Okay, is Deadlight of the Worst Games Ever?

im just saying, it's always the same people who come into threads entirely unprovoked telling people to let things go.
then they tell the same people to let it go again when they respond entirely provoked, acting all holier-than-thou.
thats kinda *******-ish.

 

So we should never move past anything we dislike? Like, there's so much mad in here over one game it's almost obsessive.

 

so...? It's a terrible game, I JUST played it a week ago, and I spent the last few days editing the thing. I think I've earned my obsession.
I'll let it go later, after I've written the review

 

Opinions.

I went to see Godzilla, and I see this thread didn't get any better.

Boy, you sure can show us with well structured opinions even though the people you've argued have played the game and think you're wrong. Cool.

Looking for criticism makes it seem like you know better than the people making it. You don't play chess and then critique it and say how to improve it because no matter what you'd be wrong- it's a game that has conquered time. You explain how it's played. So if you're reviewing a video game, you talk about the visuals and the sound (the video portion) and how it plays (the game part). That's it. You inform the customers and keep your own pocket out of it. It's that simple. Blistered Thumbs told the internet that Wonderful 101 would've been a fantastic game had it been a third person game with one hero. You know what that tells me about the product he reviewed? Nothing. At. All. Except that he'd have preferred it a different way, but it says nothing as to what's there and what's available for purchase.

And yes, you're right, critique and review are synonyms (though that definition didn't even hurt my point), but so are the words bucket and container. Similar doesn't mean the same. It never has, it never will.

I'm done with this waste of time thread.

 

Well you sure showed me with your razor sharp logic. Can a person say anything about music or graphics that are objective? I guess you could say what instruments are used, or what genre it is. Or you could say the graphics are... a thing? There's nothing valuable to be said about them without injecting your opinion. Even technically objective stuff isn't REALLY objective. I encountered a tonne of glitches, other people didn't. The game is variable in that way too.

But no wait, there's more. Oh yeah, Deadlight is TOTALLY a timeless classic. Nothing to be improved. Nope. We should jsut never say why things could be better because obviously if chess can't ever possibly be improved NOTHING EVER CAN BE.

Person thought it would have been fantastic in a different genre? that tells me they didn't make a good choice for the genre in the first place, potentially.

Oh, okay, bucket and container mean the same thing but apparently that's a point against me, makes sense. You say that the purpose of a review is not to critique something... and yet they're synonyms. Would you say a bucket isn't meant to contain something, but a container is? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if you did

You're right, this was a waste of time thread, because you spent it arguing NONSENSE and trying to act like you were saying something meaningful at any point

 

While I don't agree with Atlas on the idea that all reviews are awful (though knowing him, he's exaggerating a bit,) there are valid ways to criticize something. And as other people have already stated, some of the issues you have with the game were technical, yet clearly the people who liked the game didn't have these issues.

But you know what I also think needs to be said? That there is always more than one review for any specific thing. You can hear what people with different opinions and mindsets think, and I think that's pretty great. Sure it brings with it bias, but why shouldn't you give some time to listen to someone who clearly likes some things that you like? I don't see too much harm if you don't blindly follow them, and still do try out new things ._.

As for the whole "coulda been better in a different genre" debate...eh. Yeah, it gives some idea that maybe the genre it's in doesn't fit, but that statement alone is really weak, you have to admit. Like, just compliment that statement with saying things like "having this action game in first-person rather than third-person would give better control and better angles for the gameplay."

And please, don't get so offended to the point of insinuating mental deficiency. Jokes aside, that's pretty low :\

 

P1- There were technical issues, among other things, if someone doesn't experience them it doesn't suddenly mean that the people who DID experience them are invalid. I've seen the game through 1.5 times, and encountered different glitches each time, and offered plenty of criticisms besides, and the best a person can offer is that I just don't like it because I suck and that they didn't encounter the specific glitch? In terms of valid criticism... who gets to decide what's a valid opinion? The great thing about the internet is that you can find a billion opinions and figure out which ones apply to you. The notion that a person can't express an opinion because they might end up skipping in a game they might have loved is ludicrous (and it's pretty silly if he's exaggerating about reviewers since he called me out on 'exaggerating' my opinion on this game sucking)
And I don't get why people think I don't want to hear about people explaining why they liked the game. I said as much multiple times in this topic. It has a question mark for a reason. But the closest thing I've gotten is one person calling me butthurt for not liking the game, adn another person telling me to let it go because I'm obsessive. These aren't exactly the well thought out angles I was hoping for

P2- That's a really healthy attitude that more people should adopt. There's a lot of criticism out there, and a lot of different views on it, just find the one that best fits you, and be smart enough to know when something they complain (or gush over) about doesn't matter to you

P3- It's not a terribly strong argument, no, though personally if he gave some examples of WHY it would have worked better then... that's REALLY valuable info, otherwise it's just poorly written, honestly.

