The Ten Commandments in Schools

You say just because you are 12 years ols you may be wrong about God not existing... Well by saying that you saying you could be wrong about anything. The point is, at the moment your mind is made up that he doesn't exist. You might believe in God one day or you might not but let's please talk about the present not maybe this or maybe that.

OK what I am about to say here is my opinion: No open your eyes and see that it's Catholic Church gets angry at you for small things, not God. Man, they wanna take over the world or whatever of course they're gonna be strict how else can they get around people? I've been to Catholic school all my life just like you I'm 17 and still in it. So why am i not angry at God? I never fell for what they told me. Because it is the Catholic Chruch speak all of this not God write that Cathecism book, build million dollar chapels and enforce all those suffocating dogma, all of it being way more in excess of the 10 Commandments ever were. So long as whatever is was, was accidental and you didn't go out of your way to hurt anyone, why would he get angry? I can't believe some people are so naive as to think they are condemned to Hell because they didn't recite the 'Hail Mary' 77 times or didn't make the sign of the Cross before breakfast. Yes, God does get angry at somethings, but all of us religious or not have a little something called a conscience inside us telling us whether we are doing right or wrong anyway. God is just. Not a nit-picker.

Ah, yes. A little off topic I agree but I should have seen this coming: the imperfect God argument. If God is here, why doesn't God come and pick up the pieces? Blame everything on God, etc etc. Every religion/spiritually has a different take on this. Well, are we going to do the norm and point the finger at God or are we as a human race going to rest the blame on the people who start the stuff in the first place? It's so much easier to shove it all on God isn't it. Did God tell Hitler to kill the Jews or Bush to start a war on Iraq?? No. Though, some may say yes. Did God give approval for slavery or was it the Pope? People do terrible things in the name of God and then the atheists come along and tar all of the Christains with the same brush. Oh but because God didn't zap all those warlords with lightning bolts or make sure they were never born in the 1st place it's his fault anyways I'm guessing. Well, as a Christain I can say that something much much worse is going to happen to them.

Humans have free will. The right to choose to follow him or not. And if you choose not to well fine it's your right. He didn't make us into God-fearing puppets or obsessive monks. But free will extends to daily life. So he wont bail anyone out because of any choices that have been made freely. otherwise it wouldn't be free will would it. If God appeared to everyone of us we are all guaranteed to believe in him; it may prove God but that proves nothing about a person and their faith.

You forget that in a Christian's POV we believe in a little something called an afterlife and no matter what befalls us here on Earth we will ultimately be with God in Heaven and there is no power on Earth that could ever separate us from God. That's why some people are persecuted to death for God. And it's not just Christians either it happens in every religion. It's fine for us to sit on our @$$ at home typing into the computer about how oppressed we are as theists or atheists and about the cheek of those Christians and the arrogance of the atheists and how we are all threating each others freedom but we are probably some of the on people in the world who can afford to do that.

 

Okay well after that rather lenghty first post (although intersting to read) I didn't wanna read all the others so this may be repeating others, and also I'm sleep deprived so this may not make sence....but here we go anyways


First off I am appauled at all the death mentioned in it, in my mind the only people that should be killed are child molesters there is no way I could EVER forgive them, I think it is HORRIBLE. As for murderes, unless it is a mass murder then I don't belive they should be killed, after all, people can change giving that they are willing to.

Moving on, you said public schools right? Well that's the thing, they are public and that means anyone can come learn, there are many people with many different belifes. Having such things saying 'folow this or die' in a area where all different kinds of people are going to be around, really dosen't seem right to me.

I didn't point out all that I wanted to say but that's some of the basic stuff that think people should at least take into account.

Sorry, I know I fail at spelling and grammar.

 

Wow I feel like I'm fighting a war here it's like 10 against 1.

Hmmm yeah maybe it is off topic but at the end of the day it's still belongs in the debate corner so why not discuss it? Sometimes one thing leads to another it's not extremely OT to the point of SPAM.

God is taking over the media? Or is the media trying to take over people's view of God? The only times God appears in the media are:

a) on the God Channel
b) He gets mentionned and there just happens to to be a guy in a mask with a bomb strapped wround his waist
c) To take the P - probably the most common and the saddest type
d) When some loony protesters are plotting the execution of gay politicians
e) When Christians are yet again conspiring to take over the world and threaten the World Order
f) Da Vinci Code, Jesus Christ Superstar, The God Delusion, Bruce Almighty, etc

So in other words in 98% of media coverage God is only put in for atheists to shake their heads in pity or digust for those deluded Christians who reckon that a bloke who lived 100s of years ago died... For what again?

