Tell me you wouldn't want to see this

I never said he was making sense.

 

I'm trying to figure out what he meant but... How does one gauge the strength of a goddamn sun?! I mean sure, Superman gets stronger the closer he gets to the sun but that doesn't mean that his strength is equal to the sun's... if it even has "strength".

 

The only reason you could even slightly say Bruce lost is because he was not the one standing at the end. The reason he was not the one standing at the end was because he had a heart attack, which he planned himself. At the end of the fight when they were fighting in the kryptonite dust Bruce was dominating Clark until Bruce collapsed. Bruce's plans succeeded. The only reason he "lost" the fight was because he planned to. I hate speculating like this, but had the fight continued I'm convinced he would have been the official victor. Also, the line that Miller gives him says it all, by all counts he is considered the victor of that fight.
You all are missing the point of the simplified example anyway. The point was to show how writers create certain conditions to make things that should not be possible possible. Without that Bruce wouldn't have stood a chance.

Spoiler

I haven't read any of TDSA but I've heard it's a little better than people give it credit for.[DOUBLEPOST=1379549609][/DOUBLEPOST]

Some stories portray his abilities as nearly infinite. I know in Morrison's All-Star Superman his strength keeps increasing until he dies. I've read very little New 52 but in H'el on Earth it's speculated that his power is theoretically infinite. Also, In the stories I've read he gains more power the longer he is in the sun, it has less to do with how close he is. Yeah, he flies to the sun sometimes but that's more to rejuvenate than to gain extra power. This explains how he doesn't have the abilities he is most recognized for till later in life.

 

He also killed King Piccolo and his minions, he even ate one of them if memory serves. And he killed a bunch of vilains in OAVs.

It counts as cheating if that' s what you meant, but legally (lol) the kill is on Goku nonetheless, that energy didn' t throw itself at Buu.

I think he meant Goku is strong enough to blow the sun up. Though he wouldn' t do it.

 

It's funny how people have this fascination with crossover fights. I really think it's a strange and out of place little quirk of humanity to want to see Wolfman vs Dracula. To want to see who's stronger. To want to argue it. Clearly, it doesn't matter in the grander scheme of things, but that's irrelevant because basically nothing is. So I guess what I'm getting at here is, why is there anyone who cares? What about power levels arguments and disputes that really works its way into people? So I thought about it for a while. I still don't have an answer, but I have some ideas.

So we've gotta decompose this problem into its constituent parts. Okay, so it's clearly related to fandom because only fans argue it and it's always fans of certain characters that get involved in arguments regarding them. There's also the very distinct, if considerably shrunken, divide between animu and comics fans. So that's part of it, but the rest is plain old competition it seems. People like being right. People like being on the side with the power, even if it is imaginary. Hell, possibly moreso since its imaginary because it doesn't make you seem like a coattail riding wimp in the same way following around the nearest muscle mass. So basically it appeals to us people because we're fans of the subject and we want to win the competition. We want our guy to be numero uno and all that nonsense. Okay, I guess that doesn't seem too weird.

But here's the rub,-- there always is one-- not only is this fiction that can never be played out in any meaningful way, it's also forcing characters out of their natural environment and into a blatantly artificial scenario that is basically just masturbation. I can't get with that aspect of it. It really comes down to the fact that it's crossover, I guess. It's two worlds that are as different as night and day being forced together. The physics are incompatible, the values are incompatible, the pacing is incompatible. The worst thing is that it's not really telling a story. It's just people doing what they want and sharing it. More power to them and all, but we really shouldn't be encouraging something like that.

Anyhow, I'm not a fan of this shit. I don't think it matters who would win. Characters are created to fill a role and they do that as they are supposed to. Taking them out of that context and dropping them into this one is like ripping pages out of separate books, shuffling them together and reading them in the order the fall. It doesn't work and destroys the whole point of the character. Oddly enough, the point of Goku isn't Kamehameha; the point of Superman isn't that he can lift a galaxy and a half; the point of any of these guys isn't what they can do, it's what they actually do end up doing. Having a ton of power doesn't make one character better than the other and vice versa. The two things aren't even vaguely related. I don't even think its because people are missing that that they do this stuff. It's more that they just don't care.

Summarily, I'm pretty fuckin' tired and I don't know how much of that made sense, but I'm gonna go with none of it when I look at this tomorrow.

