Kingdom Hearts II Xemnas...

So , the thought is close to being right or isn't?

 

It's close to being right.

 

Xemnas and Ansem SoD are spawned from the combination of Terra and Master Xehanort; Terranort. So in the sense of what you said, yeah.

 

I prefer calling him Apprentice Xehanort actually. Terranort isn't even a real name. Just made by some random person. But yeah, that's obviously who I meant.

 

But i thought Aprentice Xehanort was Terranort

 

Ah, okay. Then I can't help you. DX

Technically, but it's easier calling one Terranort and the other Apprentice Xehanort. Terranort refers to the MX with memories in Terra's body, the other one is...obvious. :3

 

Ah , apprentice Xehanort is the one without memories and Terranort is the one with memories , This is confusing

 

Haha, Nomura likes doing that, I suppose. :]

EDIT: I just had this weird thought. What if Apprentice Xehanort somehow became his own person? If not, wouldn't Xemnas be Terra's Nobody, since he's made from Terra's body (no body. Nobody. lol)? Kind of getting confused (yet again).

 

Yes , noruma likes to blow our minds open...

i think aprentice xehanort is his own person , actually no , he's got MS heart but terra's body , just no memories ,
xemnas is basically Terranorts nobody , MS'S heart was turned into Ansem , but it was Terra's body.

 

so are we all agreed that Xemnas and Ansem SoD is acctually a fusion of both Terra and Master Xehanort together and not like MX's Heart and Terra's Body?

 

It's possible that it's divided neatly, such as into Terra's body and Xehanort's heart, however that doesn't make sense for some actions, such as how Xemnas was seen talking to Aqua's armour.

Then you've got to figure out where Eraqus is in this messy equation.

 

Alright, day late and a dollar short so to speak, but here's my thoughts on this. BTW things start getting really confusing here, fair warning.

First off how heartless and nobodies are born is important here. I had a thread that argued this stuff for a while so I think I've got this straight now (if anyone wants to ask questions or ague this I would prefer moving it to VM/PM, but I always enjoy those discussions). In KH a person is made up of three components; the Body, the Heart, and the Soul. When a heart is removed from a person's body the darkness from that heart takes the form of a heartless. More darkness means a stronger heartless; and if there is no darkness in that heart there is nothing to transform. Emblem heartless get tricky but it doesn't seem relavent here since we aren't looking at specific type, simply heartless as a whole. When a heart is taken it leaves behind a body and soul. In the case of no heartless being made this simply appears as an eternally sleeping body (Kairi and Ven being the only known cases of this). When a heartless is created from a person with a strong heart, the body and soul are sent to another world to be born as a nobody. In time the body fades and you are left with only the soul. And as an added note, a Sentiment is also just a soul, but it is not a nobody.

And now if we look at the events surrounding Terranort, various pieces can interpreted in multiple ways thus still leaving us with few answers. When Master Xehanort removed his own heart to place it in Terra his body vanishes, initial thought of course being that a nobody is made here. However no heartless appears to be made, we see his still complete heart enter Terra. So we have evidence both supporting and denying if a nobody was made here. And as if to enforce this uncertainty we have Terra's Sentiment. A soul being divided isn't uncommon in KH so it could be that Terra's soul is present in both Terranort and Terra's Sentiment, but it could just as easily be that Xehanort's soul got put in Terra's body and Terra's full soul became the sentiment.

Moving on we have Terranort as Ansem the Wise's apprentice without memories. The lack of memories seems to be due to the conflict of the two hearts since that is where the memories are stored. In Blank Points we see Terra and Xehanort's hearts discussing what would befall them the dialoge appears "MX: As I recall, you couldn't even handle your own darkness. How, then, will you triumph over mine? Terra: You'll find out soon enough. MX: Oh? So that's how it is, is it? Someone else has set foot in your heart. Eraqus, you sly fox..." What exactly Eraquis did is uncertain. Many people believe that Eraqus's heart is also also present here but I'm not so sure. Eraqus's presence should have been apparent to MX from the beginning, and we see Terra change drastically when MX enters but we don't see anything of that nature when Eraqus would have done the same. Just wanted to point out that there is a factor in this whole mess that is blatantly stated that we don't know it.

