My thoughts on Sora and Kairi

I think Riku is truly the character that got the short end of the stick out of all of the games. Well, CoM actually gave him some highlight time, but it's clear in the other games he totally gets overlooked, and he also doesn't even get a stupid action figure as Axel, Roxas, Sora and Kairi did. It is kind of annoying that the most intelligent and adaptable character in KH gets nothing.

However, back on track...I like Sora even if he's kind of childish. I thought Roxas was okay but obviously not as cool as others think, but I can see Sora's flaws too, beyond just being childish. He tends to be very over-protective of girls for some reason, which gets him into trouble, and he is not -dumb- but he sure is not perceptive either. He fits his element of 'sky' well, and Kairi and Riku fit their elements well too. I do agree with what Gritz said about optimistic, but at the same time I did see points where Sora was angry or he was sad and it was his friends that cheered him up. Sora really does seem to be the one that gains 'power' from his friends and also motivates them. I don't know if I buy into the KH deal of he's a 'great leader' as I would tend to think Riku was better at it and if he hadn't become forced to be a loner, he was the candidate that had the most potential. In the Japanese version he is a bit more expressive, but I can see more range in him.

Kairi, however, I like her, but at the same time I do agree with Gritz here that she's a Mary Sue. She was the giggly bubbly girl that supposedly had the affections of the two boys, and it seemed Riku though was pulling out of it and even encouraging Sora to ask her out, even if playfully. Kairi in KH was pretty dull and I also agree that instead of making her personality more interesting, she just ended up with more funky powers of Light. In KH2 they gave her more of a stronger demeanor and she didn't just let Sora convince her to do nothing again and stay behind. That was a step up, but it's obvious she's going to have to train and get rid of the very girly way she prances and fights if she's going to be any assistance to Sora and Riku at all other than having her Light powers. Square has a serious problem with making girls that are so soft and delicate they end up always being the goodie-two-shoes healer White Mage sorts, and though sometimes it's cool, when all the time it goes on, it gets boring. I can't even blame Disney all the way for Kairi's Mary Sue deal. I think it's a combo of both Disney and Square.

I have hopes in KH3 that Kairi will do more and I also hope to see Riku not get shafted yet for a 3rd game and to actually get to show more potential than he had. He's not a character that should be forced to ride on Sora's coat tails. However, saying that, I also still do like Sora and hope he changes and grows up more and Kairi also grows up more and we see the next game come out where they all 3 are stronger and stand together better. Also, I have to agree with Gritz that it gets annoying when -some- of the yaoi fans hate Kairi simply because she's supposedly in the way of a SoraxRiku pairing that would probably never happen even if Kairi were not around. Neither Sora or Riku appeared gay to me in the least. They were friends.

 

Repliku you are a genius. I agree Sora is a little childish. But what I like about him is that he kinda like me. He's an optomist as am I. For example after the Keyblade he never gave up to find the girl he loves and for me. You or other people may or may not care or hate Kentucky but after those losses we had this year, I'm still supporting them the season's not over yet.

 

None of those references did anything for me because i think Animes suck ^.^

Like you said, She is a princess of heart meaning that her heart has NO darkness in it, at all. It would be pretty hard for her to be filled with hate and anger and rage when those are more commonly suited to the darkness in ones heart. And her keyblade... well.... it came from Riku, get what I'm saying? (haha, im probably the only one who gets it)

You know, i hardly considered Kairi a reason for Sora to keep fighting. I mean he was fighting even before we find out that Kairi gets kidnapped. Believe it or not, it isnt really about her. lol.

O.O personally i'm GLAD Sora didn't say 'I'll Kill you' I think that is completely out of character for him to say. I mean i can understand why he'd say it, i guess. But putting out death threats? BIG NO-NO. That being same 'You're Rotten' is lame, lol. And you know, he ISN'T happy all the time. Throughout KH we see him actually a lot darker than before. We see him laughing about someone being dead (Maleficient) we see him beg and plead to get put into the world of darkness and such crap. We see him egg on Demyx and insulting him and such. We see all kinds of changes. OF COURSE he isn't going to be this completely different character in a years time especially when he was asleep. I personally think he is very real and just because he isnt all emo like some 'other' people in the franchise (coughallthedisgustingFFcharacterscough) doesn't make him not human.
As for the CoM stuff, of course he is concerned. Naminé made him think that he promised to protect her no matter what. And then he finds out that these 'bad guys' are holding her hostage. Of course he would be get enraged. Plus as he kept going up in the castle he was losing a lot of other memories and the STRONGEST memory he had were these fake ones implemented by Naminé, so of course he acted harsher in a sense.

Naminé could have faded into nothing if someone were to actually attack her you know >.> But that is a good point, without Kairi there would be no Naminé.
.

