Chain of Memories Re-posted: Anyone else actually feel Sorry for Repliku?

yea, same. ;_;

 

Who cant feel sorry for him?..

 

Which one? The one as the scene faded black as his memory was changed, or the speech before his death? Both seemed pretty bad. They were the scenes primarily stuck in my head about him. I know that personality wise, he was not so nice, but that is from Riku, Namine, the darkness and the org.

The thing is, should I consider Repliku his own character, when I talk about his personality, or should I say Riku's personality after he is put through everything Repliku was put through?

I find Repliku the most interesting character in KH, as he was never meant to have a fanbase, nor anything but the position of an evil Riku, yet he turned out so tragic.

Pickles? :gunwtf: Getting disturbed. The org have no emotions. Xemnas said this himself, and attempted to enforce it among the org. I find pickles to be an emotional topic.
Also, the Repliku thing proves another point, I also feel sorry for Repliku's lack of respect by the developers. They have made a character more traumatized than Roxas, yet they treat him like a glorified bad-guy.

Axel toying with him? I didn't mind that one so much. Larxane screwing with his memories after he said no was sadder IMO.
I would like to see the video though.

Yes, he was. Only thing is, he didn't break it. Besides, if he had his way, he never would have gotten the opportunity to smash it. After his heart was shattered, he continued down the path of helping Sora, and he then took down a fake Murluxia for him.
Also, his memories were messed with.

Glad I got some people to realize that Repliku was more than he was made out to be.

Anyone who has not finished Sora's story. They have only seen the jerk side of Repliku, and not the hurt, broken side.

 

Repliku's sole purpose of his existence was to be a pest in the path of Sora, distracting him relentlessly while the Organization took that opportunity to mess around with Sora's mind to succeed in their own plans. He had no life outside of the castle, no power over his own mind, consciousness and memories, and then he met his end without having anything which he wished for.

Repliku was an awesome character, and like the Organization members, he left his mark [in my heart/mind]. He was created by Vexen and was deliberately told he was a fake, a mere clone of the real Riku who was lurking somewhere in the castle, then sending him off to fight him [and this was done only to see how Repliku compares to the Riku, as sort of a test to see if this Repliku experiment would be useful/efficient enough of their plan]. He obviously didn't know about all this until they told him what his purpose was in basement six.

However, through all that, Repliku's only wish was, was to be whole and be a ~real~ person like Riku, yet be his own self in his own way. He was just a tool in the hands of the Organization, and nothing more nothing less, but he, Repliku, wanted more, which he ultimately never did get and disappeared. Like the Organization, he too wanted to be whole, to have a real heart and being, thus he goes after Riku, to pretty much prove to ~himself~ that he is not just a fake [or a mindless puppet in the hands if the Organization], but much much more. In his fetish desire to prove that he too is “real” he constantly challenged Riku as a weaker being than him. Even though he stated himself that he is just like Riku, in appearance, body, soul, *heart*, talents and strength, but the fact that he was the fake/replica, still remained which of course was what had driven him. All he wanted was to be himself, and no one else, not even Riku. He hated the fact that he was the shadow of Riku and everyone referred to him as that rather recognizing him for an individual. And after Naminé wiped his memory clean to remake new ones, he didn't really have a choice but to go after Sora, for he no longer “controlled” himself. Then he of course goes on to fight Sora and eventually gets his @ss handed to him. He didn't have a choice here considering that Naminé pretty much gave him the “I'll protect Naminé because she means everything to me, and Sora can't do that for sh!t.” idea and personality. This continued until Naminé crushed him at the end, and then later he regained himself due to his strong will and power, but also remembering that he's just a fake. Sadness.

