No Thanks New 'Elite' Usergroup

I don't think it was ever supposed to be something worthwhile. It's just a small reward for activity. The spam zone also counts as being active. Having fun and having (limited) free speech could also encourage new members to join, maybe even more so than informative content.

 

Once again, did this problem apply to Premiums? Did it or did it not boost activity?

It is not constructive criticism. That is why I have a problem with it. You cannot just encourage people to post with words. It provably does not work, and I don't see how it could. Do you personally plan to do this? Even if the people who made this suggestion do it, do you think that others will follow?

The idea is to give an incentive to people and manipulate them into being motivated. It is a hell of a lot easier to create a common tangible goal than to convince a huge group that it is a good idea without a reward.

People tend towards inactivity without incentives, especially on a site like this where most of the people are not outgoing types. The mythos of this suggestion and others is to workaround the nature of people to not care.

Your attitude is discouraging and nothing else. You are basically denying the value of marketing and rewards as an incentive.

If you offer free food at a fundraiser, tons of people will show up for the food and donate nothing. But will you get more money than if you had not offered the food? I think you will.

But you think that the fundraiser should just leave it up to the good of peoples' hearts to come to the fundraiser. Or maybe they pay into their own fundraiser, that will work.

It may not be a perfect idea, but it is the best we have.

Unless you have a better or more effective idea, you are really only hurting potential activity at best because it isn't good enough for you.

 

but what activity will come from putting in a new usergroup? people are just going to post pointless replies to topics to get their count up (which the majority of them will probably be deleted in the end) and that is not making the forums active. it's spamming to get more posts, and if you want to spam, there's an entire section dedicated to it.

people shouldn't have to be manipulated into posting. so many are complaining about this forum being dead yet the only way they'll change it is if they get some sort of incentive at the end. why? you don't always get an award for achieving something.

i am not sure how my attitude is being discouraging. if people complain about something enough, they should want to change it on their own so they don't have to deal with it anymore, but it seems people won't do this.

 

It is an added incentive to post. That does not make it the only incentive.

You are offering the suggestion that if people are not willing to post, then we should just have fewer posts. That is discouraging towards the people who want this because they are a vocal minority. The people who suggested this already created the thread and are posting in it. They clearly want this to happen.

But they want others to do it too. If they can't get them to do it simply by telling them to, then there will be other methods. Many members have thoughts, they are just too lazy to contribute. Just like with the fundraiser, the food is not the only incentive, it is just an added one.

You are presenting a dichotomy between everyone suddenly changing into more active posters at once or just letting things die down. Because you clearly do not favor the idea of becoming more active yourself, you think those who contributed to this thread should just let it die down if they cannot convince people otherwise. You are suggesting that we make a cooperative effort while you yourself are not willing to be cooperative. Don't you see how that is discouraging?

But here is the thing. If the people in this thread dropped the suggestion of other incentives and tried to convince people to post elsewhere, you would oppose that too and tell them to leave people alone and let them post when they feel like it. I know this because I have seen you around the forums on other issues. You have discouraged every single suggestion you have commented on and tried to discourage people from making a fuss.

Are you in favor of the members here trying to encourage others to post manually? Do you support them in that goal?

I don't see a suggestion in the works from you. You do not support anything that has been suggested here. You want people to just keep going on as they have. Is that right?

 

Ummmm, I know talking about it is good and all, but can we go back to talking about something besides why people would/wouldn't post after they achieve this?



Eitherway, if they do or don't, who cares? If this new usergroup thing does happen and the forum becomes active that's good, but if it doesn't oh well we tried. We can't just sit around speculating in a train of thought trying to come up with an exact outcome on how it would all be in the end.

 

i am suggesting that if you want this forum to be active again, since that is technically the "reason" for this new usergroup and added perks, that you should be able to do it on your own. you shouldn't have to be manipulated into posting in other parts of the thread. if someone wants change so much, they shouldn't need to have a prize at the end. that's the one thing i'm trying to get across.

but wow, thank you for telling me how i would respond if this was a different situation. goodness, it's like you know me so well.

have you ever thought that i just don't care much for the ideas that have been thrown around, so i'm going to disagree with them and voice my opinion on such things?

 

I just explained how this thread shows that those people who care about this already are working to increase activity.

But they don't just want themselves to increase it. They want others to post who didn't even bother to read this thread. They want to change the habits of people who do not care. In other words, they don't want to be the only ones posting.

You keep suggesting that they do something about the activity like they have control over other members. They personally can post more, but that will not make the forum active. I agree that there shouldn't be members who don't care to post, but that doesn't change the fact that they exist. You seem to be one of the people you are complaining about.

You are welcome. I notice you didn't deny my claim.

Yes, I have thought that. In fact I just said it. I asked you just now if you disagreed with all of the suggestions here but had nothing of your own and just wanted things to keep going as they have. It sounds like you do. Is that correct? Maybe I'll get an answer this time.

