Who would win Xemnas or Vader

You all prove a valid point, I must admit; although in all fairness there wasn't much wiggle room to begin with. lol BUT, for further arguments sake, the main fact that vader can get tossed around like a rag doll, and still survive is a testament to his endurance. Also, his apprentice is also a testament to him being a good teacher. In the beginning of Force unleashed, you play as Lord Vader strolling through the Kashyk(sp?) world killing wookies with ease. He displays the following force abilities: Force push, Lightsaber through, and this ability I think called Force wave or w/e(Basically he does a DBZ thing where he unleashes the force from within and cause a giant 360 shockwave to envelope the surrounding area.

Going Nerd now.

Now, not to (pardon my language here) BS my way through this, but we're talking about two distinct characters in their own Universes with its own theology and physics. If you put Xemnas in the Star Wars world, just how powerful would he be? If you put Vader in the Kingdom Hearts Universe, just how well will his abilities be amplified? What if we put the two in...let's say...the Soul Caliber Universe where basically everyone is on equal fighting terms more or less? I believe these are all things we must put into account.

What I'm trying to get at is, we're comparing two very different characters where they truly shine in their own universes. Saying Xemnas is better than Vader is like saying Coke is better than Pepsi. They both kind of taste the same to me, albeit with their small difference in flavor, but ultimate they're the same thing.

K done nerding out. lol

 

The thread is fine here, as we're talking primarily about Xemnas's Kingdom Hearts II form. If you'd like to expand the thread/poll to other characters, @O13 Follower , you can, or you can make a thread with new matchups (e.g. a Mickey vs. Yoda) within Kingdom Hearts Extras.

That said, I agree with @Hexin -- they're too very different universes so it's hard to compare. Xemnas is a compelling option since he does have a wider range of abilities as y'all mention, but the Star Wars universe is a little more realistic than Kingdom Hearts. The Jedi are focused on swordplay and the Force. Anakin in particular is a Jedi Guardian, who are especially focused on their swordsman abilities. I think if you planted Xemnas and Vader and only allowed them to fight with their lightsabers (Ethereal Blades, I know. They're lightsabers), Vader would win. Xemnas's other abilities give him the edge, though.

On a less serious not, I want to vote for Vader just because I love Star Wars, but I also love KH... it's like making me select which I love more. [ panicked breathing ]

 

I'll try to keep this brief because I feel like all my posts on this forum are extremely lengthy. Xemnas would obviously win.

Not only does Xemnas have more of a variety of abilities, but also has more fluidity. Under his armor, Vader is a burnt up old man. His mask has needles that pin into his face which send neural messages to the armor, meanwhile his shoulder plates weigh around 12 kg. This makes it hard for him to move around under his armor. His armor, which is made of durasteel and obsidian, reflects blaster bolts. However, blaster bolts are made of electricity/laser light photons. Xemnas' Ethereal Blades are made of nothingness, therefore making Vader's armor useless. Not only that, but Vader's armor is basically a life support system. Without it he dies so it's as if he's not wearing armor at all. Because of his entire body being burned up, Vader's senses are also severely damaged. This puts him at a severe disadvantage to Xemnas. Vader's spine is also replaced with artificial bones.

Xemnas is able to fly, teleport, and do tons of flips. Facing Vader would be like a monkey against a rock. Xemnas can also drain Vader's energy. Vader won't be able to hold those 12 kg shoulder plates with very little energy. He can also clone himself and significantly outnumber Vader. Compared to Xemnas, Vader's like an AppleBee's waiter or something.

I think a good match up would be Xemnas vs Aizen (from Bleach), or Xemnas vs Sephiroth.