He had a heart, and wanted it to be for himself, as himself, and not under or as a shadow of someone else. That was his only desire throughout the whole game [which really caught my attention and intrigued me the most], and the people in the castle did not let that happen for shyte. He pretty much despised himself for being what he was, he was nothing but a fake hollow shell and he declared this to Riku in “Twilight Town”. After he left Sora, pretty much saying that there isn't a place for a fake among real beings, he is taken under Axel who sends him back to Riku and gives orders to destroy him with false hope that if he kills Riku, he'll be whole and no longer a fake. If Axel hadn't found him, he'd probably have left the castle. And it is pretty unfortunate that he never knew of anything other than the life inside the barred walls of the castle. He deserved much more and his life was practically worthless to anyone who was there. Riku only destroyed Repliku in an act of self defense, he couldn't have done anything else after Axel had done a wonder job on him. He was repeatedly lied to, used over and over, crushed, re-built and killed... he started as a tool and he died being a tool.

Did I feel sorry for Repliku? THE HELL I DID. I didn't like him in the beginning, but Basement six was where I really began to develop specks of emotions for this Repliku being, until then, I only cinsidered him as another enemy that must be taken care of. But the way in which he wanted to preserve his self consciousness and sole being really got to me. In the end [in his death and in his goodby to Sora] was when I was mostly suckered into being a Repliku fangirl. To me, he was a whole being from the start, and the fact that everyone referred to him as a FAKE dubbed him as the fake and, he believed it [not that it was false statement]. His heart was different than Riku's and it made him unique, and that was enough to make an individual, a whole and complete being.

“IT MUST BE NICE, BEING REAL. A FAKE LIKE ME COULD NEVER GET AWAY WITH SAYING THAT”

- Repliku (Twilight Town)​

Going a little off topic here: Through the Organization was being an @ss in this game, I still sympathize with their deaths, causes and desires. Every Organization member was an @sshole here, but in KH2, the characters were much more in depth. Like Repliku here, all they too wanted was to be whole and not be considered a shadow of someone else.

 

*claps*

Very nice Anwita. I can see where you are coming from with regards to Repliku, but for the life of me, I cannot feel sorry for the org.

Most of them chose their fate, and brought it upon themselves. Also, they lacked hearts. I feel sorry for Roxas, as he had one. Not for the rest though.

The prime difference between them was that we saw Repliku resist his fate, but the org did not. (except for Axel, and I kind of dislike him anyway, for trying to kill Roxas and manipulating Repliku.)

I like Repliku, but if I never saw Riku's side of the story, I would still dispise Repliku like I did during Sora's side.

 

I felt some sympathy regarding the Org's condition they ended up in. It's hard not to. However, some of them did do it to themselves and acted really rotten. Others seemed to be rotten by nature of memes like Saix and Xaldin. Mostly I felt bad for the ones who seemed to have some thought for others and not just their own predicament. I do think maybe Larxene could have turned out similar to Axel had she not been stuck with Marluxia. Demyx I think would have gone the way of Axel had he been brave enough. Xigbar I debate on because he's an older member and yet he seemed to be a bit more down to earth. I also ponder their reasons for doing what they did in the first place to Radiant Gardens. There are just a few I can say I had a bit more sympathy for than others in the games.

However, Repliku genuinely had it the worst since he never asked to be created in the first place, was used as a tool all through his life, ran off, was seen and accused of being a failure, just wanted his own freedom to be himself and not a shadow under someone else, and Namine didn't even have the guts to apologize to him after telling Sora in front of Repliku that she could do nothing to make him free of Riku's memories so he could be himself. In the end, as I said before, about the only ones sympathetic to Repliku were Sora and Riku, which is sad since he had to keep opposing them.

 

I agree. He had the saddest story of any Kingdom Hearts character (since most end happily)...

 

