Kingdom Hearts II Was Sora justified? *Spoiler*

Thank you. The org were rude to him first.

 

I say he is, after watching all those clips from Re: Chain of Memories and how they tried to manipulate him and kill him, it's completely understandable to me. They kidnapped Kairi, as everyone seems to be forgetting here.

 

For those of you paying close attention... I just objected as every Prosecutor in the Ace Atttoney series, barring of course Payne... as that is just embarrasing.

 

C'mon Edgey, Sora raised his weapon in defense, as he lowered it when he saw Demyx doing his kooky thing. Demyx took offense at this ignorant child's remark, and tried to drown him. It was not self defense in any manner possible. Go back to prosecuting, defense isn't your thing, Demon.

Ah, Vonnie. Saix warned Sora, yes. But didn't he then imprison Kairi in TWTNW? When Sora got there, didn't he attack Sora with heartless and "End the charade" as he so coldly put it? You forget, he then made Sora beg, along with attacking him with heartless. Considering Sora only finished him off at the end, I would say Sora was justified in his actions. In fact, I would go so far as to say that karma got him!

Wrong chord, guitar man. Riku was not referring to the heartless wave. Riku is intelligent. Riku knows that it was DiZ. Riku was talking about the whole aztec gold, Beast's heart, Olympus stone and Chinese Dragon stuff.

Their motive does not matter. This is Sora's trial, Mr Karma. *snicker* I fail to see how saying they chose a harder way is proving Sora's guilt. All it proves is that your clients went out of their way to hurt people, when there was an easier option.

I concede. They were renegades. We cannot involve them in the trial.

[/QUOTE]

 

Meh, almost all of them are murderers lol xD

If they lived in this world, they would have such a long criminal record...xDDDD

 

The thing is, COM has been sealed off. ICSP causterized the wound. They were rebels...

 

Xenmas- He deserved to die. If he did not, the very nature of Kingdom Hearts would disrupt the worlds,
and havoc would take over.

Xigbar- He confronted Sora first, so it was Sora's self-defense.

Xaldin- Sorta sketchy. He was on a mission givin to him by Xenmas,
but he seemed to "enjoy", as far as a nobody can, taunting Beast to release his anger.
Also Xaldin kidnapped Belle and the rose.

Vexen- Wasn't killed by Sora.

Lexeaus- Wasn't killed by Sora.

Zexion- Wasn't killed by Sora.

Saix- Sora broke an entry into Saix's "Home", but Saix was prepared to fight.
Despite Sora's not showing of any actual greif in just having witnessed an empty being break down and weep to a moon, Sora may have felt bad at first, but quickly changed the subject to: "Why is everybody calling me Roxas?"

Axel- Wasn't killed by Sora.

Demyx- Demyx was pushed by both Sora and Donald into fighting, because Demyx
would have otherwise run away from the fight.
Rather than an Organization member taunting Sora,
it was in fact Sora and Donald blurting such rude comments as:
"What a kook"
"I bet you can't even fight!"
"But we can!"
Demyx was forced to loose his carefree nobody nature, and fought against Sora.

Luxord- Sora broke into his "Home", but Luxord took the party by surprise, and
so forced Sora into a game-like battle.
But Luxord's cause is justified by the fact Luxord
fought Sora thiniking of him more as Roxas.

Marluixa- In so being a traitor to his own cause, and to himself,
Sora was practically allowed to kill him.

Larxene- Her *itchy nature continuously taunted Sora,
but her death is not entirely precise.
(She died two ways: Death by Sora or death by getting wet in the Manga comic book)
(You may also consider Xaldin was truely killed by a Vexen Clone, if you so wish.)

Roxas- Was not killed by anyone.

 

Yes he was, as the organization was willing to destroy innocent lives and worlds in order to get Kindom Hearts.

 

Ummm Idk lol dont ask me...

 

Nope, that wasnt his purpose at all, he was justified in seeing Kairi and Riku again, that he was:) (Man i sound like Kenshin Himura XD..LOL)

 

Heh, heh, heh...

