Warhammer 40k (Table Top Game) geeks help me

Orks = Science Fiction Orcs (or more specfically, Warhammer Fantasy Orcs). Gretchens = Sci-fi Goblins. Just sayin'.

 

Space Wolves and Salamanders are the only two chapters of Space Marines who actively go out of their way to protect innocent lives. An Exterminatus order wipes out ALL life on the planet and renders it completely uninhabitable. The vast majority of the time it is also done long before the Imperial Guard and civilians have a chance to evacuate. Wolves and Salamanders believe that if they CAN save lives, they should do everything in their power to do so. If the threat it big enough, only once all other options are exhausted will Wolves or Salamanders go through with an Exterminatus order.

There's also the fact that Wolves don't exactly see eye to eye with the rest of the Imperium and likely view Xenos civilians of non-genocidal races (granted, that only includes Eldar and Tau in terms of playable races) as innocents and the fact that Exterminatus denies them the chance to test their strength against an enemy strong enough that the Imperium is willing to sacrifice an entire planet to get rid of.

 

Orks are just overgrown goblins. Seriously. Only in Warcraft I believe are they seperate species, even then I'd argue it. In LotR (what all fantasy realms are based off of) it clearly defines them as different cast of the same species. Sometimes the words are used interchangably. Well, in the novels anyways.

They are stupid. I kinda liked the Space Wolves. Salamanders are pansies. What leads to more death? Wiping out a planet whilst trying to withdraw all the savable forces during an overrun? Or, not wiping out an entire world, and face Ork raids for the rest of the planets history? Generation after generation being brutally slaughtered before fighting them back. Only asting long enough to repopulate the cities and outpost for Ork food.

Tau will kill all those who do not submit to the "Greater Good." Why would I submit my culture, faith, and way of life just to make them happy? I would cooperate with them if it gave a tactical advantage, but I would make sure not to turn my back. And would overtly let them know I had every intention of taking them on after whatever reason for the alliance was taken care of.

The Eldar are almost invariably untrustworthy of anyone of thier own kind. I would not work along side them. They would strike first when it benefited them. I'd rather work along side the Ork. At least they tell you when they want to smash your head in... granted, it is all the time.


BTW: Just a random question, I'm still in the "Willing to try it" phase. I've heard 1500pt armies running up tallies of $500. Is this typical? I mean, I kinda want an army close to 3k pts on hand so I can use variety on each battle. Maybe one battle a few more scouts. The next no scouts and more Dreadnaughts and other variations. It seems like an expensive habbit. I do have a disposable income, but, just because I have it. Doesnt mean I want to throw money away. I mean, I expected a full 3k army with variety to cost like 200 tops. Sorry... I might not play. It sucks because, as you can see... I looked deep into the lore.

 

Space Wolves are some of the best Marines in the Imperium. They're so tough and badass that even the Inquisitional forces of the Imperium refuse to even set foot on Fenris out of fear of what the Wolves would do to them thanks to the fact that Logan Grimnar never forgave them for the time he was present for them ordering any Imperial Guardsmen that had seen the Forces of Chaos sterilized and sent to a work camp for the rest of their lives. Even more impressively, out of fear, the Inquisition ignores the Wolves' blatant heresies of seeing their All Father as high, if not higher, than the Emperor. Wolves will only comply to an Exterminatus order if its the only option. The Inquisition is relatively trigger happy with them (IE, they'll likely even order it against Eldar, who rarely permanently take planets as they're too focused on their own survival).

As for Salamanders, their specialty is urban warfare, so Exterminatus isn't even in their area of expertise anyway.

Here's the first lesson of the 40k universe: There is no good guy. There is only slightly less evil). Tau happen to be the least evil faction in the game (followed by the Imperium and the Eldar in debatable order). The Tau will use force to bring your people into the Greater Good if they try to fight back, but they DON'T make you give up your culture, faith or way of life (IE, they even let human members of the Tau Empire worship the Emperor freely). All the Tau want from members of their empire is for them to contribute to the Greater Good.

On the other hand, the Imperium will commit genocide against you for the horrible crime of not being human enough. Even genetic strains that they deem too far from what they count as "human" will be exterminated if they aren't useful. Even if you are human enough, unlike the Tau, they WILL force you to conform to their culture.

Orks will wipe out your entire planet because they're bored. Eldar tend to stick to themselves because they're mostly interested in their own survival, which is also why they don't trust the other races. If Eldar (not Dark Eldar, who are basically space pirates) invade your planet, they have a reason. Granted, they're not going to do so peacefully as they're likely going to try to make you move (and will commit genocide if they deem it necessary), but they mostly leave the other races alone and will actually leave a planet when they're done (though this is often a few hundred years after their initial invasion).

Personally, I rate the Imperium as slightly less evil than the Eldar, but the Tau are clearly the least evil faction as their ultimate goal, peaceful galactic unification, is a noble one, plus their methods are considerably less brutal than any of the other factions. They're still not nice or good, but I'll take what I can get in this setting. Remember, there's a reason the Eldar and Tau have been labeled as the "good guys" at times.... Even if that label has only been slightly true in the case of the Tau.

