Kingdom Hearts II Was Sora justified? *Spoiler*

In what way?

 

You and me both. I had to look up a ton of crap too. And really guys...I can't believe people went back to attacking Sora again. *rolls eyes* We won this. Sora had to do what he did. End of story. Why you keep running it into the ground I don't know but for my own sanity, I think I might avoid this place.

The court rpg is fun and all too, but it is draining, especially with such opinionated things going on. I suppose though it makes it kind of realistic. lol.

 

Note "You wouldn't arrest a soldier in Iraq, would you?" comment. XP

 

Hey, Xegreny.

Sora was decided justified as the org attacked him first, and left him with little options. This was fact. No matter whether killing them brought them back to life as somebodies, or whether they defended Hollobastion at a point, they attacked first, and never tried to explain to him.

 

I know. I was agreeing. ._.

 

I know. I was just explaining my point.

 

*Sigh*

But Sora pushed the issue so much further than dealing with the org as the attacked him. He went on a hunting spree... which cost millions of lives...

If he would have complied the calateral damage would have been reduced greatly... even more than if there was no Organizaition...

 

How did it cost millions of lives? Also, I thought he just wandered around until the org showed up and kidnapped Kairi. (In a way, Axel finished what the traitors started. Sending Sora against the org!)

 

Bye-Bye dude lololololololololol

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

YOU REVIVED THIS THREAD!
NOW ICSP AND PIKA ARE GOING TO-

oh no...

THEY'RE HERE!

*braces self for hijacking, attacking, ransacking and any other kind of "acking."*

 

Personally, I think this thread should be locked :huh:

It has already been decided that no one was justified and there's no point in arguing any longer...​

 

please follow this lady's wisdom^^^^

ICSP already put himself in detention for it...O_o

 

NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

You brought it back!!! *flees for the hills*

 

ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun forrest!!!!

alright, this is turning into spam, ill stop...

 

Actually Amber, Sora was found innocent. He will go on trial again, but in court, not here.

It seems a shame to lock it though...

Sora was innocent, as he was never given a chance to sit down and discuss until it was open warfare. The org attacked him first. They struck first. Sora was right in his handling of them.

He could have done better, but his method was legal.

 

Thats no reason to lock it. If your tired of the arguement, don't click on the thread.


However, I've already agreed that Sora was justified in destroying Org XIII, but only because of what Nomura said.

I've yet to see proof that he was justified in stoping them prematurely... also, I've yet to see anything to suggest Kingdom Hearts was going to be used with any sort of malice in its original intended use.

Edit: And please stop spamming...

 

Where was Sora stopping them prematurely...?

They went after him, ICSP. They attacked Beast, attacked him coming out of the mansion etc. They poked and prodded at him and finally he got sick of it because despite what you think about Saix etc, he was a manipulating being that was at LEAST a mental sadist. They were all doing their things to him first so in the end, why were they -bothering- him? Why were they going after Beast and why did they curse Jack etc? Sora was not out to kill them from the beginning as you accuse.

 

She had an oportunity to inform Roxas they were evil, but she refused.

We know she has some motive to not call them "The Bad Guys". But what is it? Its probably she knew they were justified.

Also, she had plenty of reason to call them "bad guys" but refused to. This can only mean that the good they could have potentially done offsets the evil they did do.

Tell me a reason she refused to call them bad guys, other than the fact that she knows that they were justified, and you win this round.

Ok... one thing about the Saix arguement... I used to not like him until I defended him in this thread. You can call him a mental sadist... however, that is not possible.

sa·dism [sey-diz-uhm, sad-iz-] –noun
1. Psychiatry. sexual gratification gained through causing pain or degradation to others. Compare
2. any enjoyment in being cruel.

Ok, now tell me again... how could someone who repeatedly said they could not feel emotions and enjoyment be a sadist? Its irrevant anyway. Don't even waste the effort answering.

Also, he only became cruel after Demyx was killed, and Sora called out the Organization, in effect, saying he would rather kill nobodies than save human lies.


Also, the Beast and Jack Sparrow cases are irrelivant.

Risking, even killing, a few lives in exchange for millions may seem cold, , emotionless, and calculated. But... would you expect anything less?


