"You Should Only Talk to People on the Internet if You're Being Culturally Insensitive"

Unfortunately this doesn't matter in the real world. In some ways these policies make it worse. You can't get rid of your boss's racism by forcing them to hire you.

 

oh boo hoo? you mean like boo hoo I'm offended this person isn't in a constantly pissed off state on my behalf? Other racists exist, and I'm not apologizing on their behalf, so spreading hate and misery is totally okay, after all, I'm only white, so it doesn't count! It's totally okay to judge people because of how other people have treated you, let's just spread hate and misery, because that's totally better, let's just cling to every thing that makes life harder, and what's more, let's measure all of these things and use them to gauge who has the RIGHT to be unhappy with how they were born!

 

Forcing you to take a stand on one side or the other is the point. You being indifferent is a good reason for upset.

You claim to want to be rid of prejudice but ignore the prejudice right in front of you.

There are two viable options for you. When you are given a privilege due to your race, demand to be treated equally as badly as people of other races. Or, demand that those of other races be treated equally as well as you. In either case you must cause yourself suffering. You can't care about racial prejudice and do nothing about it.

Which is it?

 

I demand people treat others equally
I don't want people dragging people they view as "more privileged" down to their perceived state of injustice, I want people working together towards reaching a new high standard
and whether people like it or not, every year that passes things get better
being racist isn't helping it though
perpetuating fear, making excuses? that holds us back
you're always throwing quotes around, so I wish I could remember the phrasing of the one I'm thinking of, but
something about like
fools never forgive
fools always forget
a wise person forgives but does not forget

 

The way you've been talking, it looks like your demands are that we stop acknowledging the oppression that exists, not that we recognize it for what it is and call it out.

Or worse, that you are more concerned by the backlash on indifferent white bystanders than you are about the oppression of PoC itself. That is definitely a racist standard.

 

uh... how
every post I made, I said it's not okay to be a dick to someone for any reason
denying there are problems is ridiculous, but making more problems isn't really productive

 

Between standing against anti-PoC racism and standing against the backlash, which do you devote more energy to? So far all I've seen you do is try to justify inaction.

Note: Equal energy isn't good either because one of them is far less harmful than the other.

 

This thread is..... Arright.

You'd think it'd be a simple end when you realize you can't accidentally be sexist. You can't accidentally hate people and not know it. Like, old people who're from a different time and still love black people. They don't hate those people, they just know and are used to different words.

But whatever, if he wants to say cunt even though some people will yell at him for it, let him. He has to deal with people being offended by what he says or he has to change his lexicon up so he doesn't offend people. It's pretty simple.

I just don't engage if someone says a word that offends me usually. I'll get too into it (you think I get into it here...) and they usually didn't mean what I took from it. If they did, they're already sad enough that I can't find the patience to argue with them

 

@A Zebra

The point I'm getting at is that you put all of your effort into defending yourself or playing the devil's advocate.

When we said, 'PoC are oppressed and some of them would like to reclaim the n word as a display of throwing off their shackles', you said, 'That doesn't mean they can judge people for being white'.

Who judged white people? Looking back, I'm not sure what you're reacting to. Judgment of people doesn't have anything to do with reclaiming language.

Given the bizarre reaction to the what's been said, you seem to have some pent-up resentment regarding this topic.

 

I don't really know how much more insulting is the c word in this or that country, but if the person was upset by it, it was probably because he/she was american. It amazes me that this cultural phenomenon also happens between english speakers, the thing about internet/games is that most people are EUA-centric so their values are taken into account before everyone else, that is why they won't be happy if you start speaking other languages. Most people end up talking in english due to the facility of having one language for everybody, but it sure is a pain to have to abandon some of your own culture in favor of others, and still respond to the "internet police" if you trespass too much.
I can imagine this situation with Spanish though! (even though my mother language is portuguese!)The word "coger" means "catch", but only in Argentina it means "to have sex with", so I would not use coger in Argentina, but even if I did they probably would laugh a bit, than we would explain eachother and continue our lives... that should be the case of the c-word (IMO), If there is no intent on it as it is on US, there is no need to reprend it (without sound like a dick).
In Brazil, we have one equivalent to the C-word, but there is no taboo like in US, even though there were slavery, the intent of your speach will tell if you are being a racist or not, exemple: You CAN say the "name of the color", of the skin, you can't however imply some poor judgment of the person because of it, like comparing with a animal, like a monkey (that is close to humans, but not so much "evoloved"), the color for itself doesn't contain any value intrisic to it to be offensive.

 

Read the thread hours ago & forgot what the other posts said, but I agree with the notion it's probably best for your friend to try to avoid using it in videos open to the public eye like that. The point I belieeeeeeeeve Misty was trying to say earlier, (as I said, forgot what everyone else was sayin'), was that you have to be mindful of who it is you're around when you say certain things. For public venues like YT videos, you never really know who your audience is going to be composed of and it should be something people keep in mind; even if it is casual language between buds or culturally accepted in your area doesn't mean it's acceptable to everyone else, especially on a plane as open & diverse as the Internet. If no one asks about it or says "this makes me uncomfortable," that's one thing, but if people do step forward and do say it's something that makes them feel uncomfortable/unsafe/etc., we should be mindful & try to respect that wish even if it is just that one person.

