Rules

But the thing is nobody is acting a way ESPECIALLY to new members. We're acting a way to EVERYONE based on how they act, there's really no discrimination. Newer members should be encouraged to lurk before posting, get used to the culture of the forums before coming around acting like the place should pander to them.
Remember we're not acting a particular way to the newer members it's just that the newer members are the ones who you hear the complaints from, going "Don't worry, we'll act nice to you until you hit Prem or have been here for 3 years" wouldn't be fair at the least considering there's newer members like Makaze who seem to have fit in just fine without the special treatment.

 

But in this case the slaps are only as hard as the members take them. Things have been like this for years here, the people who don't like it chose to join this community so they can choose to adapt to the spamzone or not post in it. There are other sections, we aren't like that in all of them, so let us have our one.

No, it's not exactly like that. It's more like Someone and possibly their friends saying something that insert members don't like or agree with out loud for everyone to hear on purpose (Because no thread is an accident and everyone can see the threads, people know that when they post them) and then they decide to engage the OP because that is the point of a thread. The ridicule comes when people bring it on themselves. It's always been like that. How do you think I got like this? It was done to me long ago and I adapted. I learned the customs and the ways that things are handled here and rose in the ranks. We ridicule because we want these members to see their faults and improve on them to better contribute. Hero of Time is a prime example of a member who has had his ups and downs with us, but is working to adapt to the previously established ways and fit in. And he's doing well in my book.

Some of us are just comfortable with everyone. Like I've said before, the spamzone is like a friendly mosh-pit. People should watch and learn before they jump in, because we expect them to know the ropes at least somewhat.

Our intentions have been made known, we're dealing out some semi-tough love to the ones who want to be apart of our little spamzone community yet can't handle all of the traditions. We don't control how they see it.

 

Allow me to make it a bit clearer?
The members in question need to be a tad more careful but at the same time we will not try to impose on the content of their humour otherwise, along with allowing them threads in the Spam Zone of that sort as long as they do not break the rules?

What would you prefer to be the terms you wish to add to this compromise?

Right!
Let us admit that the staff were perhaps too reactionary in regards to locking that particular thread. Let me go ahead and unlock it.
Again, we honestly do not mind complaints as you can see here, but they are taken more seriously if they are brought to a location where the environment in question is more serious.
But we ask for you to keep the complaints civil as you can. Joking complaints are fine, but serious insults and serious rude comments may certainly be a tad overboard.
The thread has been liberated.

 

I'm reading this post in the tub tonight it was so good.

For the record, Envy is correct. When he got here, was a complete dumb***. He adapted quite beautifully.

Read Envy's post. As he said, we just want our spamzone community. If you can take the initial roughness and not report people 'being mean )':' then you will adapt in it nicely. There are other sections, that is just where we choose to have fun.

 

You aren't exactly a good example, Fork. You're extremely laid-back and I'd be surprised if you took aggressive action against anyone.

It's not just a feeling. You may be offended but it is hard to deny that locking threads and forcing members to approach staff more directly counts as shutting us up shooing us away. It's akin to shutting down a protest and instead telling people to take it to court. Many people won't take it to court but you're stopping them from protesting, so nothing happens.

Like it or not, the staff intimidate many people. Many feel that appeals do nothing because they mostly have done nothing. Say what you will about attitudes and wishes and make claims about what the staff will do, but input is continually shot down.

For example, if I come to a staff about an action and it was decided on by a few staff, they will claim that I do not know the full story and that coming to them about it without the full story is counterproductive. If I ask for the full story, they claim that members' privacy must be kept or simply that policy forbids them from disclosing it. It is a circular argument.

In the end the member is told that the policy is the way things are done and that if you don't like it, we're sorry, but you can post a thread in Suggestions.

In the end, you are not allowed to question staff in the open. You must PM them or post in Suggestions. Neither of which have proved helpful.

It really isn't a very inviting policy, whatever you individual staff members may feel.

 

This is kind of illogical. This paints a picture like so:
>Plan of action not working
>try it again
>repeat

We don't bottle it up. I especially let it be known when I have an issue and make a thread about it, and the majority of the time it's locked before the discussion can begin.

 

On the contrary, I think the staff took the Spam Zone thread more seriously, and that is why they thought it needed to be locked. Too dangerous to keep going. Wolfie gave that impression rather directly.

I appreciate the gesture and hope that threads will not be locked in the same way again, but I expect the behavior to continue given the "new" rules.

 

While it is a nice gesture, it really kind of doesn't give you guys your compromise.