You forget... I am prosecuting Sora. Also, you just stated yourself that, drawing your weapon is instigating a fight. Do you wish to go back on your word? If so, you recieve a penalty. If not, then you lose the case... and Demyx was killed in cold blood. Thus the "trap" I mentioned earlier.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Foolish fool. If Kairi hadn't been "inprisoned." She would surely have been parished at the hands of the Flurry of Flame himself. I would even go as far as to say, he placed her in protective custody. For her own protection.

Auctung baby! That is not what Xemnas was reffering to. Don't you remember what we were discussing her Forehead? Perhaps that somewhat oversized forehead of yours was just for looks.

Its von Karma to the likes of you. And a von Karma is perfect in everyway. If it was as simple as they wanted thier hearts back, then it would hardly be logical to conclude that they would opt to take a harder path unless they had a motive to do so. A motive which the cost was outweighed by the benefits.

(Just for the hell of it... I was going to do it if you said something dumb... but once I had the sprites I just couldn't resist...)

Proof my fiend. Did they actually kill anyone? No proof, no trial. I do have proof that he killed some of them though.

You know, it only takes one drop of cream to ruin the perfect rich blackness of this cup. We've been through this already.

Proof my fiend. Did they actually kill anyone? No proof, no trial. I do have proof that he killed some of them though. *Hate to sound redundant...*

 

Sora drew his weapon purely for protection. The taunts were merely pre-fight stuff. Once Sora thought there would be no fight, he relaxed his guard. Demyx then turned around, yelled "Silence traitor!" and attacked. At that point, Sora was not threatening him. So Edgey, prove that Demyx struck in self defense.

Oh, and it was my partner who stated that drawing a weapon was instigating a fight. I state that attacking someone is instigating a fight. After all, Sora draws the keyblade many times just to lock things. He is not fighting then.

The catch is, she did not want to be in protective custody. She was used as a lure to Sora. Saix then attacked Sora when he came to get the bait. Surely Kairi should have been passed over to Sora? Tell me, once Axel was dead, why not take her to the island? They had enough time to.
Besides, Kairi was not insane. She was able to make choices for herself. And it was quite clear she wanted to leave.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, I'm sorry your honour, I'm laughing because the prosecution has failed to acknowledge my words. Perhaps the prosecution is unconfident in its abilities to refute my statements? Either that, or Sora is actually innocent!

 

Also, how does someone kill someone in cold blood that actually enters a fight willingly and is armed? That is impossible. Sora didn't do anything underhanded in the battle. As said before, Demyx, having no emotions, could have ignored Sora's taunt and continued to run away. He did not and he engaged in combat with Sora. There is no right or wrong person in that fight. They both agreed to it mutually. Cold blooded murder would imply that Sora went behind Demyx, swung his blade and left Demyx a mess on the ground, or somehow beat the crap out of a defenseless person ultimately who was not aware the person's intents were that. Demyx and Sora both knew what they were doing.

Also, Kairi got away from Axel. Saix picked her up after and took her to the Castle Oblivion when he could have let her go. She was bait to torment Sora and that is that. Saix has no ground to stand on for what he did at all. He was manipulating Sora from the beginning. He also had every opportunity to talk to Sora and be straight out and not play mind games. There is nothing showing he had any intentions of 'helping' Sora as you like to say at all. He was very dubious by nature. I think he's cool, but really, I can't get where you don't see he was a mental sadist who was willing to play with Sora's heart merely because he had one. His own statements to Sora indicate he had no qualms about hurting a heart.

Of course, having said this, I should save some of this stuff for the court room, because much of what the dispute is can easily in any court of law be refuted.

 

So drawing a gun or pulling out a long, heavy metal key won't be considered threatening? So, if someone keeps on insulting your pride, calling you a wuss, saying you can't fight, and telling them that they're better than you, you won't be tempted to slam a fist? Okey doke....