Ha, the media almost has a fear of God. And the reason? Polictical correctness is something to do with it. Publish an article about the works of Jesus (which isn't slandering him) and you've been brainwashed for sure. God just doesn't sell newspapers nor does he create hits on a site. Publish an article about how Jesus was a pimp and had 666 concubines and you've got yourself millions of copies sold and a shiny new promotion.

Stupid about it? What do you mean? You mean extremist or just plain stupid about what they have the right to believe in?

Yes of course Christians realise they are human so you think I look in the mirror and see a halo on top my head? No. Do you think they are really that arrogant? This is what I mean about people tarring all Christians with the same brush. In fact being human is part of what Christianity is all about. Humans: being human is utlimately about making choices between right and wrong, this is what separates us from other life forms. And with choice, comes responsibility. The right to the make mistakes and learn. And in order for this to happen Christians need Jesus. Why do you think he came in the first place? To be a judge or a warrior (as the media might have you swallow)? No. He came to take away our sins because we are human and none of us are perfect. Why would he bother otherwise.

Played against each other? Well it appears as if you have subconsciously been played against others yourself. Again, it is not solely the Christians that do this as much as we might like to believe. This happens in every walk of life whether it be brother vs sister, one school vs another, Catholism vs Protestants or the Western world vs the East and soon to be added Planet Earth vs ET (sad joke thrown in the mix). The main divided on this planet at this moment in time is the West vs the East. Unlike Christian vs atheist it is more likely to cause devasting destruction to mankind. And, they will say this WvsE is Christainity vs Islam, which is not true it is to do with power, money and weapons. What use is God to the government without any weapons or money? No, let's use religion as a cover-up, a fabolous way to divide and conquer since people get so fantical about it. Christians aim to bring more people to Christ and be a witness onto other and sometimes this is peceived as playing X against Y.

Yes, you have a nature-based beliefs that's fine. You believe we came from nature, which is true. Christians believe that nature came from God. So maybe before you start looking at all those differences you should start looking at similarities between us. Christians too should recognise the importance of nature via numious experiences and being able to see God's works and love through what he created. Christians aim to preserve the beautiful things that God has made for us to enjoy. Nature is what he intended for us, not skyscrapers and council estates. So why blame it on the Christians as per usual? Well it is so much easier to blame it all on them, no? You should start blaming the people who are really ripping up the environment i.e. the government what with the growth of economy (that's all they care about, now someone come along and tell me this is all the Christians care about) and the carbon emmisions, rooting up rainforest, driving gas guzzlers and polluting rivers and landfill sites. Please, of all the things do not blame this on the Christians.

If you choose to believe that Christainity is a 'myth' that is your descion (sp?). Now we could take this matter to court and weigh up the evidence: did Jesus even exist or not? Some say there is more proof he lived than Julius Caesar. Others, such as yourself say there is undeniable proof that the guy never even walked the face of the earth never let alone on water. Will we ever really know? No. Not one of us alive knows. Why not? Because if we did wouldn't everyone get up and start converting to Christianity (which would prove nothing to God), or oppositely all Christians ceasing to exist. Christians believe it takes faith to get Heaven as the man himself said 'blessed are those who do not see and yet believe'. What do I say? I believe in Jesus more than the Earth around me, because what I feel inside, whether it be in my head or not, is more real to me than anything around me. So I don't need any science book or bloke with a Ph.D. to come and tell me what is or isn't right. And the same for you I'm guessing ^^ It's all about what you believe inside, not about what's happening on the outside. In other words what's inside of you as a person. And that's where all faiths should link but instead we go around critizing, mocking, denouncing and making implications on what others believe.

Me too I'm dyslexic ^_^

You're post is fine.

I'm a Christain who can't even spell Christain. It's either Christain or Christian I dunno.

 

(I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE YOU SPAWNED THIS NOTION, but I will try to answer it anyway.)
The MEDIA does not have a fear of God, the media has a fear of the people. God does not make these people "do these things", people find it in their rationale of what they ASSUME is God's will. But yes, there is a partial obligation that they try to be politically correct, PEOPLE have more power by the mobs and protests then we even give ourselves credit for.