P4- I looked through my previous posts for the part where I implied mental deficiency, and I can't find it. I might have missed it, but I'd like a quote. That said, if I did say something like that, I'm truly sorry

 

It just shows how weak his own opinions are- it's fine . He can insult me, it just makes him seem more unsure so he replaced his knowledge with angry put-downs. It won't offend me, it just wasted my time. I won't report him or even be mad at him, he's just flustered

And yes, I was exaggerating. Not every review is bad. But most publications have the wrong idea. One of my favorite reviewers I can't watch because he always spoils things, but good ok' MatthewMatosis on YouTube can review a game without throwing around opinions and talk about the quality of a title. A treasure, for sure.

 

Can't we all just place nicely? :x

 

BAHAHAHA WHAT
You're using MATTHEW MATOSIS as the example of an objective review? He makes 40 minute opinion pieces. He talks about how personally the graphics in Wind Waker HD look worse to him, heck, he did a huge plot critique of Bioshock Infinite. He may back up his views well, but they're still just views

Anyways, can you get off your high horse for a second or two and discuss this with me like a human being? Your ability to deconstruct the situation doesn't make your arguments any less weightless. I apparently insulted you? (Ignore that I apologized because then your smugness becomes less effective!) And that makes my opinions that I've actually backed up less valid than your nonsense? You're done with this waste of time thread unless you get to add another smug remark? That's basically all you've been doing here, by the by, is smug remarks. You don't actually explain the things you say (bucket and a container?)
And frankly if insulting someone is a measure of how invalid an argument is, then you going on the offensive from the very start of this thread for no reason puts you firmly in dead last

 

I was more referencing his Metal Gear reviews, I forgot those reviews did exist. Tetris was one that specifically came to mind.

Yeah, talk like a human being as you basically point and laugh instead of ask and learn what someone thinks. Look buddy, you're a product of the times and this isn't something we should discuss or we will harbor negative feelings towards one another. I've stated absolutely everything I feel I need to and I personally think your hurts more than helps.

I also feel you taking apart quick examples of what a good objective review could hold within is... Dumb? Considering you want to match it with a structured review. I don't want a review off, I don't care- you're not going to be swayed. I think you've had an unfortunate experience with this particular game and dislike it because of that, and are now trying to force your opinion on others in a desperate attempt to be heard and to validate your minority opinion. It's that simple to me and I'm not here to break that any further.

 

About here was where I was getting the wrong impression from what you were saying:

That really rubs me the wrong way.

I don't think that's the right response to post though. Sure, have it to yourself, but stating it for him to read will only antagonize him further (as the responses between you two have shown.)

Guys, please, you both have valid points. Stop taking the piss out of each other. I respect you both and would prefer the discussion be about what is positive about the mentioned game instead of deconstructing each other's arguments. Hatok does bring up a good point:

 

Ah, the very objective Metal Gear reviews where he talks about how using Snake Eater during the final battle ruins the mood, and that MGS 4 has too many cutscenes but he thinks that was intentional? Sounds SUPER objective

Instead of ask and learn? I've been doing that this ENTIRE thread and people would much rather MOCK me for it. Maybe it sounded like sarcasm but I was LEGITIMATELY curious about what other people saw in it. But believe it or not, telling me I'm butthurt and obsessive didn't give me any new insight. I listened to you, too, but you were just telling me the TRUE meaning of a review. In fact, at this point I'm still not sure you actually played it, you never explicitly said. I assumed you did, because it was a free Games with Gold game, but I digress. I asked. I listened. But I want a GOOD argument, not a person just telling me I'm wrong. I argue my views fiercely, but it's not because I'm resistant to change, but because I want a specific and equally fierce RETORT. I gave specific examples for all of my problems, has anybody else in this entire trhead even mentioned a single specific detail about the game?