I still think Kairi's keyblade being girly had something to do with Riku, haha

Good lord, i dont understand why ANYONE uses that colour of font - for anything. Anyways...
It's not about kids being stupid, its about them being highly impressionable which IS a true fact. Personally i like the change they made to Xigbar, i thought it looked better lol. I don't think the death threat is good at all personally. Especially for a game that is geared towards kids. I like how some people were talking about how Sora is so much darker and eviler in this game (compared to Roxas) and you guys are like 'he's to frilly' lol.

i personally think it is pointless to compare the characters to anything outside their realm. Goku? Really? Well maybe Goku is different because he is in an anime that isnt really geared towards children, or 'family appropriate'. Sora shouldnt have to cuss for us to like him, and i think thats the point. All of these games are out there with violence and swears and what not and KH is here and it is something COMPLETELY different yet so many people like it and i think that is one of the points of the series. but maybe thats just me.

Just because he can 'impregnate a woman' doesn't mean that hes a man. Do you think that if some kid knocked up a 12 year old when they were in the 7th grade that he was man. Would you say 'wow he is so manly'?

He never said he didn't believe in them. Sora said that once a long time ago and it was because Riku was making fun of him and telling him Santa wasn't real (Something i love about this game was finding out that Riku told Sora he wasn't real. I don't know i just thought it made the game more real because you realize that a long time ago, these characters were just kids on an island)

You really think that Riku acts about 11? Are you effing serious? Wow..... just wow.
wow.
lol.

Riku's love for Sora is unrequited face the facts people :P I hate Kairi. Though only time i ever liked her was briefly in TWTNW when she stops Mickey from running towards Ansem's exploding machine. That actually made me like her - a bit.

I don't love Roxas, i think he is the worse character IN THE ENTIRE GAME.
It goes
Original Characters
Disney Characters
Final Fantasy Characters
And then disgusting Roxas >.>

I think Riku is a full on homosexual, haha. Sora, not as much. I hate Kairi for other reasons though.
Anyways i like what you said, i thought it made the most sense out of these 'arguments'. Kairi is just one of those slow developers (depth wise). In KH1 she was hardly alive for it. So i consider KH2 more of her 'real' personality and in KH3 hopefully we will see her stregthen up more (i think it is clear that she is especially with how she is going to 'fight' and how she doesnt want to be left behind.) I mean think about it, she was ready to take on Xemnas with Sora and Riku in the end (and she would have if she, Mickey, Donald and Goofy didn't get locked out.) So yeah i think by the end of KH2 she already has shown some developement, it just gets overshadowed by some of the other developement of the characters. And since Kairi played just a minor role not many people noticed it.
Though Repliku, i think the fact that Sora and Riku together defeat Xemnas shows that Riku will have a better role in KH3 and that he wont just get pushed off again. But maybe thats just me being optimistic ;)
Don't you all just love KH debates? i sure do!

 

So why did he want to rescue Kairi in KH 1, or share a papou fruit with her ? (which he couldn't because he lost that fight anyways)

Anyway, another question, in your sig you write that Roxas is the baddest thing in KH II ? Why ? And can I guess one thing ? You hate Cloud too ? (I don't want to offend you I just would like to know the reasons)

To round this thread up:

I guess the most don't like Sora because he is like he is, optimistic and funny most of the time. I myself prefer Roxas for example. It may also be because it annoys us to always see him when there other characters which may suit well for the main character role too (why I want to play 358/2 so badly once it is out).

It is all a matter of preferences, and the most of you seem to play it just for the one character they prefer or the one action a specific character performs, there is always something in a game we don't like, cause life (AND) the game would be boring if there would be boring if there weren't such things.

So accept it and have fun.

 

-To make Sora jealous. I wouldn't want to go into this huge long rant thing about it, but Riku never actually LIKED Kairi. He just wanted Kairi to like him so that Sora would have to stop liking here and then he and Sora could go back to the way they used to be before she even came to the island. (might sound confusing, but in another thread at another time i could explain it better)
-I hate Roxas for many reasons, and i always have, even when he was known just as BHK (though with the release of KH2 i had more reasons to add to the list)
-I hate all Final Fantasy Characters.
-Roxas SHOULD never replace Sora as main character, no matter what. One of the things i learned in KH2. I find Roxas SO MUCH more annoying that Sora just in a different way.
Maybe people don't liek the fact that Sora is optimistic because they don't like the idea of people actually bing happy, there, dare i say it.

 

I agree but I'm not serious of Sora's personality :p Though his character is cooler in CoM. He shows anger and furiousness.. I was surprised indeed when he gets mad at Donald and Goofy. It's awesome!