Ok, see this is why "Christians get painted with the same brush" a majority of the ones that "SPEAK UP" TYPICALLY have the same ideas. And the quote that you responded to you did not even say "ALL CHRISTIANS" so please, do not paint all disagreements against your belief as attacks. Also, are you speaking for all Christians? Just a techinical detail question I know, but do you speak for them all?
Now on a more personal note, humans have free will to make themselves good. They do not need Jesus or any other religious figure to do so....DID YOU KNOW THAT PEOPLE COULD EVEN LOOK TO OTHER, EVEN LIVING, PEOPLE TO IMPROVE THEMSELVES? Just thought I would throw that out there.
P/S: At the apocolypse, Jesus is supposed to be a warrior who SLAYS all of the remaining wrong-doers (this includes non-believers; so kind for a savior). :\

I find it terribly ironic that you cannot find the truth in your own statement about "God (or more accurately, religion) being used as a coverup". If you demand an army, why not use a "common lie", it appears to be working quite WELL. Why, almost like any RELIGION vs ANY DIFFERING BELIEF inspired war out there (REF TO THE CRUSADES for a past example!).

Oh please, cease this "Don't blame us Christians again as per usual." Any on-topics of this thread don't blame Christians for things like say, GLOBAL WARMING. So, once more, though this REALLY sounds insulting despite my intentions, do not play the "victim" here. (You can easily call yourself the minority in this thread however, as that is accurate, but please....no "Christians are victims!") :\
Once again you're using that "Christians do this and do that", YOU just finished saying "You can't lump all Christians together" yet you're doing it. But anyway, the point here is that your "statement" is not entirely true. And if what you say WAS true (about the preservation of enviornments and such), well, WHY ON EARTH do you "Christians" BUILD such GRANDIOSE CHURCHES?! Churches aren't exactly divined into existence you know, so please clarify on this "preserving nature" that you speak of. (As well as all these "graven images" Repliku pointed out at some point- whatever happened to the self being the holiest of temples?)
And it was my understanding that you didn't need to be religious to want to preserve nature.
Also, that Government economy "ripping up" you were talking about....talk to the LEGISLATURE and the folks of the country! Also, economy is not talked about at all in the Bible, so "WTF" on that point that "Christians care about the economy". Now if I wanted to blame "Christianity" for anything, I would blame ignorant fundamentalist extremists against their hatred for people of "non-agreeable" sexuality as well as their (selective) "protests" against certain areas of science! But then again, I BLAME THE PERSON. (Think Medicine and Evolution, both are sciences acquired by the same method YET they only aggressively argue against one!)


*Insert what I have previously stated about you referring to yourself in the royal 'we' as 'WE CHRISTIANS"*
I will respect (I use this term LOOSELY) your beliefs, but in RETURN, you must allow a certain freedom for us to CONTINUE choosing our own beliefs and you must cease your public displays of your religion (AS THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE A BIAS ON OUR CHILDREN/FUTURE GENERATIONS)!
Now if we can come to terms with that, well then we're GOLDEN!

BACK ON TOPIC:
The reason why this is even here is to say that religious FREEDOM is ours to choose. Now in the land that is supposed to be known for its FREEDOM, why should it favor (which it techincally shouldn't) any religion over another? In other words, why should the 10C be present in any PUBLIC school?

Clearly it would be religious bias.

 

Not to point this out but you are so wrong. Every time there is a tragedy God is mentioned, and people praying to God to save them and the media goes into talking about it and telling people to pray and have hope, or to pray and hope the survivors left behind recover. Watch the coverage on the mining incidents.

Also, on the war, they constantly have zealots that go on the news and say 'the soldiers will burn in Hell for they sin against God' all the time, which yes, you mention. However, others send blessings to the troops. It's all the time on. You must have blinders to not see.

And EVERY holiday, even though the Christians stole them from others, especially Christmas and Easter, we get news media all about Christians, all the work they do and how great they are and how they are sick of hearing people turn it into a universal and store bought holiday of gift giving etc and how that tree is a CHRISTMAS tree instead of a Yule Tree or Holiday tree. We also get to see how the poor Christians go over seas and do so much yet apparently get so little and are martyrs. Those people aren't all Mother Teresas. Christianity is just about daily represented in the news in one way or another. It's on TV, in the paper, on the internet etc.

The media does not fear God. Some journalists might personally, but mainly the media would fear people and bad ratings, and since quite a few people are Christian in this country, they often are catered to. The other thing most on the media seems to be about celebrities because we all so much care about them for some reason. *yawn*. Perhaps combining that together as you suggested would produce a platinum sale. Found that amusing.