I'm a product of the times? What the Fvck does that even MEAN? PLEASE discuss i because it makes absolutely no sense to me, same with what this has to do with negative feelings (for the record, I'll never hate you for an argument like this or something, I keep my arguments and my personal views on someone separate, there's only one person on Earth I can actually say I hate, but that's neither here nor there)
Personally think my what hurts more than helps?

Taking apart... what? And wait, now YOU'RE calling me dumb? Review-off? What? You already told me rather bluntly you don't give a fvck about my review, where is this coming from? Anyways, yes, I had a very unfortunate experience with the game: I had to play it. It was dreadful. Was it the worst game ever? Probably not, but you don't think every review sucks, either adn you still said it. Trying to forve my opinion on others? By repeatedly asking people if there was something about it that justified the high scores it got? I'm not swayed by cheap arguments, but I have no issue admitting I was wrong, I just need a good argument. My sister managed to change my view on organized religion to a far more positive one pretty easily, and you think I won't change my thoughts on a freaking VIDEO GAME?
And I don't really have a reply to that last bit. Why do you feel the need to end your posts with that condescension?

 

local forum user uses hyperbole, forum erupts in debate and rage

 

Blargh I need to check notification before posting things >.>

Anyways, I see how that could be interpreted that way, I meant it merely as a comment on the arguments he's been making. He's clearly not dumb >>

And honestly, in my narrow view of debate with Atlas, I have been willfully ignoring the positive aspects of the objective side of reviewing. There are objective facts yo can discuss to fill a review, it's just rarely enough to actually fill a review. You need objective facts to give context, and opinions to flesh them out. The best of both worlds, you can't just throw around unsupported opinions if you want to be taken seriously, but you can't just rely on the objective side of things because it's all bones with no meat.

Anyways, still interested in hearing about why people actually like this game, if we can, y'know, hold off on the insults for a bit[DOUBLEPOST=1400741525][/DOUBLEPOST]

sounds like a newspaper headline

 

See, this hurts discussions and just turns them into arguments. This is why I get agitated, call it a waste of time, and leave. I'm glad you said it eventually, but jeez man... When you close off a part of your view to others, we can only think you're being stubborn and narrow minded.

So for the record, I wasn't calling you dumb, just that type of thinking. It wasn't even genuine, I just threw the wording I was receiving back at you. I was going to blow your freakin' mind.

I won't go into the discussion anymore. I think reviews should stay objective to inform buyers, and I definite think opinion pieces need to exist. The two shouldn't be mixed though to me. The most ideal reviews possible aren't well constructed or typed out or made by ProJared (PFFFFFFFFFFF), but rather a friend telling his friend about that game he's excited for. Obviously, those are full of opinions. Duh. But when deconstructed, the excitement levels and information make the recommendation. To me, that's important. I started having these thoughts around the time people started hating Metal Gear Rising for being short, despite the fact it was far more brilliant than Bioshock or The Last of Us in my eyes. And it received some bad press because "it's short!!!!" from certain reviewers because they sold out of their own pocket and put a time value on sixty dollars.

Anyway, I liked Deadlight. To me, it was zombie Oddworld and I really liked the solutions to the art direction using those outlines. The arrows over ledges were lazy though

 

Okay yeah no, I tried being more diplomatic after what Hayabusa said, and you still felt the need to try and come out on the high ground. You're still saying nonsense, talking about blowing my mind, talking about how this is SO not worth your time. I tried bringing this to a close, even tried to absorb some of the fault and you just used that to keep being smug. You've been talking about how done you've been done for like five posts, but now it's my turn to be done.
The purpose of a review is still critique, by the way, I didn't miss the point ;)

 

Haya pretty much said what I was going to say here. If this keeps up, I will have to probably lock the thread, and I know you two can conduct yourselves in a discussion much better than this. Stop trying to take the piss out of each other's points, be they about the semantics of the argument or someone saying they're going to leave things be with the topic. If it's been said, it's done and that should be that.

 

I really don't feel it escalated to the point of this. I wasn't offended and his insults were so low leveled he just learned fire (and they weren't even genuine...) and I just didn't care and kept reexplaining the same point over and over using some pointed words like "dumb."

That said, you're the boss chief.[DOUBLEPOST=1400748083][/DOUBLEPOST]

Whaaaaaa? You accidentally misconstrued my meaning man. That wasn't putting you down, that was meeting your humility and recognizing it. I even took time to get personal and explain where my views came from ... Like, I swear I was trying to meet you.