 

Yours aren't that lengthy DaSpade101 but I understand your concerns, but now refering Hexen's post, Xemnas would still be close to all powerful because all he needs for his powers to work is nothingness and you try finding a universe without nothingness, I am not entirely sure about this next part so correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the force only work in areas where there are other Miti-clorians or how over you spell it. Actually DaSpade101 I know a place where a Xemans vs Aizen battle exists Although I personally would wonder Zexion vs Aizen, to tell you all now I made a Micky vs Yoda post in KH extras a couple of days ago in the KH extras section

 

That's a compelling argument, but like I said Vader has the force a his side which has been proven to be used in the most of creative of ways throughout the series: spin off books, games, shows, etc. On the topic of Midi chlorians, those are microscopic lifeforms that symbiotically live within living cells, meaning the cells in our own body, plant life, etc. Now as pointed out in Kingdom Hearts BBS, it's not hard to move around armor... lol Heck, with the way the characters seem to defy physics in Kingdom hearts, adding Darth Vader into that mix would really bring out the bad (Pardon again) assery of the character

A good example: In Kh2, Sora and Riku are seen fighting Xemnas in the pre-final battle where all those buildings are flung at them. Riku, although well built, is able to cut clean through buildings using a keyblade.(Ex. ended)

I don't know exactly what makes a keyblade a keyblade; unless the weapon itself is literally made out of the power of light or dark, but I know a lightsaber can definitely cut through almost anything. If you place Vader in that reaction command instead of Riku, I strongly believe Vader would easily slice clean through the buildings. To further prove my point, Sora is an ordinary boy, confirmed by Nomura himself. If an ordinary boy wielding a keyblade can beat Xemnas...well...how can Xemnas beat Vader when Vader has the force at his side; which is not magic by the way.

Now, on the subject of Lightsabers, Xemnas's ethereal blades are clearly seen not being able to cut, but to just deal blunt damage. This fact is proven by the final showdown where we see Black/white coated Xemnas's swing one of the blades at Sora. Riku valiantly takes one for the team to his side, which resulted in giving Sora an opening for that devastating finisher. When Riku takes the hit, we clearly see that all it did was whack Riku on the side, not cut him.

I know Xemnas has a wide array of abilities; as already stated by a lot of you, but Vader has the force which isn't something that everyone can learn to control. To further strengthen the argument of the force being a more reliable ability rather than having set in stone abilities, the force can be used in a numerous amounts of ways to the point where if you're creative enough with it, you can definitely nearly do almost anything.

 

That is because the keyblade gave them access to the boundless strength and power in their hearts and also if an ethereal blade can't cut through it nothing can, the only time I saw a keyblade break was when Xehanort flooded Ven with darkness then dropped him from on top of a mountain and that can easily be linked to the darkness weakening his heart long enough for it to break, and after Ven broke free he blocked Vanitas's attempt to kill aqua with his good as new keyblade, also in force Unleashed do you see the people you cut with light sabers losing limbs and body parts ... No because it is a game, and a teen game no less, also ours is a E10+ game so how exactly would cutting Riku in half fit into that motif.

 

But that's the point, these are characters in a game. :/ Putting that fact aside, so far I have yet to see the ethereal blades used in any cutscene to Cut through anything.

 

No, I'm pretty sure Xemnas' weapon is more of a blunt type, despite its lightsaber like appearance. Also a lightsaber could never cut through a building flying towards you. It's too short, though I don't know about Vader using the force to throw it back. I see no way Vader could go through Xemnas' wall shield though.

 

Yeah and his ethereal blasts explode so when vader holds out his hand to stop the beams he gets a face full of Kaboom. also the Dome of lasers, at the speed they are comming at you they would peirce you even if they are blunt. also the lasers beams he fires shoot through you even when they explode so that mean that if the blade are made of the same energy they should cut through you.

 

Won't Vader's lightsaber skills block the dome of lasers?

 

yeah, maybe if he was hypersonic and it would be hard blocking lasers comming at you from every consevable direction and mutiple at once even with the force, and if he survives he will be exhausted. Also his blades are made of pure energy ... How doesn't that cut through people ... PIS or is it CIS either way

 

It's never really clear in the Kingdom Hearts universe whether weapons have cutting/slicing abilities. Many of the Keyblades we see work on a blunt force basis; Riku is one of the few characters with an actual 'sword' of sorts, that is seen slicing through things (buildings)... but when he whacks someone with it, it doesn't slice through them. I think the only time we see a person impaled or sliced is when Axel stabs Vexen in Chain of Memories. I don't think there's any kind of logic to it.

