The U.S. Constitution's 4th Amendment Dies Today

BaseSebastion, please chill out. No one even brought up all this Republican vs Democrat stuff until you voiced it so strongly it merited a refuting. Let alone the religious mumbo jumbo. You also are forgetting a great many things here.

One Nation Under God was added in the 1950s. It was never there prior despite the fact a Christian wrote the Pledge of Allegiance. We were just fine without it for years because this nation was never meant to be 'under God'. It was meant to be for the people by the people. WE the PEOPLE. Your argument here is redundant and really didn't need even brought up. Also, we could go into the long wars caused by Christianity, whether Protestant or Catholic but this is hardly the topic for it.

As for saying Obama would have people put their hands over their hearts during the pledge of allegiance...uh, why would he care? Even so, I've always said the pledge of allegiance with my hand over my heart before I became a soldier and afterwards, I now do that or salute the flag as is the protocol. You really have a bias towards Democrats here that is worse than many people care about Republicans.

Seriously, stop being so defensive that you have to pronounce you are a Catholic and a Republican. No one really cares as much as you make it out to be. You act like a victim that is trying to fight back and really you are fighting shadows. I've heard this sort of talk from Baby Boomers and people that also insist that Obama is a Muslim etc and that they can't be under a president who is black. Oh noes! Anyone with half a brain knows that the Dems and Reps have been corporate bought out for some time any way. Both have faults. When voting, just go for the platform you like best already. Last election, because both Dems and Reps sucked, I voted for Ralph Nader. You go for who makes sense to you. Screw the party crap and devotion to it. No one -owes- the party jack crap. There are many Catholics who vote Dem so really don't bother bringing religion into it either.

Also, you have heard of the 'melting pot' of America, haven't you? This country was founded on immigrants and people from all over as well as the integration of the native peoples. Spanish IS the second most spoken language in the U.S. You are insulting immigrants everywhere including your ancestors if you think that they don't have rights etc and we should not accept the fact we are a multi-cultural nation. You seem afraid to adapt and change to make things better and that is usually an 'old peoples' syndrome'. If we don't change though, obviously we are going to falter and plummet. However, the constitution in itself is our backbone. It was written very well and it can hold up to many things. The right to go in someone's place without a warrant is VERY wrong to grant to the government. And yes, the only reason this is even being made possible is because of our hypothetical 'War on Terror' and the fact Bush seems to want us to feel safer by taking our very rights away from us. Just because your Italian grandfather made a rule of speaking -no- Italian because he is in America now, doesn't mean anything. This country IS a place where multiple people from everywhere came to. Why shouldn't they speak what they want as long as they can also speak some English and get by? His choice was his own. Let other people have theirs. The point of coming to America was that they would not have to give up their whole cultural identity in the first place and yet have more freedom and earn potentially more money etc.

I don't care if someone is a Dem or Rep. I DO care that our Constitution is being defiled in the name of 'safety' and people are gullible and falling for it. I do care that Huckabee, a Republican religious nutjob, wants to 'put God in the Constitution' and this was his nutty platform. I -do- care that anyone would think they have a right to violate the sacred trust that this government was built for us by us. 'We the people' should mean something and we don't need morons thinking they can break and enter into your home without a warrant just because they suspect terrorism. Muslims ARE citizens here too. And if this clears, where does the line stop? First it's with Muslims and those suspected of Terrorism. Next it goes to anywhere else that is convenient to feed people a bunch of lies. Terrorist acts are going to happen. I refuse to live my life in fear of them. Many Americans feel the same way that the price of losing our personal freedoms is NOT a solution. The Constitution is written extremely well and very little of it cannot be used today. It gives us freedoms, the right to defend ourselves, free speech, free religion or lack thereof, etc. If it is a Republican making stupid decisions, which Bush has made numerous ones and been backed by both Dems and Reps, all I have to say is that the PERSON takes the blame. He is an idiot, evangelical cowboy that has taken on more than he can chew in the name of his God and the all mighty oil corporations.

9/11 had a great chance of being diverted if either Clinton or Bush would have done -anything- and taken it more seriously. Clinton chose not to do a thing as his term was coming to an end even though the students were reported to him by the CIA. Bush chose to not do a darn thing at all even when the danger was escalating and there was more proof there was a danger. Many people have even theorized that Bush obviously wanted this to happen to be able to get people to go to war with Iraq etc. The point here is that if Bush was so worried about our safety, he sure didn't do jack crap about it back then which all that had to be done was -arrest a group of people- known to exist and that were here illegally since their passports expired. Deport them or whatever. Who cared? At least then we wouldn't have this mass hysteria, a few thousand people would have lived and NY wouldn't have a mess sitting there where the twin towers was. I live in NY. It sucks.

