Rules

It's admirable that you can admit to your own short-comings, albeit, I personally actually haven't seen such content from you myself, although I may be wrong since you yourself are saying it.
Regardless, you admitting to such things doesn't solve the issue that it has happened whether by you or by others, and will likely happen in the future too.

Which you'll notice is why I didn't post names.

I mean no offense with this. But THAT, exactly what you said just there, is the thing we always hear to anything we try to give our opinion on too.
The staff have discussed it, so therefore no other opinions must count at all.


and gah!... So many posts, trying to respond and keep up, but can't.
Will try to cover what I've missed next post.

 

But there is a reason that such occurs beyond simple comfort. As was stated before, discussions elsewhere have a greater potential to become massively informal or lose the original point of the topic, which is why this section exists - not simply to ease the staff with dealing with suggestions, but to ease everyone. I agree that the Spam Zone has more activity than this section, but that is why one can simply spread links to one's suggestion thread, no? The Spam Zone contains a quality of discussion that, though certainly not always, can and primarily is lower than that of the expected forum, in which posts are encouraged to stay on topic of the suggestion discussion in question.

 

I just think it disrespectful to discuss what Luxord did that got him banned, and it's not really the intention behind this thread.

 

This is the open. This is a public section, a public thread - not PMs or IMs or things that the vast majority of people would not be able to see. When an issue like this comes up, it's far better to keep it all in one place rather than have it potentially lost in somewhere like Spam.
If anything things could spiral out of control there, and if you're actually trying to solve a problem, there's no need to risk that easy derailment.

 

Namely because there have been complications regarding public ban discussions numerous times in the past, typically of the derogatory nature from one side or the other, as I have noticed.

But anyhow, yes, appeals upon the rules would be wonderful.

 

Look I’m just wanna give my 2 cents on the matter here. Until maybe a few weeks ago I didn’t know many many of the things I know now because I've never posted much and I haven't been extremely close to that many people. I thought everything on KHV was perfect and that there was no drama, but I learned that wasn’t true- many things weren’t true. I’m not going to give out names or events for privacy reasons so I kindly say-don’t ask but people HAVE been hurt by the staff in the past and it’s not right. I hate how there were and still are members treated wrong not just by regular members but by staff. If these rules are going to be in enforced then the Staff should follow these rules too because they are an example to everyone else and if they don’t follow them why the hell should we?

I don’t know if I’ll reply to this thread, but yeah that’s just my 2 cents and I’m sorry if anyone is offended or anything.

 

Read and consider my first post in this thread? Allow me to reiterate.

• The staff claims that they will listen and that they do listen, constantly.
• The staff shoo members away from discussing things in the public. It is always suggested to take it to PM or a Suggestions thread.
• The staff lock threads that break no rules if they contain criticisms of the staff.
• Posts about this subject get sidestepped, and only the words that the staff are willing to consider get through. For example, Jiku's suggestion is the only thing being taken seriously. While the staff's actions today have been horrendous, they are not being discussed but instead Jiku's suggestion is being brought back up.
• The suggestion chosen does not involve the rules changing or the behavior of the staff today being reconsidered, but only a clearing up of the rules already posted. Nothing about them will change but the wording.

From this we can deduct that the staff have no intention of listening to criticisms of their actions, even in this thread. At best, they will reiterate their policy and cherry pick one request from many as if it embodies all of the problems that have arisen.

My suggestion is that you allow members to speak of you without censoring and where they please so long as such discussion does not break the rules.

Thank you for your consideration.

 

Things like bannings and infractions have nothing to do with other members cept staff and the one being punished. It should not be open to debate from other members. It'd be chaos if it were. Perhaps not your point but its been mentioned awready.

 

Yet Mish (I think) had to post telling everyone to get back on topic here as well, so I don't think "Topic" really could be used as an excuse. Its just the people posting on a thread, In the spam zone they just feel less intimidated which is why they might wander more there, but the same thing could happen here.

 

To elaborate more on this, it's a matter of privacy. Plastering Luxord's case all over the forum for all to get involved in would not only be disrespectful for him, but would also prolong the process and stress everyone out. Imagine if you were banned and had everyone on the site debating the case? People who ostensibly dislike you may rather forcibly advocate for you to remain banned, not to mention there's also the chance of having their friends vote on their side.

Allowing the staff to do it limits this bias (to an extent), as well allow for a more personal 1-on-1 (sort of) resolution, as opposed to a 230-to-1.

 

He wasn't the one who hacked khv and I'm sure everyone here knows it. But aside from that...

My previous comment was me more addressing the issue itself being:

*Member gives an opinion about something the staff have discussed.*
*Since the staff have 'discussed it' that member's opinion becomes completely invalid and is considered wrong.*

I appreciate that the staff may make decisions for a reason, and a line has to be drawn at some point to stop the discussion, but even in one of the cases being mentioned by Makaze here; the case of whether certain threads should have been locked or whatever. It's a case of...
*Staff have discussed it and decided to close it.*
*People give their opinion saying how it wasn't necessary that it should be closed*
*staff ignore opinion entirely because it's already been discussed by staff*

That's one of the things that causes such a divide. The staff have discussed 'it', but not given the regular members a chance to discuss 'it' with them in turn.
Admittedly, you've made a thread now to allow a discussion of sorts, but even then while it's directed at the current rules, when people have bought 'it' up (in this case the locked threads I was using as an example), it's being dismissed because it's off topic or as wrong or whatever.

