This Really Bugs Me In Stories

I really hate it when stories set up the protagonists in seemingly no win situations, and then find a way to handave it at the last second.
I want to see these characters deal with situations where there ISN'T a way to magically solve their problems. I want the morally grey situations they deal with to STAY morally grey

Like Final Fantasy X

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What if there WAS no way to beat Sin without Yuna dying?

or Korra

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What if Amon WAS a chosen one with spirit given powers, somewhere on equal moral ground to Korra?

I mean, I like happy endings, and I dislike mentalities that say an ending can't be happy and good, and I hate it when sequels steal happy endings out from under them, but the way this stuff convenient works out at the eleventh hour just feels lazy to me

 

But did it really just conveniently pop up at the eleventh hours? I mean, with FFX, it's not it wasn't there all the time, no one just decided to think about it, and just followed with what they were told without any second though, and Korra is probably just because it was already pointed out in the first series that there's only one person with the bridge between spirits and people, so even if someone can see the spirits, I doubt they'd give them spirit powers.

 

But the thing is the only reason they think anything will be different in FFX compared to the countless times after is because they REALLY think so, and Sin just so happened to like music. They didn't do anything special to warrant being able to do what they did

 

This is literally the premise of... nearly every Doctor Who episode lol. Hell, there's an episode called The Eleventh Hour.

But I mean, as a blanket statement I'm not sure I agree. The classic David / Goliath story is ubiquitous for a reason: we love to see protagonists overcome seemingly insurmountable odds. However, if it happens repetitively (or through some kind of deus ex machina), it can get quite boring and lose the satisfaction we usually draw from it. It's all about variation. Storytellers need to also tell tales where the hero doesn't always win (even going as far as failure), or where they must sacrifice something in order to reach an ends. As a writer (of crap fanfiction) I don't usually like to let my characters off easy, I love the themes of (usually self) sacrifice and gray mortality, but as a reader/consumer I do sometimes need a story where the good guys win.

 

Misty is right. As far as I consider it, the times when things go bad and stay bad are Tragedies. When every character has that one critical flaw that makes you know they are doomed to failure, then it becomes as dull as expecting the hero to win after dealing with a problem. Throughout history, you have several periods of the "Mary Sue" changing. Ancient Greeks really favored Tragedies, Dramas were big in the mid-90's, flawed heroes more apt to say "You got the wrong guy....(dramatic pause)...I'm no hero." than anything else appeared in strings of things fairly recently, and now Comedies with bawdy humor are rather popular.

I don't disagree with your point of view that the predictability can get a bit dull, but I try to keep an open mind. I expect the writer to try and surprise me in ways I've never seen, and I distract myself from trying to make too many predictions. By the end of the story, every development I've payed attention to tends to fit well and provides for an enjoyable diversion.

 

Well, I think it's a standard storytelling tool; it more annoys me when it comes at the end of the film. If it's early on, it doesn't bug me too much, but if it's something that happens at the end, then that tells me that the main character isn't all that strong and they didn't learn anything.

If you study the art of storytelling, the act of "deus ex machina" will often come in between the first and second act of the story (building off Campbell's The Hero's Story model). At this point in the story, our hero is entering the new world and is rather inexperienced. He'll be approached by a Threshold Guardian to test him to see if he's really capable of living in the new world. More often than not, the character has to find another way to get by them without right out fighting them because they would lose otherwise. Sometimes, it's a random act by an outside force that saves them. This stage is just so the hero can get their feet wet in the new world.

Now, if this same thing happens during the third act of the story, this means that the writer is lazy and that the whole journey was pointless. The whole point of any story is for a hero to start out one way, enter a new world, and then use what they have learned in their old world. However, if they need an outside force to help them, that that means they never really learned anything, making the journey pointless, as well as the story.

Madoka Magica

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This happens after Mami's death. Madoka and Sayaka are stuck in the witch's laberynth, now that their mentor has been killed right in front of their eyes. They don't have the strength to take down the witch, and they are hesitant with Kyubey's request. That's when Homura comes in to save the day. It was an outside force that saved them, but only because they didn't have the power to.