Kairi is sort of Mary Sue.. I hate her Keyblade, too. It's too girly and extremely stupid. Why the hell did Nomura design her Keyblade like that!? It would be better if she didn't receive the Keyblade

True. I think Riku crushed on her. In the end of the game he told Sora to take care of her.

 

That or he knew he wasn't destined to be with Kairi he knew that Sora was and he accepted that and he didn't like Kairi, he wouldn't join the darkness and Maleficent to save her.

 

You know, i've been replaying KH2 and i don't quite get the issue. Of the worlds i played today (end of Olympic, Disney Castle, Timeless River, Atlantica and Port Royal), Sora didn't seem overly optimistic or anything like that. He just seemed like a normal person. He wasn't like 'LIGHT and CANDY will set us free!' or anything extremely happy. It was pretty normal O.o. I think in the first one he is more kiddy than in this one. His infamous pout was what made him seem so immature in KH1 and its gone in KH2 so i think it shows but maybe thats just me?

 

Sora acts like hes four, and other anime dudes don't? point taken. Kari's supposed to be a damsel in distress, she's a girl in a disney game. And Japanese Sora has anger problems. He should get a TIME OUT! He wont say hell so quickly then, meh he he, evil laugh! Oh well, at least Kairi has some sort of weapon. And you forgot about Mulan. And Sora is still cool enough to have fans, and 4 year olds dont have girl friends, so THERE! Now thats nuff said. And none faulty charecters would ruin my fun. Marluxia has pink hair, haha! I feel bad saying that, Marly's cool and all, but pink? lol.

 

I always figured that Sora's maturing happened through the course of KHII. Remember, all of his natural Maturing which occurred during CoM bar the physical aspect was erased by the beginning of KHII. Hence why at the start he's so optimistic, but as he goes on, he has to overcome various hardships, not least of which being the events that occur after the 1000 Heartless battle when he questions whether or not what he's doing has any real purpose.

 

It's just his opinion. Chill.

I can see where he's coming from. Personally, I think that no of them really liked each other, at least in the way that you're talking about.

They're all just really good friends, and that's all I can see out of it, especially after KH2. I mean, Sora had more of an emotional spout over finding Riku then Kairi; if there's anything more there, he hides it well.

Riku liked Kairi as a friend, and Sora might have had a slight crush on Kairi, and Riku was teasing Sora. Everybody does it, so why not Kingdom Hearts characters?

And I concur that I didn't like Roxas as well as Sora...In fact, a lot less...

 

i also agree

i have the exact same feelings

Kairi and Sora should be more open to what they have to say

like everyone knows the like each other too
they even know it
but will they admitt it?
NOO!

well maybe they are just friends but there is obvis some stuff going on between them
i mean why would Sora want to see her soo bad?
and i hated the scene in KH2 when they finally met again but like there was no moment to them selves
i was soo looking forward to it!

but aww welll...

 

I think Riku liked Kairi but at the same time, he realized Sora really had a thing for her. He was more upset at losing the right to name the raft and even tossed in if you lost or won that he was not serious about the Paopu Fruit. Also, he did try to encourage Sora to go give Kairi a paopu fruit in the first place. He knew there was a rivalry that was friendly but competitive against him and Sora for Kairi's affections and Kairi didn't seem to care really. She may even have encouraged it sometimes by judging their races and all. It was harmless but I think Riku took notice Sora would get upset at certain times when Riku was saying things and Kairi was listening more, such as at the tree when all three spoke and Riku said his dream of leaving the islands to find out why they were there and what was out beyond. Sora sighs and all.

So really, I do think Riku was attracted to her somewhat and liked her, but because he saw that this could come between his friendship with Sora too, he was not willing to accept it and decided to try to motivate Sora to go out with her because Sora wasn't doing anything and it would mean that things would be okay between them all. Riku's greatest weakness used against him by the villains after all, was his need to have his friends. His friends meant a lot to him and he was afraid to lose them. It makes sense to me he would do this for Sora and Kairi to maintain that friendship and not have something bad happen. He was willing to drop out of the competition, which later is possibly why he said when under Darkness's influence that they always were rivals. His emotions were all torn and confused.

As for being gay, I highly doubt Riku is gay. If he was gay for Sora he would not have shoved him away when Sora was grabbing his face to check if he was real. I don't see any point at all where he shows any signs of liking males, but can tell he liked Kairi to at least some degree. Sora also is not gay. He goes out of his way to help girls like they would die without him. Of course, this is all perception and we never know but I just don't see it at all with their demeanors.