In cases where things are private and only you/other people who defined it as okay to say & use, I don't think it really matters to have a filter because...no one in that private setting cares. v: One of my friends and I call each other "*****" pretty liberally in friendly banter/conversations (she much more than I do), because we've defined we're both comfortable with that and only do it when we are talking on the phone or by ourselves. If we're in a public setting, I wouldn't use it because of how it could effect passerbys (and, tbh, I've mostly removed "*****" from my vocabulary outside of very rare cases where no other words come to mind at that time -- even then it's never verbalized).



re: reclaiming words & poc as a term

I see the benefit of reclaiming words and think it's fine, though I will not lie when I do hear people saying "*****" & whatever whenever I'm out & about. My brother says this a lot and while I'm mostly used to it, I do still say "yo cool down dang." Even my mom has told him to cool it with using it as much as he has, lol.

IN regards to the phrase "people of color" though, people probably already know I am like...the least fan of it, lol. I really don't like it because it just seems incredibly lazy to me. Like, someone was trying to figure out a way to get away from "majority/minority," took "colored people" off a sign from the 60s and said to themselves "switch these around & add a preposition BOOM EVERYTHING IS SOLVED!"

This isn't to mention the fact that "colored people" as a phrase was used to oppress black people along with ******/***** back before & during the civil rights movement, and while we certainly can (and apparently, have) reclaimed it, there are still people alive from those days who it can be pretty weird for to see white people (and people in general) throwing it around w/o a filter. I've been so tempted to ask my parents & my grandma especially what they think about it, and I really should some day. Like I said, this does go back into the reclaiming words debate and that's just where I stand with this particular phrase.

also, y'know:


at the base understanding of things, the commonality between people that aren't white is that they've been oppressed by white people. the racial oppression faced by black culture at the hands of white culture are different than those faced by people from indian culture, or iraqian culture, or korean culture, or native american culture. even in just looking at just america, black people were slaves, japanese people were put in internment camps, native americans were rounded up and shoved into tiny reserves. yes we are all oppressed, but those forms of oppression are distinct from each other and the experiences within them are radically different from one another when you get to the details.

while "people of color" does stand as a stance of solidarity and is now the accepted term in discussion and academic discourse, it does generalize and, unless specifically looking at a certain culture, does almost erase the fact that oppression amongst these cultures is very different. i accept the fact that this is The Term for right now and i can't argue it for now, but i do hope that a better term comes along sooner or later because this one grinds my gears almost as much as "minority" did, lol. :L

 

I' m not a big fan of political correctness. I' m fine sticking with it in political settings, but that' s about it. People using slurs (intentionally or not) is a symptom, not a cause, swapping dictionaries around won' t address the actual root problems one bit. When in Rome, sure. When in Australia ...

I' m not about to use nigga as a synonym for pal anytime soon, but I see it for what it is when I stumble upon it. Words are just tools, if you' re gonna go all death of the author on me and show no interest whatsoever about my actual intent you' re just wasting my time.

From what I' ve read (but don' t quote me on that) the word "atheist" was initially invented as a slur. Etymologically speaking it' s actually very fitting, so atheists were a little confused by that move. Well anyway, they' ve reclaimed the word without forbidding anyone to use it.

Attraper and choper (French for coger) can mean both, but it' s pretty easy to tell which one you had in mind based on the context alone.
Gotta catch' em all ! ^^

 

Out of curiosity, how would you stand on, for example, a black comedian telling jokes that it would be wrong for a white person to tell, but having those jokes written by a white person? Is it okay because they're being told by a black person or bad because the person who came up with them is white? Or is it okay for the black person to tell them even though it was wrong for the white person to write them despite the fact that the black person paid him good money to do so?

What if I'm among black friends who want me to use their vernacular because they prefer that I not, "talk like a white person?" I wouldn't want to be friends with people who expect me to do that, but the point still stands.

What if I'm using the word to specifically refer to the word, perhaps in an academic context? For example, I may be writing an essay on offensive language where my thesis statement is, "No matter who says it, the fact is that words like "******" and "******" are slurs and any attempts to "reclaim" them serves only to further the harm they do to the groups they were created to oppress." I won't say whether or not I believe this statement, but I feel that this is a valid use of the term no matter who you are.

What if I'm in court as a witness to a crime and am told to repeat exactly what I remember hearing the culprit say at the scene of the crime? Being white, would I really have to commit perjury by telling the court that the culprit's exact words as I heard them were, "I'm gonna kill you, n-word!"? This is a pretty unlikely scenario, but I still feel like it would be more acceptable to use the exact words rather than censoring it to avoid offending the court.

Could you clarify what you mean here? I feel like I might be missing a big part of your point because I can't tell what this is supposed to mean in the context of the rest of the sentence.