xDDD

O_O
Whoa, whoa, whoa... I won't deny the fact that Axel manipulated Repliku [he sure as hell did THAT and was being a complete @ss at the time too], but he never meant to KILL Roxas. [=O] Nope. Even though he did receive stern orders from Xemnas to destroy number 13, he never really came after Roxas with the intention of KILLING him. He first made his appearance in Twilight Town on the fourth day during the struggle tournament, and the first thing he did was see if Roxas remembered anything about him. Also the reason Roxas and Axel fought there was that Axel again was trying to see if attacking him would somehow revive his memories [so this apparently is how one would ~revive~ someone's forgotten memories, by attacking him and beating the crap out him (according to SE) O.o This was in both CoM and KH2... So from now on, I'll go around smacking my old friends to see if they remember me. <_<]. Anyway... Axel also attacked him to get him away from the illusionary Twilight Town, and tell him the truth about who and what he was. Hence, I quote Axel, “You're coming with me, conscious or not. Then you'll hear the story.†Well... He came to KIDNAP him... ~not~ to KILL him. Oh! Also after looking it up, Axel really ~didn't~ “attack†Roxas during the struggle battle, because according to the KH2 Novels, he was, according to Roxas, was enjoying himself as he fought with Roxas, and Roxas figured that Axel was holding back. =D
Besides, every time Axel made an appearance in front of Roxas, he honestly tried to reach out to the kid than rather attack him with the purpose of killing him. Roxas, however, not remembering anything from the time he spent with the Organization and with Axel, always saw Axel as a threat [also due to the fact that freakin' DiZ kept showing up and messing with Roxas' mind, confusing him even further... Axel speaking nonsense... Pshh! No he wasn't! D<]. Axel's “purpose†was to kill Roxas, according to Xemnas and the rest of the Organization's orders, but he didn't do that. Axel had pleaded to the Organization to give number 13 another chance, and that he personally would try and bring him back, but of course the request was denied. Both ironically and purposely Axel was later given the assignment to kill Roxas, for they knew how close the two males were. The KH2 novels are more in depth on this...
When in the end, Axel couldn't revive Roxas and snap him out of the false life he was living in Twilight Town, Axel had no choice but to attack him head on. Axel, after all, was still part of the Organization, and defying their orders would result in HIM being sent to oblivion. If you've read the KH2 Novels, you should see that Axel was ~REALLY~ bummed out when Roxas couldn't name their boss [a well recognized scene from the game, but the Novel is so much more in depth with the expressions and such]. When I say he was bummed out, oh boy trust me... he was sure as hell bummed out. ='[ Axel's later attacks on Roxas inside the Mansion was in both frustration and disappointment... lets just say that he'd lost his head for the moment in the utter disappointing and depressing realization that Roxas wasn't coming back. Axel never meant to kill Roxas, no... He was sort of in denial and was obsessive over Roxas, as to lose him when he'd merge with Sora. Like the psychology of “If I can't have him, no one can.â€

Heh... A bit off topic... but I MUST defend my AXEL! xO

I can see where you're coming from with this. I do sympathize with the Organization, but I too feel sympathy for a few certain members more than others [but I still do sympathize with the entire Organization in general, for how they met their end and considering their purposes]. True that the organization did what they did intentionally. And I also agree that some of them just had a bad attitude to begin with. Not a big fan of Siax, but his dying sentence was... well... quite ~sentimental~. And yeah, there might've been a chance that Larxene would've come following Axel if it hadn't been for Marluxia. Same for Demyx, but he was just a bit too afraid to take any sudden step like that. However.. Xigbar? O.o' That's the first time I've heard ~that~. Whoa... Never thought about it that way before... But the reasons why the Organization did what they did, is much more complex... and this thread is not the correct place to talk about that, and because of that, I'll shut up now. =]

Ditto on that Pika_Power. If there wasn't a RR in CoM... then I'd have just ignored Repliku from the start. Didn't care much for the guy in CoM, however, my jaw did drop to the floor in RR. That couldn't be helped... there was not much information on Repliku in CoM, except for the fact that he was an enemy to Sora and a really bad bad Riku.
And I also agree on that Repliku ~did~ in fact have it worse than the Organization. It was never his choice to exist or not, or be what who he was (the false side anyway). He was created, used and then flung aside. Can't get worse than that actually. His only reason for constantly attacking Riku and Sora was because of his false memories and the hunger to prove himself as an individual. It did bug me how Naminé ignored Repliku... that was just....uhh... mean. <_< *ahem* Repliku only wanted a simple thing, to be accepted for what he was, and not considered a shadow of someone, and Sora, did in fact accept Repliku in full fledge before he, Repliku, left the little crew. Riku was definitely sympathetic towards Repliku, well in the end at least. He didn't say much, but his expression said the unsaid.

 

I agree with Anwita...

All I can say is I'm glad she is on my side...