 

The bullying and rude comments do exist though, and there are times when joking can be taken too far. Heck, we have received notices from new members and older ones alike, though I used the new members as an example there because it was that particular divide which has increased most recently as has been noticed. One can act just as humourous without having to resort to purely disparaging comments and continue to fit in among the populace. It is a bit harder to compare the aforementioned newer members among themselves because each individual has their differences in regards to their characteristics, which is why I reiterate the importance of trying to make sure everyone gets along. Different reactions to different circumstances. One still has to be careful with what the post in regards to whom. There are different ways one would treat their close friend and say, a stranger of the opposite sex and elder age on the street, no? And even in this case, the members in question will understand the quality of the forum and their own methods of adapting through it by looking at how the forum members typically joke with each other. It is just trying to keep a higher degree of courtesy in general when you can.

 

We do not feel that any form of bullying or insulting members can be justified. Maybe people need to grow thicker skins, maybe they need to learn to take things lightly. That's all well and good. I agree with you. But we do not want KH-Vids to be the place for that; maybe that's the way "thing have always been," but why are we shackling ourselves to that past? KH-Vids isn't the elementary school play yard. It's a website where we want people of all ages, from all walks of life, to have a good time. Being ridiculed until you either break or learned to harden yourself to it isn't a place for a good time. It's not about when you joined; as others have brought up, there are recently registered members who have joined in on the unsavory behavior, and older members who have been the target. People on each side of the issue, is what I mean to say. But we do not want to any longer allow this attitude on the site. That is not where we want to lead things, nor the atmosphere we want on the site. I apologize if you guys disagree with that but that's where you'll find that I, much of the staff, and I'm sure many of the members, are adamant. We tried to reflect that in the rules and may have come down too heavy, which is why this thread was posted.

Saying "this is how things always have been" is clinging to the past. We want to move the site forward and away from negative energies. If you disagree with that then maybe this isn't the site for you any more. Nighttime was dark until someone invented the lightbulb; it had its opponents, was new and unfriendly, but nonetheless, eventually embraced.

Basically what Ashwin said, who posted as I was typing

 

There are ways to keep things fun and continue to even poke light fun at members without having to go overboard, though, and the overboard quality has increased recently. People do get offended for good reasons from time to time - not every reason is a whining excuse. And even then there are attempts made to make sure the members understand that the forum has this rough quality. I have personally told many members, even before my time on staff, that members with whom they have been in conflict are usually quite always like this and they may get used to it.

 

Okay dealing with Lux's ban, if you want to, talk to me about it since I was the one that issued the ban.


Alright first off, I want to apologize to anyone and everyone to whom I've been rude towards. I've said things to others and I do know that what I did was wrong. I understand where you are all coming from. Look after certain events of where bullying occurred, I've been worried that some people take it to heart. I know what you have all said "It's the internet, it doesn't matter" or "They shouldn't take it seriously,". Seriously, you can't tell that to some members because they probably did take most of what people have said to heart. I know I have, I'm not afraid to admit that, I took everything seriously and no matter how hard I try to just take it like a joke, some things still hurt. People come to forums for other reasons than deciding to poke fun at others. That being said, I just worry that what people are saying may be affecting others. Like the quote goes, "it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt". I'm sorry I genuinely care for others.

I would like to understand where friendships tie among members. I had misconceptions between the relationships through threads because I make threads to members that I've close with, calling them random inappropriate names that they would not have any affect on. However I know how I should act with my friends and with other members. I can't see the ties between others. Want an example? I had told Luxord that what he was doing to Llave (last year) was somewhat borderline bullying. However, I wasn't sure if Llave was hurt by what he said or just took it like a joke. So of course, I just told Luxord to just apologize. Sometimes I can't tell between it. I'm sorry, I'm only human and we all make mistakes.

Rules are there for a reason, I knew many of you would not enjoy the revised rules. My concern is mostly with new members who do actually take what many of you say to heart. do I want to see them hurt? no of course not.

I don't really know what else to say.

 

I'm not interjecting because your post was ignorant or anything like that, but just because the simple solution here is to tell the complaining member you'll talk to the member they're complaining about, get their side of the story, and make a judgement call BEFORE warnings and locks be thrown about. New rules don't need to be put into practice, nor a new level of harshness, and letting a complaint like that (on the internet...) ruin everyone else's fun seems.... eh.

 

Eh. It's moreso me disliking the fact that you guys are accusing us of things we never intended to happen. I've had the pleasure of working with the staff for almost two years now, and gotten to know all of them pretty well, and trust me when I say that this is just a huge bump in the road.