It comes down to the train discusion we had a while back... you remember the one with the trolly.

Now, is anyone truly evil for making a choice different then you? They in effect save more lives by harming the lives of fewer. I agree, that this is cold, and calculated. However, I cannot condemn that choice, as they did save more lives than were lost.


Now, tell me... do you condemn the man who made the other choice? Do you call him evil?

 

In the same way she never calls them 'good guys' either and she actually has to stand against them. Also, she and Kairi both faced off against Saix and for being 'good guys' as you profess, she's got her dukes up and when Riku shows up she says what? "Go get him, Riku!"...If they are so good and she thinks so, why is she having Riku go after Saix? She sympathized with them because she also wanted to be real but it is apparent that their way of doing so was not in her desires as she gained a conscience in CoM. She couldn't afford to be as selfish as they were.

Saix makes it clear that he remembers his Heart and that he knows how to HURT a Heart. He did each thing he did to push Sora and also he did seem to enjoy watching him and Kairi's reactions to see how they felt as he brought them pain. That is what a sadist is. He got enjoyment out of being cruel and watching them struggle with it. No one else would sit there and make someone get on their knees BEGGING for the return of someone, chuckle about it and brush it off. Whether he has emotions himself, all of the Nobodies seemed to be empathic to a degree. Larxene was directly called a Sadist by Nomura and others. She did get enjoyment and it is clear that Saix also got enjoyment by watching others suffer. He pretty much says that he has the power to do it and he does so.

No, he was a jerk all along. You have this thing about saying that the Org became crueler after Demyx's death but Demyx was not that important to them. The only ones that seemed to even 'like' Demyx were Axel and Namine. Saix could not care for any of them. He had his goals and he was pretty much closer to Xemnas than any of the other Org at the time, to include Xigbar who is #2. Saix was, along with Xaldin, possibly the most ruthless of all of the remaining Org that weren't at Castle Oblivion. Show me anywhere that he was a 'good guy'. He was a smooth operator and manipulator.

So Sora saving people means he's trying to save those lives. The Nobodies could have done things a different way which was established. It's not Sora's fault, or those others who were attacked by the Org that the Nobodies exist. It is by their own hands that the Org exists. The top 6 members did this to themselves and others suffer for it. Why should people who have nothing to do with it die, become Heartless, get cursed etc? It is not irrelevant in the least. It is the reason Sora fought. It's the Org's fault for not coming out and saying anything honest but instead playing mind games. He did what he had to in order to save people. Just because the Org doesn't value life outside of their own existences doesn't mean Sora won't.

I am not calling the Org evil. However, the point is that they were not good either. They were wrong with how they went about things and this is why I'm telling you it is CLEAR that Namine and King Mickey, Riku and even Yen Sid did not call them evil. However, their schemes were imbalanced and a danger to those who had no idea about things. Innocent lives were taken, harmed etc, in this plan. Sora, not being let in on it, as also Yen Sid wasn't, King Mickey had to investigate as did Riku, etc...no one was calling them evil, including Sora. However, just sitting there and letting them do some massive plan while in fact using Sora...I'm sorry...who's going to sit and just be manipulated like that? They were not in the right. Yes, they had some plan and it may have been for something like fighting off the hidden boss of KH3 that will be shown in Coded...perhaps. But perhaps not. We do not know. In either case, again, do you go about stealing people's livers while they are alive because you need one? Anyone with a conscience would try to stop them and they NEVER came forward and asked for help or tried to be amiable to Sora in any way. Saix was -using- him and feeding off the reactions. He was their spokesperson. Anyone would not trust a word they said after Saix.

 

Let me explain it to you in terms easily understood within our world.



There is a trolly coming. Its heading straight for millions of people.

The Organization pulls a lever altering the course of that trolly, directing it to kill certain people.

Sora, pushes the lever the other way, back to where it originally was, in essense killing the majority of people who are in the way of the trolly... in essense killing more people than the Organization tried to kill.


Oh... and one more thing... Demyx may have been low ranked when compared to the other members... however, you must consider that he is the 13th most important nobody at the least. He is an Org member.