 

All ones for your Post count, ICSP.

Anwita, the thing about Axel is that he did try to kill Roxas in the very end. I count it an attempt on Roxas's life if he is attacked and can die. I guess I do not like Axel because of how he reacted.
What I mean by that is when Roxas is alive, he argues for Roxas, and tries to save him. The catch is that he still follows the orgs orders then, but when Roxas eventually combines with Sora, he betrays the org to try to bring Roxas back. I suppose that is one thing I dislike about him.

Another thing is in the final battle, Axel says "You really do remember, don't you? Well you're too LATE!" Just the things like that. Also I did not really like his ending, of dying to kill some dusks.

Eh, that is my reasoning for Axel. The only other person I could feel sorry for in the org is Demyx, because of how he did not really want to fight. Although the "Silence traitor" bit made me think. Was that a mask, or was the whole pacifist thing a mask? Or are nobodies just layers of masks?

Days might change my opinion on them, but at the moment, I only feel sorry for those forced into their posititions, such as Roxas or Repliku. (perhaps Demyx.) Axel I am still nutural on. The hordes of screaming fangirls also slightly puts me off him.

I know that I am being illogical in this post at points, but considering I am discussing sympathy, a human emotion, the lack of logic can be forgiven considering how illogical emotion is.

 

Axel had no choice but to fight Roxas and make it look like he was going to kill him because of his duty to the Org to wipe out traitors to the cause. He was literally threatened with being made into a Dusk if he did not comply. However, I still don't think Axel actually 'seriously' tried to kill Roxas as much as make it look good and to just come off with the point that Roxas is more powerful as an excuse to why he couldn't finish him off. Roxas may be 'more powerful' but he is nowhere as smart as Axel. If Axel truly wanted Roxas dead, he wouldn't have challenged him that way. However, making it look good was a necessity and it would buy Axel some time because 'failure' in the Org is frowned upon and apparently a 'capital crime' according to CoM, but it also let Axel roam about to figure out his next actions, which were to try to bring Roxas back.

 

No, no I do not. While, I admit, he got the short straw that doesn't mean I'll feel sorry for him. To be blunt, he was literally a tool to Org. XII, and nothing more. We don't even know if he survives CoM (Do we?). Plus, creating clones of pre-existing characters is the LAMEST plot twist ever. D:

 

I understand that Axel is a really hard and complex character to predict on, considering what he'll do next that is. [Random, but I see a lot of similarities between Axel and Jack Sparrow's personality... once they're on the good side, then the bad.... then... well yeah... I digress... AGAIN. <_< ] Well, all of Axel's actions just seem so random at times, and sometimes the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what you might've guessed on or whatever, but the reasons why he did really attack Roxas at the end... well in my point of view anyway, leans more towards ~sentiments~ and ~feelings~ [and I'm going to focus on this for a brief moment].

Like I said before, when Axel realized that no matter what he did, Roxas wasn't coming back, he kinda snapped [this is stressed more in the novels than in the game]. And since he was still was part of the Organization, he sort of ~had~ to follow the orders as well, otherwise the punishment was kind of clear, that he'd only be turned into a Dusk. Again, like I said before, it was kind of a cause and effect thing of the psychological thought: “If I can't have him, no one can.” And though he did attack Roxas, it was still NOT his intention to kill him. Roxas was, afterall, his “super hardcore best friend” and Axel wouldn't have the *heart* to go finish off his “super hardcore best friend”, even if he was a “traitor” to the Organization.