That said, within the Star Wars universe, lightsabers can cut through most things. If someone came at Vader with a Keyblade, it is possible that he could slice through the Keyblade--unless the Keyblade is a vibro-weapon (per the SW universe).

 

Vader is severely crippled and slow, Xemnas can teleport and fly, is at peak physical fitness and far more arobatic
Unless Vader could force choke him, there isn't really a contest here

 

Man I really want to retaliate, but I'm just so drained after studying for exams, then finding out they were cancelled. You'll get what's coming, Hexin

 

to the force choke comment ... Xemnas sends a building to his face, seriously I have never seen him or other sith for that matter force choke someone while fighting someone else. Now then a blunt keyblade can cut through 5-7 buildings all at once and while the wielder cut them all he ended up on the other side of the buildings before they crumbled that shows strength and durability in itself cutting through solid whatever (what is the stuff those buildings are made off, it is definately not something used ever before as a building materal). Also isn't the keyblade is as strong as its wielders heart so I don't see how even a light saber would cut through any keyblade of either the protagonist or the antagonist side of the field save maybe Ven before he became badass. refering to post 22, Xemans is skilled as a swordsman ... he is the product of two keyblade wielders and if the nobody keeping memories thing is vadid which it is then his skills would be astronomicly high

 

Please forgive this lengthy post, but I implore you to take the time to read this. Hopefully this will get my point across.

What I was trying to get at is this: We're comparing a Xemnas who clearly shines in the Kingdom hearts universe, with Darth vader who shines in the Star Wars universe. Comparing two characters who are limited by their own universes laws and physics is just...silly. Clearly Xemnas would destroy Vader because, in Kingdom Hearts, the physics is ridiculous whereas in Star Wars the physics is more realistic; assuming the force is not involved. We have people running up a skyscraper in Kingdom Hearts...A SKYSCRAPER. Come on! lol

In the Star Wars universe, the only way that could even be pulled off is with the force; I assume as it is literally the only way you can even pull off all of these cool abilities like running fast, and jumping high into the air.

S.W Vader Vs. KH Xemnas > Outcome > Xemnas winner


My P.O.V of this: If you move Xemnas into the star Wars universe, he would be bound by the LAWS and PHYSICS of the Star wars Universe. This would debilitate Xemnas's performance drastically as he is now bound by more realistic laws. He could no longer do all these flips, teleporting moves, tossing buildings aside, etc because there is no such thing as Nothingness. Since Vader is already powerful in HIS universe, Xemnas would definitely NOT win.

S.W vader Vs. S.W Xemnas > Outcome > Vader winner

Now, let's say VAder crosses over into the Kingdom Hearts universe where basically jumping up 50 feet in the air is childs play. We already have a seasoned Sith who had training in the force, and swordplay since he was but a young padawan. His robotic implants has clearly not weakened him as we clearly see him still being able to do all these great feats in the Star Wars games. Now, seeing as the force is only part of the star wars universe, I will have to say that vader could still put up a decent fight without it, albeit Xemnas would definately come out on top as Xemnas has a large array of abilities, whereas Vader does not without the force.

Note: The reason I say Vader will put up a decent fight is because Kingdom Hearts physics is just...silly. So I would assume in a battle like this, Vader would at the very least be mobile enough to do stunts.

KH Vader Vs. KH Xemnas > Outcome > Xemnas Winner.

NOW, this last part I talked it over with someone(We were nerding out about this) who shares similar views to this. If Vader were to cross over to the Kingdom Hearts universe WITH his force abilities, then we would definitely have a battle of just epic proportions. Why? Well, let's look at the facts:

On one side, we have Xemnas who has the power of Nothingness( a somewhat equivalent of the force) where he can toss buildings, use ethereal blades, shoot beams, warp into a ball of nothingness to become immune and move about, summon a large square shield to protect himself, and etc. Also, he is very acrobatic.

On the other, we have Darth Vader whom can wield the force, and wield a lightsaber. Now, let's not get hasty. A large arrays of Abilities means nothing in a fight; it just means you have more aces up your own sleeve.

