No Thanks Suggestion: It should be against the rules for staff to be invisible.

They aren't random numbers, but I officially hate posts like this. This is a problem. This literally amounts to disregarding all the ideas and even general thoughts behind a post.

Not once did you question why I said what you were saying was an excuse. Not once did you ask why it was an issue. Just a quick, emotional, and angry defense.

Again, one person on invisi is a problem.

Can you stay here? You're doing better than I am.

 

Yet you haven't exactly shown us why it's such a big problem if there are so many others who could also handle the situation who aren't invisible.

 

I listed examples already, Mr. Smiles :P

 

1. My post was not an excuse, it's fact. I'm sorry if you fail to see that.

2. I have been reading the posts in this thread as to "why it may be an issue", even though most of your posts are just copypasta of other people's thoughts and just re-stating over and over again that there's some kind of "problem" with being invisible. Believe me, I see what you're getting at here and while I do agree with some of it, at the same time I don't see any reason to overturn my decision. You can say blah blah appearances all you want, but that's just an opinion. I don't think my performance as a staff member changes whether I'm visible or not. Contacting me or any of the other staff isn't difficult, therefore there it is not an issue in my opinion. That's all I'm saying.

 

Depends on what 'good' reasons are.

I am going to state my opinions on the matter. I've read through the thread so far and am genuinely trying to be open-minded to everything, so please don't look at this post as an attack or me just being cynical about things. That being said, please read my post thoroughly and try to understand what I am saying with an open mind, as well.

I just want to explain why I personally prefer to stay invisible. I don't know if your main issue is with the higher-ranked staff like Super Mods and Admins being invisible, but you seem to be referring to staff as a whole, so.

First of all, I have no problems being involved in the community while I'm invisible. I've been on Vacation for about a month now, but I still get plenty of VMs/PMs/MSN messages when someone needs something. I'm also actively involved in the projects that I run and try to keep everyone who participates in them updated. I haven't had one person ever approach me asking why I was invisible, or saying that it was difficult to reach me. People tend to figure I'm only when they message me and I answer right away, which I always do. I have never felt the way that Jiku described, with absolutely no offense to her at all. I'm all about community building. I may not be 'visible' constantly, but I try to express it and bring people together in other ways.

I would hope that if something was -that- urgent, I'd be contacted regardless? I mean, if it's that important. I am also often available on Skype and on occasion MSN (only occassional because MSN chats completely mess up on my tablet).
Speaking of being on Vacation, because of that I am not on MSN as often and don't have as much time on Skype, but I used to be a regular in those off-site chats. They should be able to tell you? I have no problem or aversion to socializing with 'other groups'...

When something is needed that only I specifically can deal with, I'm generally asked. The -only- time it has ever verbally been "I won't message Jayn because she's invisible" has been with my graphic shop (not even staff related) and someone not knowing when I'd be online to accept their request, and that was months ago (they went to another shop, problem solved). I also still manage to do all of the typical sectional moderator things with absolutely no issue, on top of the extra things I'm involved with. I get questions and concerns about various things constantly, even with being invisible.

That being said, in the past I used to -always- be online. As I started getting more involved in things and became a staff member, I started to switch off and on. I would only be invisible if I was only on for a bit or if I was heavily multitasking. When that changed and I became -always- invisible was when certain members started to message me constantly about non-staff related things just because I was online.

I am genuinely sorry, I don't mind the occasional VM or PM, I really don't. It actually feels really good to be contacted. I have multiple ongoing VM conversations even now. But it is extremely annoying to be messaged at a constant as if visitor messages = instant messenger. It is extremely obnoxious to be working on something that actually IS staff or community-related and then suddenly 20 visitor messages just because.

And then you have the members who will start sending "hi jayn i see you're online, why haven't you answered me 'how are you' VM?" And I personally feel really bad about not answering VMs so those kinds of things really get me.

Hell, I have a phone number publicly on display on KHV just so people can reach me if needed. Everyone also has access to my Tumblr, Youtube and Facebook. It is not a matter of wanting to come across unreachable. I just personally have a lot going on on KHV and honestly the constant rush of random conversations gets a little overwhelming.

I honestly have to say that I think that kind of thing would be annoying to everyone, especially because it's non-staff related.

That being said, I would really prefer to have the option of invisibility. I am not saying -everyone- is like the above and I am not going to call anyone out, but you all should know that there are actually a lot of different members and groups on the site. Just because some may respect privacy and boundaries doesn't mean everyone does, and being invisible really helps me feel a lot more comfortable and in control. Sometimes I appreciate being able to seem 'offline'. If I get a VM, I don't have to worry about "WHY YOU NO ANSWER WITHIN FIVE MINUTES" because there's always the possibility I'm offline, and I don't have to feel guilt-tripped into answering. (Also, before I left for my break, I was on KHV CONSTANTLY. ALWAYS. So the messages never really stopped. I'm just now developing a 'life'. xD)

I would really like that not to be taken away, but I would also really not like to seem unapproachable or elitist.

Welp. Those are my personal feelings on the matter. There are multiple other staff members who may have other feelings, but this is how I feel and I wanted to share that. ​

 

I will be editing this post with my response. Just give me a bit. I want to read this post carefully and isolate my words to get a very specific meaning. With this much content, this will take time.

UPDATED WITH RESPONSE:

Okay, I get what you're saying. You're just forgetting this isn't everyone's modus operandi. In fact, not even close. You've chosen a very personal approach, and that's good. However, I still think being visible would only aid this.

