Kingdom Hearts II What did Organization XIII do wrong?

Is everybody forgetting how they tried to turn people into heartless? I think that's pretty evil.

 

Doesn't anyobdy actually realise how corrupt the organization is??? (trust me i love the group) They are all a vioelnt and cruel bunch and if one of them doesn't hate at least one other member I'm in doubt (Roxas doesn't count cos he has somewhat a heart).

be honest people I'm sure each member joined of their own will but you can't leave after joining (and Xemnas probably persuaded quite a few to join with his words).

Here's some facts that I think will explain a bit:

Xemnas was only getting a heart for himself (he used lies to make use of other strong nobodies). He tried to pit Riku and Sora gainst each other in battle and used threat tactics in his final battle.

Xigbar was really rude to Sora and was quite lazy and sarcastic in most cutscenes.

Xaldin was using beast to make him lose his heart!!! (he resorted to psycological totrue for this strategy).

Vexen hated Marluxia or at least Zexion and Lexaeus believed that (but Vexen shows glares plus he is total coward and quite pompous). Plus he attempted to murder Sora or at least expose Roxas to him (which in reality would've made Sora have a breakdown).

Lexaeus was fine with murdering Riku for their plans (quite violent no?) and he was always quiet which can be interpreted as rude.

Zexion plotted Riku's murder and instigated the manipulate Riku plan. (and I'm sure he was smiling when he tried to kill Riku with a smile Larxene herself used so many times with her sadism)

Saix was a berserker and kidnapped a helpless 15 year old girl to anger Sora (Plus he tried to kill Sora and co.)

Axel is one of the cruelest if you've played com (he pretended to be on marluxia's siode but was for the rest of the org like vexen and co. were yet he still killed Vexen when it could've been avoided plus he advised Riku rep to kill Zexion just so his story was the only convincing one) He faked death for his plan too. (he only cares bout Roxas)

Demyx was playing the goof as an emotional blanket (he was clinging onto what left of his somebody) cos he sured showed his nobody side when fighting Sora (which apeared cruel and dark).

Luxord was experimenting on heartless in port royal not giving a toss to what destruction and curses he put on the world (he also saw trying ro kill sora as a game).

Marluxia was attempting to overthrow the group so that's bad enough and he manipulated Namine into working for him and didn't care about Larxene's death really (he was more ocncerned he had to deal with Sora himself). Don't forget the Namine human shield he tried to use against Axel.

Larxene was a sadist and had fun hurting Sora and slapping Namine, plus she was very laughy about Riku rep's mind collapsing.

Roxas was in the gorup for killing heartless (he did what they wanted Sora to do orginally to help make their kingdom hearts) and he seemed like he never cared about the org at all (except Axel to an extent I believe).

Don't forget they all tried to KILL Sora and/or Riku (you say battle but if they won that's count as killing right? so they were trying to KILL them).

 

They choose to do it because it's essentially the only instinct they have. As soon as a Nobody is born, it aims to become whole again. Human beings can actually choose to stray from their instinctive nature, and do anything they want. Nobodies can't. The only ones who have ever managed to do that were Special Nobodies and regular Nobodies who are affected by them, such as Roxas, Namine, and Axel. This still means that technically, Nobodies don't have a free will.

Hate at least one other member? They might use other members for their own methods to become whole, but in case you've forgotten, a Nobody can't feel hatred. They can't feel good emotions or evil emotions. They may do things that are considered evil, but they're not evil themselves. They're technically not even alive.

And so was every other Nobody, except for Special Nobodies.

Vexen doesn't hate anyone. Nobodies are devoid of it. Vexen only wanted to get rid of anyone in his way. Is doing such a thing evil? Maybe. Is Vexen himself evil? He lacks the emotion to be evil, so no.

The game itself has stated countless times that Nobodies aren't dark.

 

Hmm, somehow i dont belive that. Yes, he wanted a haert for himself, but a lot of times he refers to "all nobodies" (for example while kingdom hearts is powering up)
and in his speech were he tries to justify the organisations actions he also says " US who thether at the edge of nothing". Also his saying that he wanted to build a new world... While some of his reasons were maybe getting power (and propably ruling his new world) i think on the whole he worked on behalf of the entire "race".


For the organization being evil, it think maybe we can use an anlogy like two men in a desert with one having water, the other not. The water is never enough for two people to survive. Could you call the man without water evil when he tries to steal the water from the other man? hardly, its that or die. but you can even less blame the first man for defending himself

 

There's no way you can prove that claim. Maybe Xemnas did want more that Kingdom Hearts had to offer, but in the game, he definitely showed genuine share that the rest will gain their hearts back. He didn't say otherwise, and even if he kept secrets to himself, he told the other simply what they needed to know. Who's Roxas, what happened to Sora, who Diz is, etc.

How did he try to pit Riku and Sora against each other? o_O Both joined in a team to destroy him. And of course, like's he's not going to do anything in battle and let himself fade -_-. By then, Sora killed most of his members, and his KH was ruined I wouldn't be joyful either, even if he can't feel such.

That's why he doesn't mind turning a member into a Dusk or something if they disobey or betray them.