This is the correct viewpoint. If you simply assume that everybody is a bad person until you get to know them, it is impossible to succumb to racial bias. Yes, it is that simple. That way it doesn't matter if most of the people I mug bait are black because I'm still treating them in the same way I do on the rare occasion when the victim is white.

 

Thank yooooou Plums for posting this, particularly the bits about "people of color" as a term because I know you don't like it and never really knew why -- like you said it's kind of the term at the moment so I don't think it can be avoided entirely but still.

Since it's not coming from a black person in a way I don't feel entirely comfortable with it. I'm white though so I'm not sure it's my place to say, since whether or not black people should be okay with these things should probably come from an actual black person. That said, the scenario actually reminds me a little bit of this, which is a great read (John Cho on Harold & Kumar):

http://withthepilot.tumblr.com/post/51320248001/what-i-recall-from-the-harold-and-kumar-movies-is

Again, I'm not black so I don't think it's my place to say. However, if your black friends say that it will not bother them for you to use that word then I'd be inclined to say it's alright when and only when you're amongst them and referring to them.

In an academic context I do think it's more acceptable since you're discussing the word and not using it. However, if everyone knows what you're talking about then, as a white person, it's probably better for me to just refer to it as 'the n-word.'

Like the academic context, you're not using the word yourself.

I meant that, if you are in favor of the word being reappropriated, then you feel only black people can use it. If you are not in favor of the word being reappropriated, then you don't feel anyone can or should use it.

 

Y'all niggas need to relax

 

I grew up with no white friends. Seriously, except for half (not most, half) of the kids at school, everyone in my life was minority, generally black. "*****" was a reoccurring word in my vocabulary. I never thought anything of it until middle school when, coincidentally, one of my longest friends warned me that some people wouldn't realize where I grew up or that I wasn't white (HISPANIC IS A RACE, GODDAMN IT...but I don't look Hispanic evidently). Although, I never really stopped saying it. Even to this day, I say it to black people, white people, my cats, and my girlfriend and honestly, she hates it more than they do. Granted, it's a word that I was always thought "isn't okay for white people to say;" I didn't identify as "white," and no one ever raised an objection to me saying it. I don't use it to everyone; I consider it part of my casual language so if I won't cuss around someone, then I wouldn't say it (though I restrain myself more from swearing than I do saying *****)- such as with my customers. And honestly, the only thing anyone has said to me (aside from girlfriend, but she was raised racist anyway) is that they "love that say it" -one of the new hires at work and he's black.

I'm not using where I grew up as a justification for me saying it, but it's the way it happens. The line isn't as definite sothat black people can say it, but may choose not to and white people can't say it at all. Obviously, this isn't included quotes or songs (honestly, don't censor that. You quote it, then say it), but intentionally saying it about someone or to someone else. I mean, yeah, used with a racist definition is bad; but that's not how I generally hear using it. I mean, yeah, you can just say the "n-word," but

.

tl;r:
-I'm seeing a lot of "I can't say for sure because I'm not black and only black people should decide, but here's what I say is socially acceptable."
-Words change and some really horrible words lose their negative connotations? Is that bad? Maybe "*****" becoming a word that has nothing to do race in the future is the word being re-appropriated by the black community and this is a step in that direction?...or we can just keep the word set to one race.
-I think "c*nt" is a beautiful word.
-It's perfectly fine (and, in my opinion, socially preferable) to censor yourself to avoid someone being offended if you know that they will be offended by what you would have said, if you respect them. I don't think we should have to preemptively censor ourselves before we know someone is offended by it because some things aren't offensive unless someone is actually offended.

I don't know if this makes sense. I'm a little high right now.[DOUBLEPOST=1411942629][/DOUBLEPOST]

Nigga, please.

 

Really? I thought it was an ethnicity. I guess I don't quite understand the difference yet.[DOUBLEPOST=1411951476][/DOUBLEPOST]

I don't think you actually believe this, but you're presenting this argument as if the only racial disparity is between the group we call "white people" and the group we call "PoC." So are all PoC races equally oppressed? If you think so, that's a pretty ignorant statement on its own. If you just look at American society, you'll see that Asian Americans have a lot of racial privilege over black people, who have similar racial privilege over Latinos.

As for me, I look for real ways of fighting racial prejudice because I understand that it hurts everybody, even the group that does the oppressing and nothing short of abolishing racial prejudice will change that. Is that racist? Of course it is. Will it still accomplish the same goal? If it goes correctly, yes. Why should my reason for stopping racial prejudice have anything to do with my desire to do so? Good intentions are good intentions no matter how bad the reason for them is.

 

I do not believe this and I am not presenting it. This discussion centers around the n word so that is where my discussion lies. I have no desire to diverge further.

 

Whether or not you intended to present it that way is irrelevant. It's pretty easy to interpret it that way and I usually expect you to be more specific when you mean to be. The message is good, the presentation was confusing, so thanks for clarifying. What threw me off was that you used the term "PoC," which refers to all non-white races rather than just the group we call "black people."