EDIT: Ah, I'm sorry. I'm getting too irritable. I still think you are being discouraging and have no other reason to be here but you don't deserve this level of condescension.

See you tomorrow.

 

i am not sure where i said there shouldn't be members who don't care to post. i'm saying that the members who are continuously complaining about the activity on this website should post outside of the spam zone if they want change so badly. if a person is content with how the forum is, why should they be forced to do something they don't want to do? that seems like what you're suggesting, in that if you're not active outside of the spam zone, you just shouldn't be here. i am content with how the forum is. if there is a post outside of the spam zone that interests me, i will post in it. i'm not sure where you got the idea that i was complaining about people who don't post. i'm moreso trying to understand why people need to be manipulated into making a forum active again.

i have no idea what answer you're looking for. if people are encouraged to post outside of the spam zone without being manipulated into doing so with new perks, i don't have a problem with that. i don't like the manipulation of this all. "you give us new perks, and we'll make your forum active again." it shouldn't have to be that way.

 

You just fulfilled my prediction to the letter.

What if these people post outside of spam and are willing to and activity is still low? What if they get no responses? What should they do? That is the assumed circumstance right now.

 

To support Makaze here, look at the Movies & Media Board. I posted. A lot. Very few posts from others after that.

 

I dunno how to word how I feel on the subject exactly. I'm in support of the new usergroup because it would be a cool thing to reach for, but I personally wouldn't spam outside the Spam Zone to reach it. I didn't do that to reach Premium how many years back, I just posted what I felt were quality posts in threads that interested me, I do that now, and I would do that even with the usergroup.

I cannot speak on the behalf of every other member of course, I am simply giving my own testament.

 

This is the exact mindset we want to (re)inspire in every other user as well. We don't want people to spam, and I have faith they won't.

I also have faith that the activity will not die out after some members reach the new usergroup, because I believe once we get the activity flowing again it will continue for a very long time.

 

The Premium usergroup was added a few months after we moved to vBulletin because (not going to lie) other KH sites had something similar. We thought it'd be a nice reward to our most dedicated members, and initially planned for them to get exclusive news and content first. Upon realizing the latter was a horrible idea--users could just go to other sites to get it--it just remained as a kind of "upgraded membership."

We did think of it as an incentive to post--new perks and pretty color, though. We expected that members who reached Premium would be kind of "hooked" on the site, by that point, and would continue to keep up consistent activity. And some have.

Premiums are seemingly abundant these days but that might just be because you're visiting sections that more seasoned members tend to visit. The Spam Zone isn't exactly new member friendly; most of the newer members tend to concentrate within the Kingdom Hearts sections & some others. And understandably so. But before we start going "aw Premiumhood is useless and means nothing today," consider there's a bit more than 150 Premium members? And very few of them are active.

Carry on, though. Just shedding some light.

 

To be fair, that section has never really been that active. Outside of the Disney sub-forum at least. And the Harry Potter threads. When sections like Gaming, or the various KH sections start to have low activity, that's when you start worrying.

 

I get what you're saying, totally getting it. And I do agree that if KHV goers want the site to be truly active, that they'll post out of the goodness of the heart. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone doesn't post, because some people do.

But I do agree with this whole "new usergroup" idea as well. Yes, it would be nice if more people would post without any incentive, but many people aren't like that. They set a goal, such as becoming "Elite" or whatever this group might be called, which gives them motivation to post more. With this new usergroup, I believe that KHV will once again be active for a certain amount of time, but then KHV may fall back into a rut like it is now once the whole lust of this new group fades away.

Oh, and also about the spam posts or whatever... I do agree that it is an issue. But there will always be someone who will spam posts, right? As long as the dedicated members who post in topics they are interested in, as Hayabusa said, then it's okay.

Overall, I think this new usergroup is a good idea of getting KHV back on its feet and you have my support.

EDIT ; Also, this post is a response to all your posts, I just chose your latest post to quote.​

 

I never got an answer...

Can a staff member give an official statement about progress on this, and the current state of the suggestion?

 

Several of us posted our thoughts. Judging by the fact that people are still replying and trying to determine a middle ground between the yes and nos, it's not anywhere near a "complete" suggestion.

 

Yet the staff already have something in mind, right? Even if you plan to do nothing, you have already set up preliminary plans.

As is, people are just nitpicking about specifics and many cannot even agree about whether to add a new usergroup or just overhaul Premium.

Which one of those two is closer to being accepted by the staff?

 

It has not been seriously discussed as a group besides sharing individual opinions. As Ashwin told Rainshine & Trigger (which may have been mentioned somewhere in here), even if this is approved by everyone it may not be implemented in a little while, as we have some other matters to attend to at the moment.

 

However, it seems obvious that at this point everyone is coming up with their own ideas completely aside from the original. As soon as one idea gets approved by a few people, someone else comes in with a completely different idea. Different requirements, different perks. And then many seem to be okay with an overhaul of Premium.

I would rather not discuss needlessly if in the end you think it will fail, so do you think it has a chance or not?