Considering that the Assault on Black Reach kit is $100 and comes with about $300 worth of models, yes, this game is really, REALLY expensive. Frankly, that's the wargaming hobby as a whole. Still, even if you don't play the tabletop game, there are many ways to enjoy the setting with the various video games (most notably the Dawn of War series and Space Marine, the most recent game), the novels (where most of the lore is explored) and the other media in the franchise (including a direct to DVD movie, a few tabletop RPGs (Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader being the most popular) and a few comic books).

That said, I'd say its still worth picking up the Assault on Black Reach kit, grab a friend and run a few games to see if its a hobby worth sinking your money in.

 

Fair enough.

I read enough of the lore to know about how "good" Man is. I know they are not the good guys. But I am thinking in terms of man. It is mans divine right to ensure their survival as a species for the long term. If that means not trusting other races, then that is fine and well.

If you trust the Tau, that is up to you. I didn't know the Tau allow Emperor worship. So I guess if they leave faith in tact, its not quite as bad.

The Tau, Humans, and Eldar are only "good" in relation to the Ork, Tyranid, and Necron, who's very existence threatens the life of everything else in the universe. Ork are genetically programmed to kill for fun. Tyranid kill everything for the sake of keeping keeping their race alive. The Necron are probably the most evil... as they are gave up their mortal bodies for in order to gain power to destroy life itself.

In truth, I put Eldar in the same category as the Ork. Their culture suggest they were simply made as weapons. they are just at a higher level of intelligence to give them the "civility" not to be so impulsive. I truly believe, if left to their own devices and left unchecked, they could do much worse than the Ork.

Ok... lets look at what is less human in warhammer 40k universe... it is sad that they are by and large abandoned. But, spontaneous mutations to the degree of growing tentacles, beastly horns or fur, that clearly is not simple genetic abnormalities. It can only be the influence of Chaos Gods making mutants. It is a canonized fact. Most of the Chaos Marines who are beastly mutants started off as normal humans (if 8ft tall steroid junkie Marines who spit acid and have a variety of other enhancements are considered normal to you) and became mutants after devoting their life to Chaos Gods.

This tells me, that mutants, even spontaneously born mutants, are largely the product of Chaos Gods. Sad... And I agree with the Imperium on these occasions.

I knew Black Reach was 100... but otherwise... Ouch...

ICSP IS HIT WITH RECOIL!!!

 

In terms of scale of how evil each faction is, I believe the order is like this:

Most Evil
1. The Forces of Chaos
2. Dark Eldar (These guys are f(guitar riff)ed up.)
3. Necrons
4. Orks
5. Tyranids (They're giant bugs from another galaxy, how do we know if they have any concept of morality?)
6. The Imperium
7. Eldar (they are a dying race and will do anything to keep themselves from going extinct... anything except screwing each other to save their own race. They are like Space Pandas.)
8. The Tau Empire
Least Evil

 

I will point out that most players are willing to do casual games with low point counts. I'm still only playing with about 1,000 points of Tau, partly because some essential Tau models (such as Broadside Battlesuits) are damn near impossible to find at the moment. I'm actually planning to start a Space Wolves army sooner than I planned because of how hard it is to get Tau.

 

How many points are in Black Reach? For both Ork and Marines listed seperately...

 

Woah and here I thought I was the only one who visits the Games Workshop.
I'm more of a LotR game kind of guy, but recently I've started creating a Warhammer 40k army because the 40k game seems awesome. I'm a Blood Angels and Black Templars collector myself. Thanks for the tips and tricks everyone.

 

For Space Marines, it comes with about 585 points. For Orks, 385. Its apparent to me that they intend it to be an even match if you remove the Terminator squad (which costs 200 points) from the Marines that it comes with, but included them so that there wouldn't be such a large number of Orks compared to Marines, which is why I personally say that Orks were kind of a bad choice for a starter kit.

Alternatively, you could use options to boost the Ork point count to match the Marine point count. Its actually quite easy to remove the Dreadnought instead of the Terminators and give the Orks about 100 points of options.

 

Yeah, necrobumb, but I figure it's better than starting a new thread.

So the new edition of the rule book comes out this weekend, who else is looking forward to it? I, for one, can't wait to let my Tau see combat again.... even if it is simply as allies to the Space Wolves.

 

I never knew this thread existed, but any who, I have watched some games of 40k, but I'm a fantasy player (Wood Elves for the win). I haven't played in a extremely long time since I have played with life being life and all. But it really depends on how you like to play that depends on your army. I liked the idea of shooting the junk out of everybody so I took woodeleves as my army because they shot a lot. I like fantasy over 40k, but the space wolves have sparked my interest. Maybe when I get some money one day I will get them.

 

If you like shooty, look into Tau and Necrons, which are the two armies with the most focus on shooting. Otherwise, HELL YEAH SPACE WOLVES! What other army has 7 and a half foot tall super soldiers in power armor that makes them even bigger riding on the back of wolves the size of cars?