 

If members wish to post a thread in a section where it may veer off topic, then let them. Censoring the thread because it has the potential to veer off topic when the thread starter didn't care about that simply cannot improve the situation.

Exactly, that is my point. They could spiral out of control—by the staff's standards.

The reason to risk it is because the members want the thread to keep going. I'm not sure what you're afraid of. Locking the thread is, has and will cause more strife than letting it derail.

 

While it is possible, the degree of topic derailment would be of a much wider variety in the Spam Zone. At least the topic derailments in this thread are still related to suggestions and changes with the conduct of the staff, no? Along with the fact that it is fairly hard to get back to the original topic when there are still concerns from members regarding these problems and it would be unjust to leave them unanswered. Even then, this thread is a special case - an exception, if you will, since it is moving extremely fast, was created out of recent reactions, and appears to contain a large amount of the presented problems by the members. Otherwise many suggestion threads - the huge majority of them, if you take a look even through these two pages, stay on topic. This is in direct contrast to even a single page of a Spam Zone thread, where derailment is more common than a suggestion thread.

 

This will be "my" last post in here. You were just discussing his ban between him, I just added a little twist in the words. If Lux was being reviewed then he would have received word on it. Hell he should have at least gotten a sticky note saying, "We're putting your review on hold so we can hurry up and get Rainshine out of the way.

Oh it's alright Misty. Luxord says that he is actually happy someone is caring enough to even attempt to discuss what he "did." What did he do? Make a thread saying he was going to hack the site. Did he hack the site? Nope. If you truly want to discuss or "review" then I'll be happy to relay that Lux is ready for you right now on MSN. There's just one condition he asks. No talking down on him and he won't talk down on you.

 

This is pretty much what I've been saying. The threads locked today all had no reason to be locked, broke no rules and didn't cause any strife until after they were locked. I don't see how the staff can't see that locking a thread where we're not doing anything wrong or locking a thread like Hero of Time's thread about his girlfriend cosplaying could do anything aside from rub us members who have been "on thin ice" the wrong way.

The Challenge has been issued.

 

And we're thankful that you've explained it and brought it to our attention; I doubt any of us have been doing it consciously or on purpose, but there are just some matters we cannot allow to be plastered over the forum (like people's bans, which have already been adequately addressed by others, I think). I agree, the staff should be subject to rules laid out regarding bullying and what have you, but we do also reserve the same rights given to you guys: not to have call out threads made publicly insulting us. I acknowledge faults on our side, truly, but I also don't think problems have been caused solely by the staff. We were unaware of a lot of these problems before you guys brought them up because we don't have the benefit of being able to see things from a 100% member perspective, correct? Well, you all likewise do not have the benefit of seeing things from a 100% staff perspective. We should try to reach an understanding between those grounds. There is a separation between members and staff, but the barrier works both ways. Of course, we have power to be used, while members? not so much. There is a lack of parity there, but I think we should all understand there are faults on both sides of the issue. What is needed that we all understand each other and try to treat each other fairly in this thread; not make demands, not accuse, not bring up the past, but work towards a better future for both sides.

 

What exactly will locking threads in Spam achieve?

They have broken no rules. It seems only fitting to wait until they do break rules to lock them. The only reason why you even had a string of threads appear is because you locked one originally while no rules were broken.

You being the staff collectively.

 

Alright let me just say this if I may...

You guys really need to stop listening to a very vocal minority. There are MANY times where two or more people will be debating about something and then someone will come out and accuse everyone of being hostile to eachother when nobody was being hostile to anyone and little to no bad blood was being made. Suddenly the thread get's locked because people are supposbly being disrespectful to eachother when in actuality that wasn't the case at all, it's just a few members getting upset that not everyone is talking about happy happy sunshine and rainbows.
Swearing, reaction images, stuff like that are meant to be funny and tease other people and they've been this way for THEE longest of time, you have to understand that a MAJORITY of the members here have no problem with me posting laughingwhores.jpg as a crude reply to whatever they were saying; yes they may say "Yeah well screw you to Jube" but that's just playful bickering, the only time it get's out of hand is when the vocal minority screams that everyone is so hateful and needs to get along. Those people don't represent kh-vids for the most part, don't completly shut them out but make them understand that there are customs and behaviours on this forum that are simply natural. We will try our best to compromise with them so they don't run away screaming but at the same time they have to compromise with us.



Also what's the status on the rating of this website.
Is it PG-13 or not because that R rated movie thing has completly thrown me off.

 

It doesn't matter if people are serious or not, threatening to hack any site is wrong and should not be tolerated. Staff members don't know whether it's serious or not, so they take the appropriate precautionary measures.

 

It is undisputed that he was not serious and was just provoking a ban. But I guess you wouldn't know enough to have a say.