Kingdom Hearts II *Theory Spoilers* Org XIII wins!

So then what happens to the heart after the nobody returns to darkness?

Also, why send Axel to kill Roxas? He shows up two rooms away from Sora. A lot easier to let Roxas go and merge with him.

By this logic, Sora should not be around. He was turned into a heartless, then the darkness was repelled. He recovered. Surely he should have gone dormant, waiting for Roxas to die?

 

I never really thought about the Organization's heartlesses. Maybe the bosses in all the worlds that didn't have you fight Org. members (E.g. Hollow Bastion, Beast's castle), were their heartlesses. Maybe in POTC it was Luxord's heartless, but probably not seeing as he said he wanted to find out if it was worthy of the org. And maybe in Land of Dragons the weird heartless boss flying thing(just beat it today) was Axel's heartless or something, because it had a lot of fire based attacks.

 

*TwilightNight* here, bringing you the interview answer from Nomura's mouth himself xP, just to keep it stable.

Basically, to break it down, your Heartless is destroyed, the heart goes free and stays in a state of suspension. If your Nobody is killed after, then you can return to your original form easily. Which is, what happened to Axel, I'm guessing.

However, if your Nobody is killed first, and the heart is still stuck on the Heartless, the body will be swallowed by the darkness. In that case, if your heart is free after that happens, is harder, cause now it depends on a maybe that you can return or not.

 

It is possible that they live on, if conditions are right. Assuming that, between the times that they lost their hearts and that they were defeated, someone with a keyblade (or other spiritually powerful weapon - Leon's gunblade seems to release hearts as well) killed their unique heartless, and that their hearts went not to the true original Kingdom Hearts that the Heartless seek, but to the artificial Kingdom Hearts of The World that Never Was, then their heart would have been released and sent back to them. In this case, that person would be reborn.

Which brings up an interesting topic, though. Where would they come back in? Their home world? Is there a designated world for the recreation of creatures of light, like End of the World is for Heartless and Twilight Town is for Nobodies?

Personally, I would be happy if they were able to reobtain their hearts. I mean, they do deserve it. That's all that they were trying to do. The only wrong they committed in the entirety of their existence was play on the Keyblade Master's predictable behavior of killing every heartless within a thousand-mile radius. The only thing they can feel is the longing for their hearts. Obviously they are going to do whatever they can to take back their hearts, not caring those who get turned into Heartless in the crossfire (whose hearts would just be released again when Sora destroys them).

 

i undertsand the Xemnas part... but how does the Axel part work out... I don't remember killing his heartless

 

Xehanort's heartless was the only heartless to ever retain human form. Axel's heartless would likely be a Red Jazz or something to that effect. Any of the thousands upon thousands of heartless killed betwen the beginning of KH1 to the end of KHII could have been Axel's heartless.

 

And just to add in, in the KH2 Novel (written, not manage, where it follows what happened behind the scenes of KH2 and a few extras. Don't worry, they'll come to the US soon xP), it was stated by Naminé that Axel returned to his original self, in the way Nomura explained it as posted above, I could guess.

And, I actually do think they reappear in their original world as well automatically, though I would expect a change in family (if any) or another way of living their life, unless rent or "munny" isn't a problem in the KH world. Hey, Roxas got his own crib in TT xD.

As for what Xemnas said, the Org. probably didn't truly know exactly how Axel had "awakened", and I think Xemnas took it that it was his sacrifice and friendship with Roxas that got him that sort of gift. That, or, which I'm guessing is more probable in my opinion, maybe he was talking about how Axel felt like he had a heart, and therefore, "awakened" in a way, like in the way you discover love (and no, I'm not saying anything about AkuRoku here -_-, just a example), and in the end, it made him use the power/bravery he had to combust himself to save Sora/Roxas.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. They were never villains. They always had the ability to "cheat death" of being a heartless. They never would have caused any perminent damage. They could have undone everything. But Sora is an idiot, and would rather kill them all. In doing so, he probably gave them all a second life anyway.

If not all, then probably a quite a few. Xemnas and Axel are pretty much confirmed. Axel is literally confirmed.

Angelsneedflight: to answer your question, we havent seen all the heartless in 358/2 days. Nomura hinted that there would be plenty of new Heartless.

Also to add to my theory: In 358/2 Days your playing as Org XIII. I would like to point out that I doubt you will be playing as bad guys. Perhaps in 358/2 Days you will see the story from Org XIII's side, and realize they were never bad guys. Just really good antagonist.