Bush simply needs to be out of office and it is a big shame that he can't get impeached in time to stop anymore stupid things he could do. The one thing I would vote for Obama for is the fact he has said that he will help undo the restrictions placed by Bush that make us live with this 'protection' crap that means nothing and takes away freedoms. This law can become very skewed. First it's the right to invade a home suspected of terrorism without a warrant. Next it'll be you downloaded an MP3 illegally so RIAA can take it's cronies and get you. This is a -very- stupid law and sugar coating it doesn't change the fact. Whether Rep or Dem or whatever, anyone with a brain should hate this law. Amen.

 

That was the most amazing post I have ever read. I completely agree with you. I'm also glad that someone else has the grey matter to realize that Bush should never have been elected in the first place.

 

And certainly not twice. With the fiddling of the voting process in Florida he guaranteed an illegitimate second term. Then when many people went to Senate to have him removed, needing only one signature from any Senator (either side) to have an investigation started they were ignored.

Nice and corrupt =]

The American Constitution has been dying a long slow death much added by the greed's and ambitions of wealthy and powerful men.

 

I hear you loud and clear. I wish there was something more that everyone could do in unity. But we've come so far from that, that now taking away our freedoms is easier than ever. =_=

 

I have to move to canada...

 

You are right that most of the founding fathers were not devout Christains. As I have already stated, many of them were freemasons, who are on good terms with the Catholic community. In fact, there was only one Catholic signer of the Declaration of Independance, and some may even say he was in fact a mason himself. But Charles Carroll, owner of vast lands and wealth in America, had alot to lose if the King found him out for high treason, so he was even prejudiced by his peers of Congress when he signed his name simply "Charles Caroll" on the Declaration, saying there must be numerous people in the colony by that name, and that Carroll was only looking out for himself. So what Carroll did, he marched back to the desk, and finished his signing by putting "of Carlton" right behind his own name. But do you know anything about Free Masonry itself? It called for a male adult, most commonly white as nearly everybody was pejudice in those days, to acknowledge any Supreme Being. The Supreme Being nearly all of the Founding fathers beleived in was God, Almighty. Therefor, the founding fathers were not devout Catholics, but even George Washington prayed to God heartfeltly at the winter terrors of Valley Forge (Sorry for the mix-up, Fort Neccesity is in fact the fort Washington founded, but had next to nothing to do with the Britsh surrender at Saratoga).

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, Country-wise, history-wise, or even political-wise. Can anybody name the first Republican President of the United States of America? The first Republican, not the first Democratic-Reublican, that would be Thomas Jefferson, elected 1801, the first U.S President of the 19th century, and the third President entirely. The answer is Abraham Lincoln, 16th President of the United states. During the time of the Civil war, and you can hear it even in National Treasure 2, if you so wish, I heard it elsewhere before NT, America was not "is", America the states were "are". They were divided from North and south, Mason-Dixon lined. It is because of Lincoln, as many know, we know live in peace as brothers as states, and as interacial peoples. Lincoln beleived in this country as much as any other President. Probably about as much as another predecesor, Andrew Jackson, 7th President, and the first solely Democratic party President. Now who is older than whom? Nobody. Democratic and Republican are about as old as each other, the only real practically gone party being Whig and Federalist respectfully. "One country, Indivisble..", if you take away the balanced division of these states, you divide us even further.

Maybe you think that, but please remember: Everybody wants Bush to be wrong, and no news, even conserverate news stations, wants to say there were in fact WMDs. So long as we keep to the norm the ignorants have taught us, we will be happy, potentially blown-up ignorants ourselves. As for "disfunctional Democracy", (FINE!), you tell me why Democracy is the worst thing on the planet, the only thing that keeps an entire country together somehow even though we don't realize it, and I will spit upon the dirt I stand on.

You are exactly right, and I agree with you. Democracy is not the problem, it is Politicians hiding behind masks on both sides that are the problem. Whether they be Republican or Democrats, rats run through the halls of Congress and the Senate. Don't think those few Corrupts pose much of a threat? Why don't you go ahead and ask the Roman Empire about that.