Also consider this, I guess... Axel's expressions were so ~different~ from the two lines he'd said; one, at the Usual Spot, immediately after Roxas had ran to the Mansion due to DiZ's call. Recall the face, the wistful expression on his face when Axel said the following lines, “The Roxas that I know is long gone. Fine. I see how it is...” Then for the second one, recall the expression on his face when he said the following lines, right before the battle with Roxas, "You really do remember me this time? I'm SO FLATTERED. But you're too late!!" My point? Well, if watching anime has taught me anything thus far is, that it is crucial to pay attention to even the slightest change of expression and attitude in the characters. The angry and hateful look on Axel's face before the fight was just too much of a drastic change compared to the sad and dismal look on his face from the Usual Spot. What I'm trying to say [and not really doing a good job of it apparently, but bare with me :sweatdrop:] is that this would be the famous “sacrificial” change or plot twist. In anime, this type of plot twists are quite popular, where a good guy turns “evil” in the middle of the story and most likely till the end or until he dies, only to reveal that he had a solid purpose of taking those steps, and that his/her actions actually benefitted the good guy in some particular ways... and I say this is exactly what Axel did. Axel never wanted to kill Roxas, and nor did he wish to get turned into a Dusk and be labeled as a traitor by the formidable and unforgiving Organization. So... how do you get out of a situation like that you ask?? Well, then this is where Repliku's awesome words come in :D :

Er... yeah, overall... my thoughts exactly. O_O Axel was a complete and total smart-@ss, and that was proven in CoM, because he totally pwned every Organization member in the castle. Axel could've “taken care of” number 13 a long time ago and in a much simpler way... but he ~didn't~. After the battle, Axel realized fully that Roxas was now truly gone and then after taking Naminé under his wing from Riku, goes somewhat more crazy in order to find a way to bring Roxas back [this was from the novels].

But considering that argument is based on sentiments, emotion and the feeling involved, there really aren't any SOLID evidences to prove my point, for this is mostly based on inference, educated guesses and observations. O_O I'm not even sure if any of this is making any sense.
Also, from the looks of it... I lied about the “being brief” part. xD

Care to elaborate on this buddy? O.o Please do explain to me, why you dislike Axel for going after Roxas again. This is quite an intriguing opinion, and I'd love to hear this in full detail.

Demyx might've been a little wet behind the ears, but he never really “declared” like Axel had, that he's defied the rules and code of conduct of the Organization. There certainly were thoughts and maybe even hints that he too maybe was for leaving the Organization. But since he never really said much on it, so it cannot be determined. Roxas made discoveries and went to search for the truth after flicking off the Organization, and Repliku... well, it was just his sad sad luck and fate on where he ended up, there was nothing that could've been done. Axel on the other hand, might've had a different opinion about the Organization before Roxas had shown up, but it was pretty clear that Axel despised the Organization.

Oh and I come to represent Axel not only and solely as a fangirl, but also as an advocate of his actions. :D
Tee Hee...

Ditto. xD

 

I do feel sorry for him, he never a had choice of what he wanted to do with his life. But I don't feel like Namine just pushed him aside. I don't think she could have done anything to help him, since he was a clone. Other than that I totally agree with you, poor replica Riku =(

 

The thing about Axel's actions being so "random" is that perhaps it is as simple as it looks? I know you have said that you are an Axel fangirl, could this be tainting your judgment in character? (I am not being a hypocrite here, I am talking about your emotions affecting your judgment of his character, not your emotional reaction to his character.)
Could Axel have just been mad from the beginning? A mad, tactical genius? just a view that also fits. You can say that he intended to make it look good, but could it also be a lack of sanity? That would explain it too! (and continue the likeness to Jack Sparrow)

Axel considered rejoining your somebody like fading away, or not being yourself. Yet he lets Roxas join with Sora. See? My point is that if it were a choice between a death for Roxas and suspicion from the org, or just death for Roxas and credit from the org, he would choose credit.

The thing is, later he still becomes a traitor. Why not sooner than later? It would save so much trouble. Also, the change in attitude can be labeled towards the fact they are nobodies. They change expression rapidly. They can fake expression, ofter overdoing it. I am going to put forward the concept that this is what Axel did. He had a job to do, and he took a face suitable for the job.

This could be avoided if he instead chose to just knock Roxas unconscious, then flee with him.

Heh. To be honest, I cannot really think up good, long replies for all the massive comments you make, as I can only ever think of one or two liners to use... Although the next comment should be good.

He goes after his best buddy, and lets him rejoin with his other. Axel then wants the buddy back, so he goes on an un-thought-out plight to get him back.