 

But, here's the thing about them coming back in their homeworld. What if their world was destoryed by the Heartless sometime between KH1 and KHII? Because the worlds were restored at the end of KH1, but what if the heartless returned and destroyed it again? Then, the human-form former Nobodies would be returned to where? The End of the World? Traverse Town? Empty Space?

 

The worlds were all restored when The End of The World was destroyed. Why do you think Destiny Islands were restored.

But... IF for some reason thier world is still controled by darkness, then they will either appear in Traverse Town, or they will turn into summoning crystals. Just like when Dumbo and Bambi's world was destroyed.

 

Since they're not bad guys, it kinda makes you wonder if you would be able to summon the Organization to fight alongside you during KH3...:poketoungeb:

 

Who said they were good guys? Xehanort isn't a good guy, is he?

 

Maybe in KH3 we'll get to fight the human Xehanort?

 

The org released a plague of heartless across worlds! The sacrificed millions of hearts so they could return to their original form!

Oh, and strangly, Axel, and the rest will be back. Great.

 

Maybe, who knows. I think some of them will make a cameo in KH3. Nomura is like that. I doubt they will all be villains.

They are not good guys. But it is possible that they are not bad guys. It is possible that they never intended to do anything that was reversable. If they knew that they could bring nobodies back to life, then they werent truly evil.

Xehanort in KH2 you kinda get the hint that he wasnt an evil monster at the end. Xemnas told Ansem he intended to make a world, a whole world, one heart at a time. Ansem didnt reply saying that the world would be a world of darkness, or evil. No, he said "Any world of yours would be one of ignorance."

I think this implies that Ansem knew Xehanort wasn't pure evil. He was probably capable of great good when he had a heart. We might not know until BbS and 358/2 Days.

Maybe. If Nomura decides to make the comlpete Xehanort a bad guys, then we definatly will. But Nomura said we havent seen the real bad guy yet, and that he, or it, would be revealed in the next trilogy of games.

It may be hinting towards complete Xehanort, or something else entirely. *Glares at Dark Soldier*

Technically... No one unleashed the heartless. Its strongly implied that as long as darkness exist, the heartless will exist in some form or another. And its also KH canon that light and darkness will always coexist.

In other words... there always has been, and always will be heartless.

You cannot blame that on six scientist who studied the heartless.

[Mumble] Even though they did mass produce them. [/mumble]

Also, I dont think they sacrificed millions. I believe they were capable of brining back every heart they lost. According to Nomura... it is possible.

 

You guys are deep SOB's I tell you what......Cheese and rice...Yeah, I think that the Organization can be defeated....we just don't know how yet.

 

The thing is ICSP, they were not Angels before the transformatiion.

I have to count banishing thier master to the world of darkness, and mass producing heartless bad.

Xenanort's heartless was undoubtably evil.

It would be like me using my KH disk to kill people, then stealing my neighbor's copy, because mine broke.

 

Exactly. And Xehanort wanted to lose his heart. Or something like that. He was batcrap insane, yeah, I'll go with that.

I think that they would have had to earn their hearts back. I mean, you wouldn't let someone steal your Car just because they didn't have one. Why should they get away with stealing vital organs?

 

They were not angels... nor were they demons. They were humans. Humans are capable of both good and evil... even the worst person is capable of doing good, and even the nicest person is capable of evil.

Ok... mass producing heartless was bad. But banishing Ansem the Wise into the world of darkness might not have been so bad. Its more merciful than killing him or torture.

Also, Ansem the Wise AKA DiZ is a bad guy himself. His only motivation throughout KH CoM, and KH2 was revenge. He manipulated Riku, to the point where Riku turned back into Ansem form to accomplish a mission Diz put him up to.

Also, Ansem the Wise is himself responcible for the creation of the heartless. He accidentally created an artificial heartless before Xehanort did. Xehanort wanted to make more... Ansem didn't and thats where the betrayal started.

We thought the same thing about Master Xehanort when we first saw him... but recent information released seems to point at him being an anti-hero type.

I find it funny that you use your a KH disk to represent your heart...

But, according to what Nomura said, OrgXIII never killed anyone, nor did they intend to kill anyone whome they couldn't bring back from the dead.

As I'm sure your well aware, there is another thread dedicated to this arguement. If you wish to keep discussing whether them returning is right or wrong or if OrgXIII is good or evil, go ahead and bump that thread. I will continue my debate there.

However, if you wish to discuss the posibility of OrgXIII returning, then discuss it here.

 

gahhh u guys, I don't get... so is Axel gone for good, or is he still ok?