Yes, if there is one thing that I love, it is history. History of this nation most of all, because it links to so many other Historys, such as Catholicism, FreeMasonry, Hollywood, immigrants' historys, and many other differating historys. I have so many kinds of country blood in me, I don't know what I honestly am. Also, to note, My Grandfather's side has a longer history in America than my Grandmother's, as my Great Grandfather, the father of my Grandmother, entered the country during the late 19th century, and my Grandfather's history stretch back to Civil War times. It was in fact, during those times, an ancestor of mine, a man of French decent(Sp?), met an Native American women and had a family with the same woman. So, it is safe to say, I also have Native American indian in me. I'm not quite sure of which tribe.

Maybe..just maybe...the change you want is not the change we need. Perhaps.

Also, apparently, I have a very large "contempt" for Democrats. Let me shed some light on what you are alleging with next to little actual proof. My Stepfather, and my granfather, are both in fact Democrats. But as for both of them, my Granfather dislikes what the Democrats have done to try and obliterate the Catholic Faith, the Republican Party, and many other things that this country rests upon. Meanwhile, my Stepfather is just now pulling his life together, and this is the first actual presidental election he is partaking in. If he votes for Obama, the man Repilku feels I hate, I will love my Stepfather as much as I do before the election. I know both my Fathers well, both Biological, and my Stepfather, and I rever to them as parental figures equally. My mother shares this love as well, Despite the fears she has had in the past. Despite the norm Catholics no longer beleive in the Ten Commandments, I still Respect my Mother and Father, Number VI.

 

And you criticize me for being pompous.

 

Pompous is nice word to describe a person, if you dislike them. It would be a word I would use for anybody I would dislike. As for this forum, I wouldn't call anybody that. That word is solely used where I have absolutely no voice. Where I have been riduclued for my Religion, been called "Gay Jay(Just to spike me on my homophobia)", where people mock my very backgrounds, knowledge, and everything else that makes me, me.

Here, despite some people mistakeing my posts and trying to dogde facts, I have a voice. And I consider you all equals, even if you may think I hold myself above anyone else.

 

You're probably right. I apologize. I still feel, however, that while you told me to "get off my high horse", several of your most recent comments appear somewhat...overconfident, shall we say. As in, calling Repliku's post ignorant.

 

This is most probably the only time I have actually disagreed with Repliku, as I am usually very agreeable on his viewpoints. However, saying that Bush has ruined this country, and for the personal attacks on my mentionings of Barrack Obama, who i disagree with but respect to a degree.

Outside of the Discussion threads, I'm hopeing we can ignore the debacles of our viewpoints, and not become a school building of sorts where we all have comptempt for one another. Nothing is to be gained fighting.
I'll have to review my later posts to see if I had ever called any one person in particular ignorant but, if the word pertains to Repliku for the moment, I'll have to say the only time he has not seen the actual truths in anything, not everything, for once in his entire time that I've seen on kh-vids.

 

You did call me ignorant, but that was at a much earlier post.

Glad we were able to work this out peacefully.

 

That's bull.

They just need to leave the Constitution alone, we've been following it for the past 200 (I think) years.
It doesn't seem right to change it now.

 

Agreed. But that doesn't change my views exactly. Catholics meet with Freemasons on good terms, but that does not mean they are one. Republcians meet with Democrats, but they are also not one and have corruption within themselves.

Actually the Bill of Rights, more specifically. The founding Fathers penned the first ten amendments themselves and named them the Bill of Rights.

 

I understand that you will not be moved; I simply meant that we are no longer exactly "at each other's throats", as they say.

*Polka Dot*, they're not trying to change the Constitution/Bill of Rights, they're trying to destroy it. They want all the power for themselves (an unfortunate aspect of today's "power player" politicians.)

We are currently in what is called a liberal democracy (government is regulated by law and a constitution). I don't want it to become illiberal.

 

But Bush did ruin the country. Well, maybe not, he's a pawn to the people who own the country but either way he is (superficially) the one who ruined the country if you disregard the the people who actually do own it.

First we had 9/11. Then he passes the Patriot act, which takes away many of our constitutional rights and liberties, is passed. Then we enter an illegal war which does nothing and isn't fighting anything except some invisible terrorist which doesn't exist. Then the entire country's legislation and operations are essentially based around "anti-terror" legislation, and again, serve to do nothing except retract our freedom and individuality.


Also I'd like to say that people should stop b*tching about whether something is liberal or conservative, republican or democrat. Honestly. Who the **** cares? It's not like if I'm republican that a democrat somehow corrupts some "system." It's just a big illusion and to be honest I wish people would stop arguing over it and just agree on what is best, rather than separating eachother this way.

 

Agreed

But not all of the Politicians are in fact power players. The point is agreeable, but lacks some detail of who Power players actually are and how many politicans actually are.

