Kingdom Hearts II *Theory Spoilers* Org XIII wins!

Just to summarize whats confirmed.

Axel will return.

Xehanort should return.

The rest of OrgXIII might return.

Got it memorized? (Oops wrong thread again...)

 

YAYZ!!! i love axel his sooo ooosome... haha got it memorized?
darn... I hate xehanort -.- it wuuz hard to defeat him.. and if he comes back... the game is gonna be a rough one. gaaaa

haha the word xemnas keeps making me crack up xD

 

Actually, that isn't confirmed, ICSP. It is confirmed that Axel returned to his original form (in other words, he lives), and that Xehanort, going by Nomura's interview , did too, yet is not set in stone either. Though they both are the most possible to return, Axel because of Nomura's annoying favoritism despite the other members (and in the end giving him more screentime), and Xehanort as a final defeat to end the game.

Don't take anything seriously yet. You never know what might happen.

Unless I misread what you were saying.

Though while I do think is 98.9% likely that Xehanort wil return, I don't think the five disciples (Braig, Dilan, Even, Aeleus, Ienzo<--- really hoping his return xP) will all appear, unless they got really lucky and Nomura has it in his plans to do so with a explanation about many Heartless being defeated or whatever. If anything, we'll probably have flashbacks where we could see them, or a video that Sora and the gang find.

 

mehhh so cruel :/ haha jk

 

Actually, what they did was summon the heartless to concentrated places, where the Keyblade Master could show up and destroy them. The heartless would normally have spread much more thinly throughout the worlds unchecked, taking more hearts. By pooling them into several spots when Sora arrives ensures that both the Heartless are destroyed and that they get their hearts. Its a win-win situation, and they technically did no wrong. The hearts that the Heartless took would have been taken anyway. That's what the Heartless do. They may have actually cut down on the amount of hearts taken by controlling where they turn up.

This is true. But, they were not evil when they were Nobodies, which is what we are discussing here. People seem to forget that, in the KH Universe, Nobodies have no capacity for evil. So, yes, what they did beforehand was wrong, but now, they are just doing the only thing they can, and that means that they had to get their hearts back. And who knows. However unlikely, they may turn to good afterwords.

Except Xehanort. Undoubtedly, he'll have to be killed.

Wrong on both accounts. You people are forgetting that they didn't just go into a crowded street and rip people's hearts out of their chests. They took hearts that had already fallen to darkness, that Sora was going to release anyway. Instead of the analogies you have, think of it like this:

You lose, let's say...I don't know. Your favorite hat. Then, you see someone a few feet away from you chuck the exact sam hat on the ground and walk away from it. Someone else will undoubtedly take it anyway, the person who originally had it doesn't want it anymore, so, why don't you take it?

 

I actually meant pre-nobody stage. They were the ones who destroyed countless worlds, in the name of research.

The thing is, they were doing evil things in order to get their hearts back. What I think you meant was they had no capacity for malice. Just because they do not have an affiliation with darkness, they do have the potential to do evil things to get their hearts back. If they could get their hearts back by torturing millions, they would. Likewise, if they could get their hearts back by selling cookies for girl scouts, I think we would see cookies being sold.
I consider trying to turn beast into a heartless evil. I also think stealing the Olympus stone was bad. Kidnapping Kairi was certainly not a nice thing to do, twisting Sora's memories around their little finger was not good either. I would say that they use the moral "the end justifies the means."

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The thing is, normally the hearts would go to kingdom hearts, or dormancy, waiting for the body, or whatever. The org was stealing them, and was (I assume) going to destroy them to get their hearts back. I assume they were going to destroy the hearts, because DiZ seemed dead set on saving the hearts. I also think that if they are diverting the heart's natural flow, it is bad.

Not to mention they did rip out a dragon's heart, to make a heartless, and they attempted to do the same to Beast.

As to turning to good, you yourself said it was unlikely. By far better to eliminate them, than run the risk of another wave of destruction hitting worlds, in the name of "science".