Wow, so he got killed for his "personality?" He was quite rude, but he had his orders, and Sora was getting in the way. But he wasn't that horrible.

And he was pretty sad that he was fading away, if his facial expression was anythig to go by.

Again, if it makes it one more step to get his heart and to further their plans, he will do it. They are sociopaths, they can't feel. They're selfish, but not evil. Xaldin cannot see guilt.

I don't get how their personalities helps in the argument of them being evil. Is like meeting a person with the same attitude, and claiming them evil as well. Pointless. The only reason he attempted to take care of Sora was because Marluxia threatened him with the Superior.

And even when he lost, he wanted to show Sora the truth. What the hell? I don't uderstand how that could lead into a mental breakdown. The only thing Sora would've done is be shocked and search for his other self.

How are is Riku gong to work in their plans if he was trying to murder him? -_- It was more like forcing him to join them into stopping Marluxia and his maiden, because they couldn't think of another way to do it. No emotion.

Being quiet...? I'm not even going to answer this one.

Again, they weren't trying to murder him, but get him into their plans. Zexion is confident and proud in battle, that's why he was smiling. He uses manipulation, and he thought Riku would never be aware and break through the illusion. Not that he was happy at Riku's pain ala our Nymph.

He was emotionless, because that's what he felt and knew what he was and what was missing. A Berserker? He isn't one until you fight him, otherwise, he's calm, cool, and collected.

And again, Sora was getting in the way of their plans, their way of getting a heart. In their minds, that had to be halted.

All the while, Sora was following blindly going by what people told him, without forming his own opinion or belief in the long run.

True. But what did it matter? It was just a Organization that was brought together, and obviously, some might hate or dislike each other. IMO, I think he was there on Xemnas' orders, is a you die or I die situation, so going by members you don't really care nothing about, who do you choose?

I didn't kow playing the emotional blaket was a crime? And I already went through this. Demyx didn't want to fight, he was talking to Sora nicely, while all the kid was take out his keyblade, and being rude and harsh himself (sowhy isn't Sora evil?). It wasn't until Sora commented about Nobodies having no hearts that Demyx had it. Again, concerning Xemnas, he had to follow his orders (the paper) or...face consquences, marked like a traitor like Axel,perhaps,or something else.

Sora was a jerk in KH2, I don't know why people protect him.

They don't have emotion. They can't feel regret or guilt. As someone said, survival instinct. They all thrive towards one goal, to be real and feel again. What Luxord probably did, was again, under orders.

So wait. You're saying that attempting to overthrow the Org., which you claim is so evil, is a bad thing? Overthrow for Marluxia, means getting rid of Xemnas, and take the role for himself. He wanted power, more than just a heart, but you have to remember they can't feel. They can only remember, but even then, they are empty. He needed Namine for his plan, and Sora, so he had to get them.

Of course, he didn't care. He. Cannot. Feel. Sorrow. Sadness. Or regret.

You can never deny Larxene's cruel intentions, but for some reason, I feel like there was something deeper that explained it. But we never got to know her character depth.

We don't know if he cared about them or not. We never saw him interact with any of the members except Axel, so you can't say that as fact. For example, in the FM+ booklet there was a story, and Axel comes in from the mission in Castle Oblivionto his room as he explains, and Roxas plainly asks in Marluxia and the others came with him.

Roxas only left to find more about himself, and Sora. In fact, most of the members always called out to Roxas (Demyx comes to mind), and sounded upset about him leaving. Luxord, said something along the lines of "Roxas, how could you?"

I thik the Org., were trying to get Roxas back (hence, Axel's orders to bring him back), but when that didn't work, they used Sora instead to help them unknowingly.

ONLY because Sora and Rku were trying to kill them. You're telling me they won't fight to survive and stop them from disrupting their chances to get a heart? Is like you think they're going to stand by as they watch all they worked so hard for collapse.

 

Actually during the second battle he said "Sora are you sure you can trust Riku and asked Riku if he's not jeaolus of Sora. Thus meaning trying to get them to fight each other.

We also don't know what would've happen if they got their hearts back. As Jiminy's Journal said "The worlds would be in grave danger if we let him escape. Meaning that if they let Xemnas get his heart back the worlds could've explode or something.

 

yet more replies

Whoo, 6 hours of skool then back home to spend a eternity typing.[sarcasm] I Think I'll get my Nobody to do this they can't feel bordpm right? JINNEX!! "wot" Do this for me Jin, I'm gonna go watch friends. *walks off leaving Jin gawping at all the comments.* "I love how she gives me these job, not." Fine if your gonna be like that. *pushes Jin of chair and Jin walks off grumbling"

Xendane- yep, it did take me an hour, and this one did 2. I seriously need more friends. Oh, and I am stupid. In R.E, soz Philosophy and Ethics[sarcasm] I wrote and I quote "Christians belive there is only one Dog." U can't say that's not dumb.