Protection? Protection from what? While he drew his weapon when Demyx was running away, the time there in Hollow Bastion was no reason to instigate anything. Demyx had no weapon, and Sora came with no weapon. Then they started taunting and insulting him, and when they called him a wimp, and Demyx said they shouldn't judge anyone by appearance, the three of them took our their weapons to use for intimidation, and Demyx relented. That was not in defense. After, they even reminded him that he had no heart. If they kept their mouths shut, the whole fight maybe wouldn't have happened. With the ability to feel or not, Sora was obviously bullying. If Larxene and Marluxia can get charged for taunting, teasing, and putting down a Nobody like Naminé and have it justified, as well as the Organization laughing at Sora, I don't know why Demyx should be any different and get made a excuse for.

The difference is that he could've run away, but he didn't have much choice there either. It was either do it or die for not following orders, or do it...or maybe die anyway. I don't think is fair to judge without getting his train of thoughts correctly. Demyx was also in indecision, Sora didn't help matters or tried to keep it peaceful. And most of the goal was to get Roxas, or "liberate his true disposition". From what I've seen hinted in the novels, it seems he was close to him and Axel, or seemed sad every time they're mentioned, especially when he found out Axel dejected. The order was to use "aggression", not to kill, so it wasn't the order in itself that was so horrible to commit, just provide a challenge (I doubt Demyx wanted to kill Sora anyway). Boys fight and have practice fights, that didn't seem too far from it.

I don't know how is it that Nobodies work, whether they just get hit enough to fade away as they are tired or ultimately exhausted. However, we shall continue when the proper time comes, if we ever get Luxord over with. Cause I know you will have a lot to say *whistles*.

Oh, this is the funny thing. Riku replies with that, yet there's no evidence to back it it up. Xaldin went to Beast Castle, he was cruel, though that is only one, Luxord had Port Royal, and Xigbar just summoned a Heartless in the Land Of The Dragons for Sora to fight, and those were just in a specific target group that had no innocent citizens involved. That's three worlds among the probable thousands. The worlds themselves, also seemed fine, no vortex, things not disappearing, everything was in place. So where's the problem? And again, nothing in the game states that building that Kingdom Hearst was wrong (I guess we need to go back to where it was discussed in page whatever), not in the novels, not by Nomura, not by the Ansem Reports. Prove that by facts, and you're gold. What I see that is the danger is Xemnas using it, not creating, using it, which if that was the problem, they should have aimed at him in the first place. The rest were there for their hearts, and joined to get their hearts. Even Ansem's machine was made for decoding the KH into data...is not destroying, but switching up the matter. True, he didn't know what else it could do, it still was his original intention nonetheless.

Wrong. Saïx didn't attack Sora when he came to get the bait, by that point, Kairi was returned to him. Just stating it. Otherwise, I agree with the luring.

Then if their motives matters nothing to you, then you will never understand them. Which I don't care for, but is nice to know your mindset. Hurt people for fun? And you base this on only Larxene, Saïx (who I think wasn't even taking what he was doing as "fun". Aren't Nobodies not suppose to feel fun?), and Xaldin, which are their own people. If that was the case, Kairi wouldn't have been simpy left imprisoned unscathed. If they liked to hurt, she would've been hurt.

?​

No, is because you are not providing any evidence for your statements, which is what ICSP asked for. Otherwise, there's nothing to refute except your opinion that perhaps doesn't exist. Even Pika_Power said:

Point blank, they set themselves apart from the Org. and its own goal, to act on one planned by them. They weren't tied to the group any longer as they set to betray them and its leader.

.....

I think I just broke my own oath, didn't I? Fack. Call this some minor assistance ICSP, I'm heading back to darkness, and I'm just going to stay away from the thread and not read, period.

But seriously, is this ever going to end?

 

Thanks... and the only way I could see it ending is with the release of 358/2... Then the arguement will be over.

Unless the mods and admins get tired of this debate and close it down... hopfully that won't happen. As I just see a newb posting the exact same arguement within a few weeks... then it all starts over again...

*facepalm*

 

Xenmas is the only one that was really murdered with a good cause.
The others were mere pawns of him,
so I feel bad for them,
and hate how Xenmas was defeated last.

If he had been defeated first,
the Organization may have actually even have been
and ally faction to Sora.

 

I used to feel the same way. Then I really analyzed the character... and read all the Ansem Reports and the Secret Ansem Reports at once.

Now I don't think he's as bad as the game made him out to be.

358/2 will prove it...