I'm afraid even Republicans have been forced to take conserverative views, as you can't be both, but yet we are always hated for it. I guess you could say I'm a liberal Republican, just don't tell anyone *shush!*.

 

Oh, I didn't mean liberal as in the specific philosophy. By liberal democracy, I meant one where the government is regulated by law. I didn't mean that an illiberal democracy is a conservative democracy. An illiberal democracy is one whre the constitution is ignored or it doesn't exist. (And that would be bad for Americans.)

I'd have to view many members of Bush's administration as power players. I feel that through the passing of the PATRIOT Act, the currently debated Violent Radicalization & Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 (which would basically allow the gov't to arrest you for handing someone a Bible on a streetcorner), and now this bill, the government is excercising more power than they constitutionally have. They also seem to be focusing on attaining more control through the illusion of preserving our "safety", and not focusing on helping people (i.e., slow response to Katrina).

 

That's one thing I have to say is right! Why do we hate the President when it's a majority of the Bush Administrastion that screws up in Bush's name. I even think some of them are either corrupt Republicans trying to remove the Republican Party, or corrupt Democrats trying to do the same.

I mean, doesn't it seem a little weird that whenever we bash Bush, we're bashing something that was actually more infulenced by the Adminisstration? Isn't it a little odd that every time Bush does something stupid elsewhere, The Press is always there somehow under Influence of the Administration.

There's this book called Strategery By Bill Sammon, that actually tells about the good in Bush and the good in the Bush administration. I've only read a few chapters, but it's a great read.

Bush ain't the worst President we've ever had, but The press and Bush's administration thinks it might be nice if we thought that, though.

 

thats really messed up
anyone seen training day?
the popo can do what they did there
steal while his partner distracts u

 

I'm really not trying to get on you Base, but you have some very unusual concepts and ideas. Whose Administration is it...Bush's right? It's called the Bush Administration. He has responsibility to oversee things and he -is- responsible. This is not a fight over Dems and Reps. This is a fight of Politicians vs the Constitution of the United States of America. This is about the loss of personal freedoms in the attempts to make 'big government' where it is not meant to be so. If people want government to help with medical insurance, sure. We can take that even if some people don't like it. If people want support with Medicare, Medicaid, HEAP for electricity assistance, Welfare, Unemployment, Social Security, Public Education, etc, we can deal with it. Really, who even cares if someone is a Dem or Rep anymore? I personally vote for whoever matches the platform I want to see achieved, or what can be closest to it. Our views will differ on what we want to see done with this country but hey, that's what elections are about any way. So why do people see the Reps as being too powerful and doing stupid things...?

The Patriot Act and other such acts that have been instilled by the Bush Administration and this new one are all taking away personal freedoms that threaten the core of the American people as a free people. Bush -signed- them and put them into function. You may think Bush is hunky dory. However, I don't care -who- is sitting there signing off on these things; the person is corrupt and twisting the very foundations of this country around to take away our liberty and rights. We are multi-cultural. We are not meant to be spied upon or have our homes be broken into in this manner.

Had Bush or Clinton (who was given some info but later Bush was given more in detail) actually -acted- on the terrorist planned attack of 9/11 with the information the CIA gave over, well, there wouldn't have even been a 9/11 and no reason for the Patriot Act or going to a stupid war. Those behind the scheme were mostly people who were in pilot schools and their visas to even be in this country were expired. Bush could have deported them and walla, plan over. Instead, the inaction has caused us to be prisoners in our own country, we are involved in a war in Iraq we had no rights to go to, no matter how despicable Hussein was, and we are tons of billions of dollars in debt. He has used the Federal Reserve to also give people 'tax relief' which is nice for a moment but we owe that money back, don't we? We are going to -have- to raise taxes to take care of the war bills AND the money he has given out in an attempt to circulate business. It was -stupid-. Using the federal reserve as he has done is just poor money management and people out here who go and use a credit card and owe interest may have had some fun with money but it comes back to bite them in the ass. We are going to feel the worst of it and it is killing our economy already.

Whether McCain or Obama get the Presidency, in the end, people are left with an awful mess to fix up and we are all going to have to buckle down and see the reality that our system needs repaired. We also can't afford to be losing our freedoms so we become an even more miserable people as we have to fix our national debt. This is the downfall of having the Fed Reserve and Bush abused the hell out of it as if he were a kid in Toys R Us and told he can put anything he wants on the card. We ALL have to take care of this so why should we also now live with the fact that government people can invade the privacy of people's homes and tap any of us for phone convos etc whenever they feel like it? It is Muslims now and I'm sorry but there are -many- Muslim citizens in this country that are Americans. We are all Americans here in America. They have rights just as any of us do. Maybe if Bush had paid attention to the CIA in the first place, 9/11 wouldn't have happened and we wouldn't have ticked off so many radical terrorist organizations, hmm?