Bit farther down the timeline Terranort and the other apprentices are experimenting with hearts and particularly darkness. They create the first emblem heartless and become heartless themselves. And as it so happens everyone of them made the cut into being a high class nobody, go figure. Now when someone willing removes their heart the heartless retains a sense of self, or in other words the heartless holds on to a piece of the soul. Thus Ansem SoD not being a mindless heartless like the hoards you normally fight. Although it is hard to prove, it seems to me that Ansem SoD iand Xemnas are the heartless of and nobody respectively of both Terra and MX simultaneously. My major point of evidence is the memories of both of them. Both of them, but especially Xemnas, present themselves similarly to how Terranort was as an apprentice. Were they to be distinctly from Terra or Xehanort's heart then they would see themselves as that side.


tldr We don't know exactly what the hell is going on with them.

 

Alright so, Terranort = Apprentice Xehanort.
Ansem SoD + Xemnas = Terranort = Apprentice Xehanort.

Isn't that all the original question was asking?
(did I get it right?)

 

nice theory but one major flaw Kairi even though no Heartless was created Namine a Nobody was!

That was really the main question cos Xehanort as an apprentice was made up of Terra's body controlled by Master Xehanort's Heart so isn't Xemnas acctually Terra's Nobody

 

Is it really proven that the soul can be divided? I mean, last I heard, Lingering Sentiment was either a manifestation of pure will power or pure rage. Just wondering; I may have skipped it by accident... :|

I'm so sorry. I just get so confused with these things. :|

 

Oh, but there was a heartless. It simply wasn't her darkness. When Sora became a heartless it created two nobodies. Roxas and Namine. Because of this Namine is a "true non-being" existing as "but the most fleeting of shadows" according to Ansem the Wise.

Well it is not directly stated, but if we combine two points it is one hell of an implication. When Terranort sees Terra's Sentiment he says "Your body submits, your heart succumbs--so why does your mind resist?" He is listing off the parts of Terra but instaid of saying "soul" he says "mind" which means that to him the two are the same thing and that it is represented in the Sentiment. And based off of the plot he was able to pull off I'm pretty sure he knew what he was talking about. And it does make sense. Most heartless don't have a soul and they run purely on instinct; where as all nobodies do have souls and they are able to think (in 358/2 days we see even basic dusks performing basic recon tasks).

Then if you take that and look back to the Secret Ansem reports in Report 10 he notices that heartless were generally mindless, but not all of them. Sora and Ansem SoD both retained a mind as a heartless. Ansem the Wise then suggests that it is becuase they willingly released thier hearts. But even if you don't agree with him on how, you can't contend that it happens. I mean look at the character set up in CoM. From Kairi, Sora, and Ven, we end up with those three still intact and then add on Namine and Roxas. 3 =/= 5 so something obviously happened there. A division, a duplication, or something else, I can't be sure. But obviously this does not need to be 1 soul per being.

 

No, Xemnas is the Nobody of the mix of Master Xehanort and Terra. Because it's Terra's body, and his hear and the Master's are both inside that body.

 

with all the threads you guys have been answering for me I admit your ideas acctually sound more likely than mine so thanks you have helped clear that up nicely for me :D

 

So in short;

Lingering Sentiment = Terra's soul (part)
Namine = soul (part)
Roxas = soul and body..?
Sora = intact
Kairi = intact
Ven = intact

It's just a bit weird. Sora, when he became a Heartless, created two Nobodies because of two hearts, that being Namine and Roxas. Why would Apprentice Xehanort only have one? Again, I may have overlooked/skipped something... :|"

 

maybe he has made two and maybe that will be why Yen Sid hadn't located Terra's heart by Re:Coded