 

That finale was just...so damn terrible. I can't even believe that the writers went with that :\

 

I guess I should have been a bit more clear, but I mean more when the story doesn't deal with the pieces it sets up and uses a different excuse to completely solve the problem.
Like with Korra,

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rather than Korra having to actually come up with an argument against Amon it just turns out he's a hypocrite in the most extreme way and then they drop it

Or with FFX,

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literally all they have to go by is Tidus being REALLY insistent there's a way to solve the problem without Yuna dying... and then there is... and what's the solution? Attack sin with swords and blitzballs and stuff, and it just so happens that because of a tidbit they know about Jecht they're able to pacify him to allow this to happen.
Basically, their solution is a flash in the pan that had little to do with the actual protagonist's accomplishments or abilities. Like if they had used the song during Operation Mi'ihen, THAT would have just as easily done the job

I'm familiar with the concept of Deux Ex Machina, but a fundamental thing I've found about the GOOD examples of that is that it has to feel like the character has earned it like Journey on the PS3

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after pushing yourself to your absolute limit through a fierce storm, the character collapses, then previously established god-type characters grant your character the ability to fly

But yeah, I like happy endings, but a happy ending doesn't feel very special if you don't have to work for it. And what's more, a lot of the examples listed DON'T even have happy endings, they try for more bitter sweet or something.

 

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Even with him revealing he was a Super Bloodbender, I still don't think that hypocritical thing really invalidated his stance in any way. I really believed they could've worked with that if they fleshed everything out more. It was all there but they just dropped the ball. Hard.

Though idek if I prefer this ending or Book 2's. Book 2 did some things better than Book 1, but it was still pretty blah.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates how Book 2 ended. It had so much potential, and started off pretty well, and the Beginnings episodes were really good, but...the writing just fell apart in the last few episodes.

 

Oh yeah I hear you, actually this goes back to the mythological hero. Without getting too far into it there's a list of qualities that nearly every hero (in both mythology and modern stories) shares, one of the most important being the hero's quest. Before the hero's quest however the hero undergoes a period of separation/isolation, frequently to train (Luke leaves Tatooine and later Hoth to train as a Jedi, Harry goes off to Hogwarts, Superman goes off to some kind of snow place I think??). During this training (both mental and physical), the hero gains the strength and tools he or she will use to accomplish their quest.

This is important for the reader/consumer to see because it means the hero earned his or her victory, it wasn't just a cheap technicality or stroke of luck (unless it being a stroke of luck is a plot point). If the hero does not earn his or her victory, we'll be left feeling unfulfilled, and possibly questioning why we even had to watch Luke train on Dagobah for an hour. Empire Strikes Back is a great movie for this because Luke fails to overcome his odds (that is, defeat Vader) because he has not trained enough, he hasn't authentically earned it. There's no stroke of luck or natural ability that lets him overcome Vader -- he's pretty quickly and easily defeated. It's a miracle he survived at all. If Luke had miraculously defeated Vader with little training we'd be pretty disappointed.

It's also significant in that it empowers the reader -- you don't have to be special or lucky to overcome your odds. If you're determined and work hard enough, you can do it.

 

That was the magical solution. They denied it because they realized it couldn't be that easy. What they chose instead was to fight Yunalesca, to fight Sin, with their own strength - something that in and of itself seemed impossible, reinforced by Sin's destructive power and the revelation that the legendary Auron died at Yunalesca's hands. The twist was that there was nothing impossible about it; it's just that everyone was so demoralized and bitter by the end of their journey, and the teachings held such sway over them, that they didn't have the werewithal to say no and choose a life of struggle over a noble death.

Yu Yevon cursed itself in the end by setting up a cycle of death that the people could not bear. In all likelihood, the Fayth would have risen up time and time again, until one of their chosen found the strength to stop the cycle. And the longer the people of Spira endured that suffering, the more they stirred with unrest - as evidenced by the Al Bhed, the Crusaders' cooperation with them, Auron's changing worldviews, etc. I found it very poetic in that way, as if Yevon collapsed under the weight of its own system. It tried so hard to enforce this idea of inevitability that, ultimately, its own death was likewise inevitable.

 

I really like seeing my favorite characters suffer. Emotional trauma, injuries, near death experiences... I love putting my favorites through all of it. Anything to get them out of their comfort zone. I'm a sadist as a writer. :3

I have so many issues with how the end of the first season of Korra was handled. Well, I have issues with a lot of the first season of Korra.

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I really dislike how the whole Equalist plot seemed to be shoved aside in favor of the romance subplots. Amon had a point when he said that Benders were dangerous. We saw it with the Triple Threat Triads, Korra's friends, and the Avatar herself. I can recall one clear instance of Mako threatening to burn someone's face off if he didn't get the information he wanted. Just like a certain someone's false backstory.