Spike- What evendence is there of that. There's Beast. But come on, give them some credit. Wouldn't u want him 100% on your side?

califa630- Nobodies retain parts of their old persona's. So Braig was prob'ley a sarky little ... Anyway, Xemmy was genuinely after his heart and everybody elses. Also he seemed to be after praise, childlike, when he was talking to Ansem/DiZ. Seriously, if he hadn't shook his head when he was talking to him and the camera(?) was on DiZ I wouldn't of thought about it this much. I watched it millions of times while I was playing the game or watching paradies and I didn't notice. It to small to be conicdentel detail. And I think *TwilightNight* answered the rest pretty well.

*TwilightNight*- Thx 4 the help. U saved me a extra hour or two. And yeah, Sora was a jerk. I don't hate him. He did what he belived was right, it's like I keep saying he shoulda thought it through WAY more. And I belive that Demyx may of been, well not friends like Axel was with Roxas, but they knew each other quite well. Which would explain his reluctunce to fight him. And I think Luxord may of known Roxas too. Which would explain the games with Sora, he might have trouble telling the 2 apart.

UK and KH 1- The worlds exploding huh? I think that they were going on asumption that Xehanort was the same person as Xehanort's Heartless/Ansem. And let's face it, he was a bit of a nutter. But I think Xehanort himself was a very scientific person and he wasn't evil. He may of been part of the whole "Heartless Creation" thing but they (Ansem, Xehanort, Braig, Dilian, Even, Elaues and Itenzo, oh yeah I rember them. didn't spell 'em right though) thought it was for the greater good. It bit 'em on the butt though. LOL

*Jin sneaks up beheind Demitryx with Saix's clamore and hit her over the head* Oww Saix!! I told you don't let her near that! *tries to snatch it off Jin* urgh. I gotta move out. See ya next time some one answers! Give it. *Jin runs off with Demitryx close behind* "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Can't catch me!"

Cookie if you guess my real name!!!

 

XD I almost feel sorry for Saix's claymore being used so inappropriately like that! And, yeah, that is kinda' dumb, but I made the same mistake for until I reached seventh grade.
THIS MEANS I'M DUMBER THAN YOU! HA!

 

Stoopid

That unpossible.

Okay, u wanna know stupid. U know that really dumb trick people do when they tell sombody to look down a hose to see if the waters comming and then they tun it on full blast, I fell for that. TWICE!!

:stupid:​

 

IMpossible! It's IMpossible! And actually, yeah, it did happen. I just had this thing about spelling the word God so I just put Dog in his place until the teacher found out at seventh grade. The thing was I just felt like I would be struck by lightning if I wrote the name of holiness on my paper.

That trick? I look down and get hit, but then I just shrug it off and leave whoever did that staring at me completely DUMBFOUNDED.

 

I know it's IMpossible. I was trying to sound thick. LOL

Well, it was my dad who did that to me. I'm now that person for the rest of my life cause he tells all my friends.

 

(Wow, and all my dad does is embarrass me via internet!)

Let's get back on topic here, though.

 

They kidnapped Kairi.
They attacked Sora repeatedly.
And they sent heartless and nobodies into other worlds. Harming people in the process.

But, I still love them.

 

Yes, back on topic.

The blindfold unknown
They kidnapped Kairi- Axel did that when he went reagade and Saix made the most of the stiuation

They attacked Sora repeatedly- More like he attacked them. He started on poor wittle Demyx for no reason, Luxord was playing around to begin with then he was defending the castle, Saix was defending the castle (and Xemnas LOL), Xigbar was defending the castle, Xemnas was defending himself and Kingdom Hearts which he spent so long making and he went into Castle Oblivion looking for a fight.

And they sent heartless and nobodies into other worlds. Harming people in the process - They didn't send Heartless, only Nobodies. And Nobodies can do much, they can make people Heartless.

Soz for the Randomness that was Jinnex. She dosn't like me much. "You can say that again."
Sick her Sai!
*Snarl*
*Snarl*
*LittleGirlScream*
Gosh your usless. *SmacksHeadIntoHand*

 

Actually remember during Hollow Bastion they snapped their fingers and Heartless appeared? And Demyx started it in the Underworld when he stole the olympus stone He got the stone then they got his weapon first before Sora did. Saix put her in dungeon for his and their own selfish reason. And making people into Heartless is bad. Are you saying that turning people into Heartless and sending them to destroy the worlds is good?

 

1) Xemnas apparently led the experiments that helped cause the whole mess, against Ansem's orders and without any signs of remorse years later.
2)Saix was just too grabby. He seemed intelligent enough to find another way, but at the same time too sinister. He probably preferred trying to get hearts this way.
3)As mentioned, Xemnas still went against orders. Aside from that, he was doing much more harm, and his reasons for creating Kingdom Hearts were selfish ones, not noble.
4)From what was demonstrated so far, he didn't have the interests of anyone but his own, so him building a new world would not have been good for anyone.

 

Maybe the just did it the wrong way. taking other people's hearts away isn't fair you know.

 

They kept Kairi as a hostage.

 

Good thing too, because the girl can't fight. What do you think would've happened to her if she'd kept wandering around by herself?

 

Someone would so **** her..I mean >>
Well, if she wasn't a hostage? that would mean a whole different story, right?