Please do yourself a favor and don't lump yourself with 'all' Christians. Some are horrible people just like anyone else and just happen to follow a portion of your own beliefs. This doesn't make them good. You aren't a martyr and shouldn't pay for the nastiness of some. You also said Americans would sooner burn down schools than see the 10 Commandments up. This is a slander against many people and rather silly. You may be sick of people slamming Christianity but Christians aren't the martyrs here. You have a lot more followers even if the Christian people can't all get along themselves. The 10 Commandments are horribly violent. They show kids and others the watered down version and not the truth. I don't feel it inaccurate to not want that on a wall to read every day. That doesn't mean people hate Christians. It means that they would cause more violence because Christians would be confused while others are dominated under an oppression of religion in schools that are supposed to be for anyone. Seriously, you have it backwards.

There are severe word bashings and sometimes even actions by militant Christian groups though it is downplayed. Of course we don't want Christians looking like terrorists. There are many fanatics and speaking of the war... Bush has used God as a reason why to back American ethics to keep the war going right on the news and to speak on behalf of the fundamentalists groups that are growing. Also, it is an answer to the zealot Islamic groups that hate us so much. I put my God against your God basically. However, he makes sure as do others that the Islamic God normally is the same God as the Christian one when non-extremists worship him. I am not a Christian. I don't want our president or any leader in a position to say something using God as a reason. Our country doesn't make decisions that way and if a leader is a fanatical Christian, he's not representing all of America by being so. We entered this war not for God but for a reason here on earth.

Some Christians do feel that nature is great and we 'need' it but others have gone under the assumption that God gave mankind the Earth to do whatever he wanted with it. It has caused problems. However, some great saints like Saint Francis did herald in some eye openers and were thanked for it later, even if during their lives they were sometimes seen as heretics. There are nature destroyers that are Christian and there are nature destroyers that aren't. In this country, since 80% on polls claim to be Christian of some kind, who is going to be labeled as eco-destroyers? Makes sense the dominant population could make fixes and yet does not all the time, or even as often as the other 20%.

I'm dyslexic too. I am ambidextrous and was forced to write with my right hand when 5 instead of the left I was..so now I use both sides of my brain, am ambidextrous...but dyslexic as hell, especially with numbers. -.- Let's all be slydexic together!

The point comes back to somehow, that was lost, is that in public schools, should the 10 Commandments be posted. The very reason why not is in this whole argument which shows that not everyone is Christian and yet 'some' Christians feel they have not enough representation. There are churches 'everywhere'. There are dry counties in this nation for religious reasons. Why do you feel that they are under represented? Christianity -is- forced on anyone not Christian all the time. So why in public schools? Let alone Judicial places? Why do you keep feeling that Christianity is oppressed, yet it is the one thing oppressing everyone else? It is EVERYWHERE. It's also the fundamental Christians (not all Christians) that are pushing for the 10 Commandments to be in public schools. So what if some of us push back and say no? Why can't we? Why is it every time we ask for equality and fairness it is 'putting Christianity down'? Why do Christians get to play the 'martyr card' when they are the dominant thing around? That's just not right. You may be sick of Christian bashing, but many others are sick of Christians dominating the way people think, eat, drink, watch tv, play video games etc. We aren't the oppressors here.

For those who go to church schools, they can post whatever they want. At public schools, it is clearly a reason to permit bullying, mistreatment and harassment of children that do not see the same way as others. The laws of the 10 Commandments also teach that death is the punishment for nearly any transgression, including cultural diversity. Christianity or any monotheistic religion isn't 'BAD' to me. Some followers though are. However, I fail to see how any other religion is bad either, or not believing in a religion is the biggest sin, and that is what the doctrines of the monotheistic religions say clearly, in the 10 Commandments, and Jesus does comment in the New Testament too. If someone said 'let's post the 8-Fold Path of Buddhism on the wall at school, people would be in more of an uproar, even though it is more a 'path' than a religious pursuit.

For someone who is a Christian, they may see no problem in posting something up like this because they see the nicey version and often themselves don't know the stuff completely. This is why I posted the complete version. However, my point is that I stand by my word and if something is posted on a school wall, court house etc, it is a code of rules and laws, correct? So if it is going to be there, it should be followed and adhered word for word and also posted in entirety. If it is not going to be there, then obviously it is followed on a person's ideals, not forced. Otherwise it is just eye candy to make some zealots happy while others have to stare at it and wonder why.

This isn't a bash on Christians or Islamic people or Jews. The simple truth is that not everyone is a monotheistic faith follower and public school means that it is for anyone. If we followed the 10 Commandments word for word, there would be a dramatic decrease in population. If all beliefs cannot be represented, none should.

 

If that was posted out my school i would sue.

Because for the people who are not religious or not Christain, that makes us feel bad.

So that should not be allowed to be posted