As for your Free Masons thing on the people who signed the Declaration of Independence etc... many of the people who signed it were Deists. This means that they believe in God but discount much of the Bible and believe that God does not interfere in people's lives. George Washington's 'prayers in winter' crap is a fictitious thing just as is the cutting down the cherry tree deal. It has been proven and it is nothing but rumor because Washington did not believe God would do anything and the affairs of men were left up to men. Thomas Jefferson was also a Deist and the first person to open up a public school that was not funded by a religion. It's not Free Masons we are talking about here, though yes, they also had an impact. There were people that were more religious but the point of this is that the Constitution was meant to be religion free so that all people could have rights regardless of what they believed because the people there themselves were not all of the same faiths and realized for peace to happen, respect of that would have to be acknowledged. Also, no one wanted the crimes of religion to come to the U.S. as it had plagued much of Europe and Russia etc. Logic is the reason that religion was intentionally said to be separate from State.

Also, I am very confused why you are acting like Catholics are now martyrs and have not done some of the most heinous crimes around. Protestants aren't innocent either. It is a known fact that Martin Luther was a bigot and hated Jews and Protestant religion along with Catholic religion has spawned off battles, murdered people under 'witchcraft' rights, purged Muslims and Jews from homes etc, and done so many crimes we could go on and on. Needless to say, not -all- Catholics and Protestants are bad people, and I feel confident to say most of them are decent people since I know quite a few and they seem pretty cool to me. But leaders corrupt religion to do what they want it to and some darn well believe they are within rights to. After all, the Bible is chocked full of pointless wars where the right to murder, rape, kill men and children, kidnap and claim virgins of the places they attacked, slavery and other things in God's name. This is why many Christians gloss over the Old Testament and also some of the New Testament and haven't even read the whole thing. Others who have read the whole thing and still believe in God have definitely defined what they believe in and what they believe is man influenced. Thomas Jefferson, who was a Deist, took the New Testament and rewrote what he figured were good standards to live by and influencing and removed all the bad he disagreed with as his own personal Bible and it was a rather small book. The point of me rambling on here is to say that this country NEVER had intended until the 1950s where we apparently lacked God, to put Church and State together. There are way too many crimes that are very heinous because of it.

Catholics aren't in any more danger than any other religion or lack of religion. They've gone on strong and it is -not- Democrats that are the enemy of Catholicism. How about the parents who had kids that were molested by priests? You don't think all those Republican Conservative parents were happy to find out what they did? Had the church not tried to bury the incident and put these people up to the law as you do with any other criminal, this would not be happening. Catholic religion has a bad name as does Martin Luther and some Protestant groups because they get involved in the wrong stuff. Is it dooming the religion? I would say not. There are still many functions the Catholic churches do. If anything the incidences have made the Catholic Church more 'humane' and realizing that they are responsible for their people too that work for them. People have seen the changes and it is a -good- thing. This is why it even has followers still. Without seeing those efforts made by the Church, many people would have said 'screw this'. The Pope would have no real power or influence anymore and we see that he obviously still does across the globe. So, can you please stop with the martyr card already? If anything in the last couple/few years, the Catholic Church has been left alone because they aren't doing anything so radical as say the Evangelical Protestants. Most Catholics I know are generally pretty calm and tolerant of other people and I've even gone in the church with my grandmother on occasion and some friends and despite me saying I was Atheist, they accepted my help to do projects etc with no bias and didn't harass me to join their religion etc. So in truth, I see the changes to the Catholic Church as a positive and they needed the eye opener. It's made them better and more benevolent, even if I still disagree on their policies of not getting divorces, birth control, etc. At least they are more accepting.

And to say in closing, you have been going on about how you are feeling against the wall because you are a Republican/Catholic. How do you think Muslim people who are citizens here feel about the signing of this bill? Some have lived here for several years and have parents, grandparents etc that came to this country just like anyone else. How do you think other Americans will feel having their rights violated because they hang out with some Muslims? Also, what can be taken as a 'terrorist' act to draw suspicion to use this bill? It really depends, doesn't it? The 'woe is me alone against the world' deal is just wrong. Right now any American should be saying 'woe is we the people' instead.