Why is What Makes a "Strong" Female Protagonist SO Complicated?

I sent corrections to a mod because a typo in there told us to cause trouble and as much of it as we can. Mighta been Ashwin

 

How cute, he thought it was a typo.

 

I just remembered one of the best female characters I've seen in a video game:

Spoiler

Heather Mason

• She's not a tomboy, because she clearly enjoys shopping (you first find her in a mall, she refuses to put her hand in a toilet for what could be an important item, her gender is very important for the story, etc.)
• She's not a blank slate badass, because she clearly reacts in ways that don't constantly display dominance of the situation she's in, instead, she's expressing emotions that most of us would also express in similar situations.
• She's not a static character, because the events that occur in the story affect Heather and change her into a stronger character, both in her constitution and her ability to fight back against the world she's put in.
• She's not boring, because she likes to make jokes and insult other characters in the story, but not to a point where the story becomes a satire, and thus she feels that she still fits in the game's world.
• She's not fan service, because she's not put into situations that give her a submissive personality while displaying her body.
• SHE'S JUST A COOL CHARACTER WHO COULD TOTALLY EXIST

 

on another episode of i didn't mean to essay at 3 in the morning;

I kinda disagree. I think anyone is capable of creating a strong character regardless of that character's sex/gender, since it has been done before and, even though it's not at the AAA level, continues within the indie sphere and indiesque games.

One of the main themes of Transistor, which was designed by a prominently male team with the exception of Jen Zee [art] and Ashley Barret [vocals], is the main female protagonist's agency, and how even the player themself has control ripped away from them in certain very key moments to emphasize who is in control between the two.

Child of Light (oddly enough by Ubisoft montreal tho, and the guy who wrote it is pretty chill from his AMA on the game) tells the story of a young girl which, while simple due to the fairy tale atmosphere of the game and its story, are still endearing and still highlight her maturation through the events she has to overcome and accept.

Undoubtedly, I do agree it probably is easier for women to create female characters, as they are more equipped to knowing how to invoke tropes to support their female character, rather than use said character to support the tropes. Male writers I feel can similarly do it, they just need to take a step back first and really think about what qualities their female character has and how it is that this character is expressing them before moving forward (and vice versa for female writers writing male characters).

That said, I do still think there should be a lot more female developers within the gaming business. They (and just new talent in general) are something I think a certain company developing a certain game series a certain forum is centered on sorely need, given its latest three attempts at a 'strong' female protagonist. :b Having more female devs will be good because women are very misrepresented in the gaming world (and other groups but the topic is currently laydeez) despite being a good half of the population. Female devs will very much speed up the needed progressive changes currently happenign within the industry, and I know that they can help in getting out a steady and well appreciated stream of non-white male protagonists in every single game (a few is fine, 80% of them is not).

But I do think that these current developers are fully capable of making interesting female characters this very minute; they just need to start taking their time and actually think about what it is that they're doing with these characters and giving them a chance, whether it be a main role or even just a side role, to be someone.

 

what are girls

 

If you cut out licensed games based on movies, TV series and such, games where you can choose to play as a man or woman and 2D games (where it's even hard to tell if you're playing as either a man or woman half the time, I mean Ms Pac Man? Really, that's a woman in gaming to people, are they effing mental? It's a yellow circle with lipstick and a bow! that's like saying Koopa Troopas are men!) I'd be surprised if they got a list of over thirty games there. They also missed a sizeable amount of women, some of which were included on the static image...
But I've said this before. Inclusion doesn't mean anything like it did twenty years ago. Today, we're arguing for good female representation, not just any representation at all.

Yeah, those were the days when if you encountered a bug twenty hours into a game you were effed, restart the whole game? No thanks, I ain't playing all that bull again. Guess that was a waste of money. Or you'd rely on the community patching the whole thing. Actually, nothings changed on the PC in the last 40 years.
Also, who really buys that many DLC, honestly? Uniformed consumers, and they can never tell the difference between good stuff and bad. It's why we're lumbered with the reams and reams of bad DLC content. But when we called them 'expansions' and they came on discs? Oh we loved em, couldn't get enough of them. The Sims fans were overjoyed to add dammed Pets to their game and no mistaking.
I can't remember my point...