I didn't like how Bolin went from a clear developed character to comic relief. I didn't like how he only got 1 or 2 lines in an episode.

I didn't like that Korra got her bending back through an Avatar Dues Machina at the end of Season 1. She could have developed a lot more if she was just an Airbender and had to somehow get her other elements back through training/pilgrimages.

I wanted Amon's scars to be real. Making him a waterbender could have worked. But to just reveal that the scars were faked and just making him another pretty boy badguy seemed to be a cheap move.

I don't know. I have a lot of issues in regards to how the last two episodes of the first season of Korra played out. I liked Amon as a villain. I liked that he had a valid point that was just ignored in favor of romance. And I have a lot of issues with Noatak. I just think that he undermines a lot of what we were told about Amon.

Also, Mako is a first rate ******bag. He abuses his little brother. He plays Asami so hard and then kind of pretends she doesn't exist at times. And Asami is just a Queen about everything.

From a writing standpoint, the Eleventh Hour Victory can be useful if done correctly. People love it when the underdog triumphs in the face of impossible odds. However, when it becomes a pattern, that's when readers/viewers start to lose interest. There is nothing wrong with your characters losing battles. It can be a useful tool to develop them. Have them learn from what they did wrong and perhaps they know their foe a little better or they learned some weakness that they can exploit.

For instance, when the heroes in my story first face the antagonist, despite being lauded as the Chosen Ones, they are painfully defeated. Which is to be expected when four humans and a [in terms of this story] common place dragon engage a personification of Death in battle really. But instead of accepting defeat, they decide to learn from their loss and train to better themselves. [One of them is a bit traumatized that people died for him and has to either try to prevent that or accepting it.]

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Then the thing happens where they find out the Big Bad is not the Big Bad. There's a Bigger Bad.

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I haven't started writing this yet. /sob

 

Oh good, it's not just me. I find the the chapters I reread most in books, the parts I rewatch most in movies/TV shows, are the parts where the main character is suffering or losing. I kind of feel bad about it because I love these characters and here I am watching/reading about them getting whipped, tortured, failing, losing control for the eighth time.

For example, one of my favourite quick-reads is a series called The Knight and Rogue series by Hilari Bell. In the first book alone, one of the main characters is

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imprisoned, shamed, beaten, had a wild boar set on him, whipped, had his whip injuries get infected, beaten again, imprisoned again, force fed potions and ultimately failed at what he set out to do. And that was the first book. A lot of other stuff happens in the mean time and even though he failed his task, it's still a happy ending.

I love the characters (morons that they are), the plot, the setting, the twists, but I still reread the parts where the main characters fail more often than the happy bits. Of course, after that I reread the ending of the book because I know all their suffering has paid off and main character moron #1 will get his "happy end", despite the crap that was thrown at him.

 

Well, I felt that the only way that FFX's ending would have been like "oh that was pointless"

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would be if Tidus didn't disappear. I felt that that was the sacrifice. Of course, FFX-2's ending ruined that, but eh.

I mean, if people are lead to expect a certain ending happen from the beginning and it does happen, it's like "oh, well, why did I sit through this if I knew what was going to happen?" (I suppose this doesn't count for historical dramas like Lincoln or something like that lol, so that expectation going in would be a different situation). But at the end of the day, it's the execution and how it's told. If we know a character's gonna die at the end, then it better be a damn good and entertaining story to follow.

 

Why does changing the sacrifice suddenly make it better BTW? They make a big deal about not having to sacrifice anybody to save the world... and then sacrifice Tidus

 

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I thought Tidus was simply going back to where he belongs since he's dead and junk, like Jecht and Auron?

 

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Tidus isn't dead, he's not an unsent like Auron, he's the manifestation of the dream of the Fayth. Basically, beating Sin meant destroying the Fayth, so as a result Tidus disappeared. At least... I'm pretty sure the Fayth is gone, though X-2 seems to contradict that... though the audio drama in the HD version supports that so... I dunno. My point is, they knowingly sacrificed Tidus, and apparently that's fine, just not Yuna

 

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I just like to ignore the existence of X-2 and the radio drama as canon, which works because they happen after X :>

And I guess you're right that they did sacrifice Tidus, but to me it's not in the same vein as what was supposed to happen to Yuna.

And isn't unsent basically like being dead? I mean obviously Auron and Tidus and Seymour are still moving and talking and junk, but they're not supposed to be doing that stuff