He could have just fled with Roxas at the mansion. It would have left him in the same position as he was in later, except he would have Roxas next to him. If he had acted sooner, he could have prevented looking pathetic. Which is what I saw his plight to resurrect Roxas as. He kidnaps Kairi. Then what? I can understand liking his personality, but I cannot feel sorry for him in the same way as Repliku. He still had choices. He could defy the org. Though he was threatened, he could flee. Repliku was used as a tool, and never given the chance to turn traitor.

Repliku did have a chance, at the end. Instead Axel manipulated him. But about Demyx, I can feel sorry for his fate. He was too meek to run, and he was forced into a death he did not deserve. (Then again, his "silence traitor" seemed to be like taking off a mask...)

Heh. I suppose I just cannot feel sorry for Axel. I always considered memory sacred ground, so I always feel sorry for those with their memories manipulated.

Oh, I forgot the key difference. Repliku had a heart, Axel didn't.

 

You mean if my thoughts and regards on Axel are BIASED or not? O.o
Well, I try not to be biased towards ANYTHING when it comes an argument or a debate of any sort of subject, matter or a particular situation, character or whatever. I try and stick to the evidence which are there and presented to me [however, everything in this world IS in fact biased . . . every opinion, matter and subject, and everyone knows this well, but won't do anything about it considering that it's been believed for so long, that no one really cares anymore]. But also considering that I AM indeed an Axel fangirl, the question of whether my opinion towards the guy are biased or not, do rise up. However, I must say that I am NOT biased about this matter, no. Never have I said anything regarding Axel or his actions, which had any sort of direct links to ~MY~ sentiments for the guy [or as you put it, JUDGEMENT OF HIS CHARACTER]. Whatever I've said so far, I've presented it with evidence, and even backed it up with some outside knowledge. I really don't see how my advocation for him would be biased. The opinion I have of Axel, was carefully created and produced after I've had all the facts and evidences regarding his actions put together . . . and I'm a person who goes by evidence rather than sentiments.

I still do not understand Jack Sparrow. O.o That was one messed up character, funny . . . but messed up. I had a hard time keeping up with that, always wondering what side was he on now. xD Well anyhoo~~~. . . Axel mad? I doubt that. Tactical genius? Perhaps. Lack of sanity? This one just made me laugh, but no. The difference between Axel and JS is, that JS constantly switched sides, whereas Axel was confused at first, then he chose a side and he chose to be a traitor. People do stupid crap when they are confused and Axel did all that. And I keep saying that he lost his head at the realization of the loss of Roxas and went a little nuts, but he wasn't mad, you know. Tactical genius . . . that was proven in CoM, and in KH2, how he got out of killing Roxas. It wasn't the lack of sanity. Sure, he was taken over by this thoughts [can't say emotions, because they never really had any], but his mentality was too complex and haphazard to be insane. xD
The way his mind works . . . it's far from an insane person, but a tactical genius, yes.

Wait what?? O.o How could he have chosen credit if he let Roxas merge with Sora? He just threw away his credit. Axel would've been credited if he was successful in destroying number 13, and he obviously didn't. After he was defeated, he was near a beach, recovering from getting his @ss handed to him from the fight with Roxas, and he said so himself that after this, he just became a full-fledged traitor to the organization. But I think I'm also starting to understand what you meant by credit, that making it look good will give him some credit, that he actually tried? If that's what you mean, then . . . even then it not right, because failure was not tolerated in the Organization. Axel knew well that he would be a traitor to the Organization if he failed, and he did, he “failed†in killing Roxas. Better to have him merge with Sora, his other half, than to have him lost in darkness.

Yeah, it definitely would've saved a lot of trouble, but he was still attempting to bring Roxas back to the Organization, was he not? He was a semi-traitor for killing few of the members in CO, and he was fully traitor-ific after he pwned himself in the battle with Roxas. He chose to betray the Organization and Xemnas' stern orders because he just couldn't go and Kill Roxas. He didn't betray the Organization sooner was because he went after Roxas with some hope of getting him back, and turned against the Organization because he knew that the Roxas he'd known is long gone and neither could he kill Roxas. The change of attitude thing also applies to the “making it look good†thing too. I won't deny the fact that as a nobody, it is so easy to go from one emotion to another, but out of ALL the Organization members, and after Roxas of course, Axel was the next most sentimental nobody. Hell, he even cried! [=O] Overreaction was expected from Axel at that point because he was still trying to grasp the fact that Roxas is no longer Roxas [thanks to Riku and DiZ *shaking fist* Heck, I feel more sorry for Roxas, his life was robbed from him dammit! Damn you SE/Nomura! D<].