I can't agree. No one says people can't write well what it's like to have a child if they've never had one, or complains at JK Rowling for not being able to write a boy's experiences well. Being a good writer means being a good empath, if you can sympathise, see through eyes of another well, then you're halfway there. The rest is about good imagination and putting a bit of yourself into the work. I mean if being a woman meant writing better women, we wouldn't have 50 Shades or Twilight characters of epic flatness or terrible reflections of women.

 

girl
gərl/
noun
plural noun: girls

1. 1.
   a female child.
   synonyms:female child, daughter;More
   schoolgirl;
   lass, lassie
   "a five-year-old girl"
   • a person's daughter, especially a young one.
     "he was devoted to his little girl"
     synonyms:female child, daughter;More
     schoolgirl;
     lass, lassie
     "a five-year-old girl"
2. 2.
   a young or relatively young woman.
   synonyms:young woman, young lady, miss, mademoiselle;
   ingénue;
   lass, lassie;
   informalchick, gal, grrrl, babe;
   literarymaid, damsel
   "he settled down with a nice girl"

 

Alas, the boys have disagreed with me, lol.

Sure, anyone can write a good character. I'm definitely not saying that there aren't people who aren't women can write women I can relate to. But I think being personally connected to your created characters makes it all the more genuine and something special.

Also, I am well aware of women in the indie scene and being a far better representation there. Naturally, I'm thinking of bigger companies, which unfortunately has a glass ceiling made of diamonds.

As for those books you mentioned about, I'm not really a reader so I can't really say anything on that. But I'm pretty sure there are plenty of far more superior female writers out there that don't have that financial success recognition because their books weren't/going to be turned into Hollywood films (of course, being produced by male dominated studios).

 

Heh, basically this. I mentioned it because Natsume printed hundreds of thousands of discs because they were all "..Hey what if we let people play as a girl in "Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life." Just funny to see. Off topic, but PERSONALLY I buy A LOT of DLC. No filler crap, but if it rewards me with something cool or it's part of the story, I get it. I'm just so tempted to make my own complete versions of the games to have on a harddrive forever and I do not resist that temptation. Is a lot of it guff? Yep. Are there cases where I buy the DLC and accidentally don't play it because it's so unnoticeable? Ask me about the sewer DLC in Rage sometime. But yeah, I like DLC. I wish it was on the disc from the get go and I didn't have to buy crap to get it. I wish it didn't start this trend of wait a year and get the same game re-released cheaper with double the content, but that's what happens when you realize CRAP! THIS STUFF ISN'T PERMANENT! and when you realize people who want your game may not have internet access.[DOUBLEPOST=1403111540][/DOUBLEPOST]

Goood. Choiiiice.

You know who I think is a good character, gender aside? Sylvia. Yeah, from No More Heroes.... HEAR ME OUT.... WITHOUT SPOILERS. She's playing a very large role in that whole assassin organization and using her gender as a means of manipulating the big dude with the lightsaber to go on a killing spree and HE'S PAYING HER TO DO IT. She's basically in control of this whole bombastic situation and just using her assets in a way that gets everyone to play her game. PLUS SHE TAKES YOUR MECH IN THE SECOND GAME BECAUSE FUCK YOU, SHE WANTS IT

Obviously she's no Liara, Lara Croft, Ellie, Lady, Heather, etc in terms of a womanly role model.... But she's a character (not an object, not something the player can ever grasp- she's a character with personality, goals, agendas, friends, hobbies, likes, dislikes), and a good one. There's nothing about her that isn't justified- she's just crazy and greedy. I'm almost tempted to even call her a satire, but it's Suda so in his mind she's probably a metaphor for fried chicken.

 

I might agree if you're saying female specific biological things, such as describing child birth or lactating or something, if you wanted accuracy which may be more sympathetic to some readers, but everything else is fair game. If we're talking specifically about fiction, of course, because they generally don't need to be accurately written, just well written.

Indie scene's a mixed bag too from what I've seen. I mean if you ever got a chance to look in the indie marketplace on Xbox Live, the women in there were most all sexed up, to strip for you or to be scantly dressed with glossed and massive boobs. What happens when you let teens with coding ability post their gaming fantasies.

In terms of successful writers, in the UK at least, I think it's a slightly majority of men. Most of our modern writers who are famous are women, actually, they've won many of the Booker prizes and other 'prestigious' awards in the last few years.

 

Reptar, meet Amaury