/fanficsux

 

No it does make sense, it basically amounts to a dick size contest that completely misses the point. As long as people keep it civil (don' t get physical) I think it can be fun, whether they grasp and embrace the pettiness and futility of it all or not. Personnaly I' ve never liked watching football or whatever, not even when it comes to sports that I enjoy practicing myself, hardcore fans of any stripes are a complete mystery to me, and yet I can' t help reading that kind of thread when they pop up. Go figure ....

 

Two words: The Sentry.

He's overpowered as all hell, and as Jiku put it: strength and likability are not interrelated in the least. No one likes Robert Reynolds. I hate Robert Reynolds. The most interesting aspect of Bobby's character is how writers will endeavor to write him out of a fight, because any fight he engages in has a sure outcome: his inevitable win. He's an attempt at 'Superman if he had mental issues,' and this guy isn't even an adequate model for mental illness in comics. He's good for fuck all nothing, not even his [very very forced] weaknesses are interesting.

If you want to see representation among those lines, though... Hank Pym.

 

Batman. Was. Not. Winning.

And dominating? I'm sorry but if you consider getting kicked in the face as a character being dominated, that's just nonsensical. Superman held back that entire fight. Just because he wasn't actively trying to kill/injure Batman doesn't mean he was at a disadvantage. Had he wanted to, Batman would be a smear against the concrete. Batman, on the other hand, couldn't dream of harming the guy any more than a few cuts and a broken sweat, while he himself already had a crushed wrist, broken ribs, and plain ol' age.

And just because Frank Miller, someone who constantly enjoys writing Superman as a government tool, wrote a line of dialogue in which Batman proclaims himself a victor, doesn't mean Batman was actually able to beat a Kryptonian in a fist-fight (with Green Arrow's help and some prior fatigue from dispatching nukes, at that.)

I love Batman. I prefer him to Superman. I read The Dark Knight Returns years ago. I even had a God damn Batman snuggy. But he would not be able to beat Superman.

 

The fact that there is even a debate means ya'll are a bunch of tards.

Jiku says it best.

__//The end ...

 

But just because it's out of character and immensely improbable (if impossible), it doesn't mean we can't have some fun comparing the abilities and feats of fictional characters, or does it?

Key word though, fun. I myself have probably messed up on that part.

 

*walks in, looks around and walks back out* Nope because I have no interest in marvel and dbz fights take to long

 

Goku couldn't survive a planet exploding or something powerful enough to blow up a planet (Cell), Superman has. Superman has survived a Supernova. Even if Goku could (in theory) destroy a sun I still don't think he could beat Superman. And don't get me wrong, I like Goku. I like him more then Superman, I grew up watching Dragon Ball Z. It's just Superman would kick his ass.

Hey, I'll give Mill one thing.... he writes Superman better then women in his comics.

 

The idea was that Goku could blow up Supe' s energy supply. I don' t know much about Superman either but I remember seeing him robbed of all of his powers in a few Smallville episodes, just because Zod had turned the sun red. Problem is blowing the sun would also spell most of Earth species' doom, so Goku would never do it.

Alternatively Goku could just grab Supes and teleport on a planet where there' s no sun, or a planet full of Kryptonite, insta-win. If he knew someone living on such a planet that is, but I' m grasping at straws here. Goku loves challenges too much to do that anyway.

But I digress, I' m in the same boat as you. I was just trying to guess what Menos Grande meant.

 

But I don't get why Goku would blow up the sun...I'm pretty sure he'd die instantly from the force of the supernova. As much as people like to debate about the strength of Superman and Goku, Goku undeniably has much lower durability than Superman.

 

Plus honestly I think he's not ever close to being capable of blowing up the sun. Remember what he did in "Cooler's Revenge ".

 

I don't consider any feets or abilities shown in the DBZ movies to be canon. The movies are very inconsistent with representation of characters and events, save for the History of Trunks and the Bardock movie.

 

I hadn' t thought about the supernova, that would probably engulf the Earth. It' s a no no either way.
Goku could survive it though, worst case scenario he can teleport.

Freezer wasn' t as strong as Goku or Cooler yet he blew out entire solar systems. Hell, Goku' s old master (Kame Senin aka Tortue Géniale, no clue what his English name is) blew up the moon with a Kamehameha once (not to mention Arale did it several times by throwing rocks at it). Cartoon logic lol. ^^

 

I just meant that Goku is stronger than the sun, not that he will blow up the sun, His power level isn't limited to the current level of energy of the sun (like superman, he is just a battery). Goku can use the energy of the entire universe, Superman can't use better stars than the sun as only "yellow sun" energy works on him.