I DOOOO see what you're saying about being bothered. But VM's can be disabled. People can be brushed off and told "Hey, I'm busy, talk later." New people can't look at the list of online members and know who's there to help them and guide them if they hide. Personal comfort isn't really the issue here.

I'm sorry if I scrunched this, I just kind of saw the same issue here with Misty's and RVR's posts, as in you're viewing it from a personal perspective. Like this is an attack because users are trying to enforce a rule on staff members. It's not. It's an attempt to dramatically improve both communication and presentation. I think an issue here is staffers have an issue viewing things from the perspective of a user unable to see the staff forum. Especially new ones. It's the lack of objective thinking and overall benefits to the site that annoy me here...

Example: I had one day at work where I worked a twelve hour shift and got jipped by only being allowed to take a half-hour break that day. Just one. I went outside and someone came up and asked me a question. I didn't have to, but I spent my entire break talking to them about cell phones and trying to get a sale. Why? Because it's my job and it helps myself and my store in the long run. I could've taken off my shirt and badge and just walked outside in civies, but I choose to represent where I work when I'm not on the clock. This should be true for every job, including a volunteer one like staff. A staff should represent everything a staff is supposed to do and wants to accomplish at all times, even if it's at an inconvenient time.

 

The issue isn't performance. The issue is communication and connection between staff and members. I personally didn't know you were invisible most of the time your're online until I read it in this thread. And if an older member such as myself didn't know that, how would a newer member? They, just like I did, would think you are offline and thus unable to respond. It feels like a shot in the dark if a member tries to message an invisible staff member and they probably won't even bother because they believe they won't get an immediate response.

 

~Dear Jayn, I edited my post as I said I would.~

1. An excuse is anything that's trying to justify and avoid an issue rather than taking an approach to fix it.

2. >Overturn your decision

I'm not even going to express my issues with this wording. The rest? Ben said it well enough.

 

But that's what I was trying to originally explain though. The reason I went invisible is because people would contact me when I wasn't even there, and I felt bad because they may have assumed I was and never contacted anyone else.

Also for the record I haven't been invisible for as long as people like to think, and it probably won't be permanent in the long run. It's nothing new for me to switch back and forth.

@At Shadowjak: So basically you're saying if I don't agree with you, everything I say is an excuse. Because in your eyes, the only way to "fix" the issue at hand, is for all staff to no longer be invisible. Since I am disagreeing, it is somehow an excuse because I am not taking the steps to make myself visible, and therefore not "fixing" the problem. Yeah, no. That's now how suggestions work buddy. You should know that by now.

 

But why can't you appear online when you are?

 

Pretty much, this.

It really is a simple click.

EDIT: Oh look RVR, I can't tell if you're viewing this thread/replying or if you've went to bed. Same for Jayn, but minus the sarcasm and derogatory comments because she's trying.

 

You're been invisible since 2011, so that's a long ti-- *shot*

Anyway, I'm kind of a neutral on this and can see both sides of the debate.

 

Your posts are coming off as being unable to accept any form of criticism and unable to accept that maybe a compromise or even an attempt at discussion rather than defense would be more beneficial to the thread. Who's worse?

Seriously, did you forget YOU SERVE THE USERS? Did you? After all these years? After all that time when we were both promoted during the same time period? Did you really forget that?

 

Because I don't feel I am online for long enough periods a time where I should need to switch back and forth. Plus I'm not going to always remember to do so.

So is reporting a post. I mean come on, if you really need to contact me personally about something, wouldn't you send me a PM regardless if I was online or not? It doesn't matter who takes care of something, as long as it's taken care of.

 

I can personally say I've strayed from sending you many PMs and just preferred letting things get out of hand because I felt someone of appropriate power was not around.

 

Progress has been made today. Thank you Jayn for being an innovator.

 

Just gonna quote myself here:

 

For the last god damn time. What the hell is there left to discuss here? I already told you what I thought. Now you're just whining because you're not getting things your way. How can I "work towards a compromise" when the only possible solution is to either

A. Keep things as they are

or

B. Make some kinda of rule where staff are denied the right to be invisible?

There is no other solutions, am I wrong? OR is there some other option you're just willing to share with us? Because so far you haven't suggested anything useful.

And man, don't even try to feed me this "serving the members" garbage. I've been staff long enough to know what the job entitles. The decisions you made back then were your own, and doesn't have any relevance now.

 

>Garbage.

Okay, not posting the obvious "what do you think you'd do without users" response and ignoring this. I don't need to get angry, it only makes us look bad and holds this thread back. There's only a personal attack, a dictator like judgement call (BRING THE HAMMER DOWN!), and a near blatant admitting you haven't read this entire thread within your post. I don't need that here. Feel free to get out.

------------------------

Dear Jayn, I cannot rep you back. But thank you for listening :) You're a very reasonable staffer and do your job incredibly well. Your wall of text was worth the read if it leads to resolutions.

 

At this point I feel like it's good enough that several members have effectively voiced their opinions and probably will continue to do so. There isn't a need for argument, though. We now know how people feel about the issue and should take it upon ourselves to take from this what we can and act accordingly. If you felt you got nothing from being here, sorry for wasting your time. If you felt like you got a better perspective something, you're welcome. This topic shouldn't have to end here or anything but no one is benefiting from a protracted argument without a reason for either side to budge.

Perhaps I'm being optimistic, but I feel like talking this out was a good thing and may have at least helped someone.