Fleeing is/was COMPLETELY out of option here Pika.P. =O You should know that. I mean I too wondered that at once, and oh my effin' Gee it would've made everyone's life a whole lot easier, but the answer is also so obvious. The Organization is QUITE vicious towards traitors, and deserters, enough to hire their own members to go and kill them [cold and harsh . . . I like that. This is a good tactic to use during group projects . . . you don't do your share of the project, ohhh . . . you DIE! I'm talking about school here xD]. If Axel did in fact ran away with Roxas, they'd been hunted down and destroyed. The same reason Lexaues and Zexion didn't leave CO. They weren't bound there, well physically at the least, but they were bound there in fear of death. Axel could've captured Roxas and ran away with him a long, long time ago, but there were too many thorns in that path. You can see where I'm going with this right?

EL OH EL. xD You don't HAVE to give me long as paragraphs to read. I'm just writing what I need to write to prove my point. And sometimes, one or two liners are good enough to stump a person. =D I've had that happen to me in MANY cases. So it's ok, hun.

Again with the fleeing . . . The Organization would've just hunted them down. Fleeing looks like such a simple answer, but when in truth, it really is NOT. The fleeing matter is complex and filled with barred roads. He didn't flee with him because he also knew that, that also meant Roxas getting killed by some other member, along with him of course [and saving your own @ss comes first before anything], and so he let Roxas merge Sora, and later when he learns that Roxas was all and well inside Sora, he went after him, and did some stupid crap, like kidnaping Kairi. Then what?? O.o But I think it had something to do with having Sora getting pissed off and coming to him so . . . he could . . . extract . . . Roxas?? Meh, they never really explained why he kidnaped her beside the fact that he wanted to see Roxas. What he actually intended to do, it still remains oblivious. . . I think. Prove me wrong otherwise.
His personality was kick-@ss, but feeling sorry from him has nothing to do with this. Axel pretty much killed 6 birds with one stone in CoM [dang!!]. Using pretty much everyone in the castle and playing them against each other, he got rid of everything, and as much as I do hate him for that, but I must also credit him for that, that was pure genius-ly evil.

I don't like Axel in CoM. =/ That might be the only time I hated him, but he was whole new and different person in KH2, and I saw the softer side of him there apart from the b!tchy side of him from CoM. It is sad that Axel did all that crap in CoM, especially with poor Repliku there. As for Demyx . . . he never said anything about hating the Organization, he basically whined about being sent on a mission which seemed so difficult to him, thus saying “Boy did they send the wrong guy for this.†He's never said nor done anything about hating the Organization, but I think that him addressing Sora/Roxas a “traitor†was enough to show just how PRO or ANTI Organization material he was. My question is that why the hell did the Organization pick such a meek and whiney man to be a part of the team? Meh, the world is filled with mysteries. xD

Memories ARE sacred ground. Whether they are good or bad, that's what makes, shapes and creates an individual. But also, I'm not attempting to make you feel ~sorry~ for Axel either, what I'm trying to prove is that Axel never tried to KILL Roxas. I don't really feel sorry for him . . . well I do, but in a more of “LIFE'S B!TCH†sense[ and this also applies to both Roxas and Repliku. All their lives were a b!tch], and in a sense that he never really got what he wanted, a heart and . . . his friend? All in all, comparing the sorriness I felt for Axel to the sorriness I felt for Repliku, it was on completely different grounds.

Axel may not have had a heart, but he a good grasp of his emotions a little more than anyone else, I've said this already. Repliku's heart was synthetic, but it was still a heart none the less. . . AI-ish?? O.o'

 

Uh huh. That's what I thought. The point I meant was if two theories worked equally, you would take the one that put Axel in a good light. Right?