What do these two have in common? Well, they have both been trained in sword fighting at a rather young age; Anakin being the youngest of the two as clearly depicted in S.W Ep.I: The Phantom Menace. We don't really have a definitive idea of when exactly was it that Xehanort started his training in becoming a Keyblade wielder, but seeing as almost everyone started in their late teens...

My deciding factors in terms of swordplay: It doesn't matter what AGE you are in sword play as Master Xehanort wrecked everyone, and Lord Sidious wrecked a group of Jedi's when they were going to arrest him in SW Ep 3: Revenge of the Sith. As a matter of fact, it's proven that the older you are, apparently the better swordsman you are due to the years of experience and wisdom. I don't remember if Terranort ever regained his memories, but if not then that kind of resets his swordplay...

Moving on to abilities

Xemnas: He clearly has a lot. There's not much to explain as I'm sure we have all played Kingdom hearts. lol...right?

Spoiler: Xemnas Battle

Spoiler: Xemnas getting real

Spoiler: Xemnas Finale

Vader: He only has the force on his side, but it can be used in so many creative ways.

Spoiler: Vader displaying his Force power in S.W universe

Now, I'm not sure if that's StarKiller or Vader...but assuming it's Starkiller, it is just a testament to how powerful Vader really is considering the old saying, "The student can only be as good as his Master."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_power

The above Link shows all the known possible ways of using the force. Examples of ways to use the force are: Force-Slow(Stop spell basically), force lightning, Force Cloak, force choke, force Maelstrom, etc.

Keep that in mind as Vader has evolved over the years since his Debut in Star Wars Ep IV. He is now being depicted as more than a mere meat bag under an iron lung. He is stronger, durable, resilient, and capable of holding his own(He is known to have the highest Midi-chlorian count)

With all this in mind, would a Vader with force powers in the KH universe(where the laws of physics are constantly rendered useless) be able to defeat Xemnas with his wide array of abilities? Be honest with yourself, and not biased because of Kingdom hearts being an awesome franchise. (I'm with you on that one.) Vader would become unchained, capable of fully unleashing his true potential as he is no longer tide down by his kind of realistic way of going on about in the S.W universe.

This is what I was trying to portray in my previous answers. I believe Vader would come out on top. There should be enough evidence in this post to hopefully broaden some views in this thread. .

"I fear not the man who has 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the one who has practiced a kick 10,000 times."
- Bruce Lee

 

The existance of Xemnas defys Kingdom Hearts physics which are basically our laws of physics with the warping that is to be expected when magic exists as well as science so why would Xemnas follow Star wars phyics also this fight takes place on earth which as far as I know doesn't exist is either universe so assuming this is true they are in a place that is bound our physics (I am sorry this is what I intended to begin with should have made that clear) so yeah both are in a field they aren't used too. I am not biased I am just not aquainted with this badass vader your talking about I only knew movie vader and when has Vader displayed the force powers that starkiller uses I have played the game and I have never seen him use anything more than force choke and push, granted Vader may have taught him how to use those abilities but we never see him use them himself ... and force slow just slows you down all it would do is make Xemnas's speed blitzs visible and he can just instinatious teleport infront of Vader then drain his life force with that those gem looking things. also your trailer is definately a starkiller feat his armor isn't as thick as vader's and when has his shoulder plates ever been shiny and if that isn't enough Vader says "You have done well my apprentace.". Also for the base Xemnas video can anyone tell me if that is creating an alternate realm to fight in or if that is just teleportation of some sort also you showed the black hole Xemnas opened up which is Beyond vader period and the only reason Sora and Riku weren't pulled in was because he wanted to kill them himself.

beginning -1:20 you see Xemnas reconfigure a crippled dragon ship, open a black hole, and warp the world around him. Also in 1:14-1:20 you can see that in his armored form he is basically darth Nihilus just an empty suit of armor then we have those light beams. Also if vader got his butt kicked by Starkiller that expression means nothing

 

It's not really fair to compare Xemnas when he's using the power of Kingdom Hearts

 

Xemnas no contest he controls all that happens in the world that never ends vader controls nothing

 

Xemnas doesn't control TWTNW. Even if he did, that just means if the fight wasn't in TWTNW Xemnas would lost that ability. And Vader does control something. The Force.