 

It bugs me when people see that some organization members did some bad things and suddenly all of them are evil. They are individual sentient life-forms that have their own individual minds. Also, I don't think stealing a peice of rock really warrants the death penalty. Sure, it's wrong, but not worth killing over. And plus he gave it back.​

 

Ok then... its not confirmed... but according to Nomura both SHOULD happen.

Exactly... now... could everyone drop this debate and take it over into the "Was Sora Justified" thread?

I like this debate... but I want this thread to discuss the posibilty of OrgXIII return, not the justification of their return.

Again I post it here... http://www.kh-vids.net/showthread.php?t=39790

 

Can you give me a link to the interview where Nomura says Axel's not dead? I keep hearing about it but I just can't find it.

 

Sorry ICSP...

Forgive me.

As for the Org's return, I imagine a few will. Not all, but a few. It would be awkward seeing them though. "hey Xemnas, sorry about the whole kill you thing..."

I can see them returning, especially Axel. He death was just over something too trivial to be real. I would have happlily killed those nobodies.

 

I've wondered this, myself....

I can't find a translation of what Namine actually said, so I'll settle for the interview... That I can't find a link to. -_-;

Summery:
-If a Heartless without a Nobody dies, the person is "revived," for lack of a better word, and the original person is whole and alive again.
-If a Heartless with a Nobody dies first, the heart that is released (along with, I assume, the other hearts the Heartless stole) waits for the body and soul; in other words, the heart waits until the Nobody dies. Then, once it does die, the heart joins with the rest, and the person is whole and alive again.
-If a Nobody with a Heartless dies first, then the Heartless, maybe the person will be whole and alive again.


So. It's not that the Organization had to simply die to be whole. And it isn't mentioned whether they had to earn their hearts back. Their Heartless had to be killed first for it to be certain they'd get their own hearts back. Sora killed many, many, many Heartless between the beginning of KH1 and the end of KH2. Just Sora, by himself. Not counting how many Heartless the Organization killed. Or how many Heartless other people (such as Leon) killed. Judging by the number of Heartless killed, I think it's pretty much certain that at least some members of the Organization will be human again, and maybe we'll get to meet them.

Apparently, somewhere along the line, Axel's Heartless had been killed. Then eventually, he died himself. Therefore, he returned to his original form. It seems fitting. He sacrificed himself for Sora and Roxas, and he got rewarded, I suppose. Though, it seems a shame... That makes what he did less significant....
I think it's also pretty much certain Xehanort will be back, obviously for the same reason.

I think the Organization's plan was to kill enough Heartless and collect enough hearts that some of the hearts had to be their own and some had to belong to some of the lesser Nobodies. (Xemnas: "Share your power with all Nobodies." Well, lookit that. The Organization was even gonna rid of some of the lesser Nobodies. Y'know, the ones that attack you when the Heartless aren't around? Doesn't that mean that they were doing sort of a good thing by trying to get rid of some of those? Naw! That isn't possible, they're "evil"!) It's not close to a fool-proof plan; in fact, there was a pretty good chance it wouldn't work at all. But, they seemed desperate enough to try anything, I don't think they really cared. And, apparently, it worked for some of them. So, yeah, I guess the Organization won. Some, if not all, most likely got their hearts back.

Way unfair, though....


With this information, what they were doing doesn't seem like such a big deal. It's not like the hearts they collected in their Kingdom Hearts were destroyed and unusable. (If they were, there wouldn't be much point in collecting them in that way.) Had it worked, after they were done doing whatever they were going to do with their Kingdom Hearts, it seems like the hearts that they didn't use would go back to the people they belonged to. So, if any of the Heartless the Organization released stole people's hearts, the people would (probably) be whole again... Doesn't exempt the Org., really, but it makes what they were doing seem much less evil....

 

You have a really good point.Never knew that.

 

This...suddenly made me incredibly happy. Just the idea that the Organization get their hearts back after death makes me want to cry with joy. Whenever I play through the game or watch cutscenes, I always feel terrible when the Nobodies die. But now that I've seen this, I'm not quite so sad anymore.

...Yaaay, Even and Myde get their hearts back...