But if Axel thought that merging was like death, why not just kill Roxas there and then? He would get credit for that. If he let him merge, he looses credit. Also, as Roxas did remember that second time, why not take him back? All Axel did was go insane, and attack. I know you say that he planned to loose, but why?

I mean why not turn traitor and flee with Roxas after the first meeting? He finds out that "the Roxas that he knew was long gone" but then when Roxas remembered at the second meeting, why not flee with him? Instead he makes it "look good" then later turns traitor to get Roxas back.

But Axel did turn traitor, that's the thing. Why not do it an event earlier, at the second meeting? All that changed was that Roxas would be inside Sora, so Axel would need to evade the org AND turn Sora into a heartless.

But he went after Sora, and if his plan worked, he would release Roxas, and turn Sora into a heartless. This would mean that the org's meal ticket would be a heartless, and Axel would be running around with the only keyblader. Same type of result. So why not flee earlier, rather than turn traitor later?

Oh, and I actually liked Axel in COM. Far better than the mushy, senseless one in KH2. ;)

I preferred the COM Axel (besides the manipulating of Repliku...). More brutal. The cheerful Axel in Days might be interesting, but the Axel in KH2 never really won me over.

True. You have stumbled across the confusing thing about Demyx. Two words. "Silence Traitor!" Is that Demyx's true nature, or a mask for Sora's benefit?

I suppose now that I think about it, it is possible that he did never try to kill him. Then again, it is possible that he did just try to kill Roxas, and got defeated. After all, he did say that the Roxas that he knew was long gone. While he may have been holding back, he still made an attempt to kill him. (Although I am beginning to prefer the "It was only an act" side of it.

A grasp of emotions? Only when he was around Roxas did he get emotional. Otherwise he was the cold hearted killer from COM.

I suppose in a way I do feel sorry for him, in the sense that he was given a taste of having a heart, then was denied. I can also look at it the other way, and say it was merely his way of getting a heart. Instead of trying to summon a kh copy, he tried to make/keep Sora incomplete.

Also, how about we take this to PM? The Repliku thread in the COM section has become about Axel in KH2. Off topic slightly, don'tcha think?

 

I dont know if thats necessarily TRUE completely though. look at Roxas and Axel, you cannot tell me they were unfeeling and emotionless, or impervious to being emotionally damaged. especially Axel.


I always thought "What if they were wrong? What if the Org had feelings etc?


aside from Xemnas, who isnt exactly mentally stable at the end of KH2, imo, who says they have no feelings and arent meant to be created?


they exist, therefore, I feel that they had a purpose in their life, they may have strayed from that path, but who hasnt really? didnt mean they deserved to die.

 

YES, PM GOOD. xD I was thinking about this when I posted. I'll reply to this tomorrow then. I really should head to bed now. ;) It's almost 2 am! =O

 

Roxas was a special case, same with Namine. Roxas' heart affected Axel, causing him to feel emotion. The org in general have no hearts.

The rest of them have no hearts. As for who says they have no feelings and are not meant to exist, DiZ and Yen Sid. Saix as he dies says "Kingdom hearts... Where is my heart?" Hardly something a guy with a heart would say.

They had no purpose. They are the remnants of those who were taken by the heartless. Like nuclear waste.

I will admit, they did not deserve to die off the bat. They could live as well, without hearts. The only catch is that they felt a longing for a heart, something missing in themselves. This led them to start interfering with the worlds so Sora would help them get hearts. They did this by taunting Sora and attacking him, along with sending heartless to fight him. For some reason, Sora then felt the need to fight back.

I see you have already posted in this thread. The reasons you gave were already discussed. The reason Sora never sat down over a cup of coffee to discuss matters with the org was because he never got a chance. The org were the ones in the wrong, as they struck first. They should be the ones to put forward the peace treaties, not Sora.

They were sentient beings, but they did not behave in a respectable manner to those around them. Being a sentient being does not grant immunity from punishment. What it comes down to is them attacking Sora and his friends, so he retaliated.

Oh, by the way, Roxas and Axel were never attacked for no reason by Sora.