The reason we lock threads is so things don't get out of hand. A majority of the time, when complaints are posted, there are always two sides, and insults get thrown. So it's our natural reaction to lock the thread and keep the peace. Obviously a lot of times this doesn't work out as well as we had hoped. It's not the most perfect policy as you've pointed out, but we try to stick to it for reasons myself and other people have already mentioned. But hey, you guys are posting your complaints now aren't you? At least it's a start. All we ask is for things to be kept more civil, and vocally less angry.
But seems like things got de-railed anyhow.

 

tldr: the way you guys have fun is no longer to be tolerated and we will not compromise and thus this thread is actually pointless

I don't understand how jokes and image macros are being cracked down upon, this is the goddamn internet. You wan't us to have a good time, and that is how we do it. You're basically telling the people having the most fun or at least doing their best to have fun and make fun for others to join in on that they can't have fun. You say this isn't the playground but lets face it: the internet is the playground for most of us because regardless of if this is a kids site or not most of us are young adults. Why can't we have one section to let of steam?

 

We can't handle everything on a simple complaint basis. Many people will be too hurt or afraid to complain--and I hate to bring this to an extreme, but what if you hit the exact wrong button, hurt someone who really cannot take at that time, and they resort to something extreme. Cyberbullying is real and countless teens are lost to it. Maybe those people shouldn't be on the internet or they were weak to begin with, but they're here nonetheless. I'm not saying this is where KH-Vids is right now but it's someplace I never want it to go.

 

Who doesn't want KH-Vids to be the place for that? Is this the staff speaking, or the members?

While it may be the way things have always been, they might as well have said that things have always been progressing. You are suggesting that we stop the friction that allows people to grow. Without insults, without criticism—without things for people to get cut on, this site will be nothing but banal chatter and no real friendships will be made unless through PMs or other means outside of the forum. You will say that you don't mean to cut out criticism, but each post sounds more radical than the last. In the end, the staff define criticism, and all of the qualifying language does nothing to change the result. You are suggesting that stagnation is something new, that progress is a thing of the past. It just isn't computing.

See this post, for example:

You are getting closer and closer to saying that the staff need to become White Knights of Justice because they feel that someone might be offended.

Oh, and What?, that thread is still locked.

 

We have repeatedly said in this thread ( mostly through Ashwin, but all of what he has said is representative of the staff ) that we are willing to lighten up here if you guys acknowledge that you are purposefully hurting other people that you know cannot "take the joke." It needs progress on both sides.

Somehow I think that if I posted a poll asking "do you want KH-Vids to openly allow bullying, yes or no," the nos would win out.

 

Derailed from what?

Serious question, I'm wondering what you think it has been derailed from. As far as I can tell the original problem of people being shut up has stayed the focus.

If you mean Jiku's comment, that was just in support of one post. The overall mores of this movement is that we feel censored.

 

If I recall correctly this is actually done in a few instances, yes. But even then, there are a few things. Say there is a scenario where, from a basic perspective, unattached to actual intent or joking, member A is insulting member B. There are a few ways one can go by this. In one way, it is very clear that member A is insulting member B through context and everything, thus a judgement is made and they are reprimanded for it (hopefully by say, a verbal warming or some such). That is all good. In a second way, it is understood that member A is insulting member B out of jest and is known for this type of behaviour. In this instance a judgement is made in such a way that focuses more on trying to help curb member A's behaviour, to an extent. Right. In a third situation, we personally ask member A their story of why they insulted member B and they could give a number of answers. Let us use the examples of member A actually disliking the person and being bad-spirited or member A just joking around again. In both cases I would assume the judgement would be made in member B's favour (with the disliking-member-B option being much easier to judge, and the joking option simply telling one to tone down on their behaviour). The complications with the second result arise with whether or not the joking is a sincere statement or just an excuse to insult an unfavourable member. And when action is taken in such a manner, member A may become defensive and use such an argument. I am not saying this is always the case, but with the case of things like blatant insults, it can and has happened from time to time. I am all fine with focusing more on the other side of the story but the judgement passed may not always be favourable to the perpetrator in the incident, which would cause complaint.

I would also like to point out that the seriousness does not really change on the internet. Certainly, you can be less serious than an offline encounter, but that is definitely not a justification for acting rude. Simply because the medium of communication has changed does not mean insults may still sting. Insults are insults whether they are screamed into your face or delivered to you by phone from halfway across the world, and they can still offend people because people cannot always control their emotions in regards to the situations which can trigger offense.