I can say I wasn't crazy about Roxas. I didn't hate him, but well...he was just annoying sometimes with the emo trip. I do hope to learn more about him but no, I would never want him to replace Sora. I am hoping next time though we see Sora, Riku and Kairi, they would all be more mature and we see even more depth to them. It's interesting watching them all grow up. Also, whoever said that Riku acted 11...are you kidding me? He was the most mature out of the three and even acted more mature than a lot of the other characters in the game. In KH1, he was used and taken advantage of for flaws that normally would not be that big of a deal, but proved very bad. Sora could have also been taken advantage of if the roles were reversed and he was the intended Keyblade wielder all along. Both Riku and Sora had some dark in their hearts or Sora could not have been changed to a Heartless too. They were both normal kids with a lot of good in them but they also had jealousy, anger and such. Normally it would never consume them. I though really cannot see in CoM or KH2 where Riku was at all childish, let alone the points in KH1 where he was not being manipulated by the dark forces. He acted just like a teenage boy his age to me, and actually in some ways was pretty mature for his age.

 

I am a big fan of RikuxSora, and think they're destinied (spelling?) to be together. The fact that they're much more interesting than Kairi helps a lot. Really, I can't see Riku showing any real interest in Kairi at all, only squares half hints about Sora and Kairi. And my mind deletes any signs of Sora liking Kairi. But really, in KHII, the reunion between the trio. Sora's reaction towards Kairi was a real happy joy "Suck on that B*tch!!" moment. And then he came to Riku, who didn't even look like himself, and he was all emotional and crying on his knees. It's like, Sora and Kairi get the sap-moments which doesn't mean anything, and Riku and Sora the awesomeness with real emotion xD

And to Sora's character, he isn't all sunshine. He's actually almost cool in KHII, between the happiness and dumbness.

I guess Square needed an all through light person, and there for made Kairi. At least she's brave, or else she would have been a total failure.

If people want darkness and angst, I think they should play Final fantasy. That's sounds a little *****y, but think about it. Woudn't the games become a little to similiar if Kingdom hearts went on to angst? Kingdom Hearts for those who want happy endings, and Final fantasy to those who want angst and beauty. Even though Kingdom hearts isn't all sunshine, it still holds the light.

 

Kairi is from Hollow Bastion. Dude, check Wikipedia. Sora doesn't act like he's 4.





He acts like he's 3, MOOHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!:locked:

 

No idea why I haven't commented on this yet....

In my opinion, Sora's character went BACKWARDS with KH2..and as for his endless well of optimism I have always attributed it to the "guiding voice" he hears, some people say it's Mickey, but I think it's someone else...anyway, I think that voice is generally the one that tells him never to worry and never to fear (and I think of it as being a constant while he journeys). Aside from this speculation, I do admit that he is EXTREMELY, BLINDINGLY happy, but that's what makes him SORA, nothing holds him down, that sort of thing. I'm fairly certain his "airheadedness" is something that is supposed to mature (or at least I hope in the grand scheme of the story) into something that becomes unbridled courage, hope and confidence. However he should someday crack under the pressure from time to time, but that's not the point, he's supposed to be a bubbly and good-hearted person. I think the problem with your comparision's to the other characters you used is the genre they spawn from, which is POWER-OVER-9000 through TRAINING and are all hot-headed for whatever reasons (Naruto was shunned, Ichigo grew up in a very....high-paced household and Yusuke is a "delinquent with a heart of gold"). Also aren't all of them older than him (he also technically lost a year, it's never really said if he is ever aware of this or not)? I couple Sora's lack of common sense with how little he's been at school.

As for Kairi, she's not a well-enough developed character to have a lifespan longer than one game, in all honesty. She had practically no ACTIVE redeeming points as a character. I will admit that female characters ARE allowed to be femine, but they are also allowed to be dynamic and have strengths of their own. This was poorly executed on Nomura's part, NOT DISNEY'S.
-I place all of Kairi's character faults to Nomura, not Disney for the reasons that he created her character and that Larxene is an example (among others) that Disney does not have reign over his characters...if they did then Larxene would be the "evil old crone" both physically and mentally and none of the male Organization members would be clean-shaven, in addition to character overhauls to make them more "villianous", Lexaeus would be revoked of any intelligent lines., Marluxia made to have a lisp, Saix more cackly and daranged looking/mannered etc. etc.)
-On a slight tangent, I do not consider Square characters to be very deep (especially the female ones), I have played through FF7, FF8, FF10, FFTA and most of FF12 and I consider them to be ranging from shallow to par to sheerly under-developed (and the main "love interest highly illogical)...however that is not the point of the matter.-
The main beef I have with Kairi is that she is at best a cheerleader for Riku and Sora. I also consider Namine her better and more developed half. I have a twisted belief that Riku was actually intended to be a female character but would create "problems" for a perfect "couple" if he was that gender. (I also think that Nomura has something against female characters being beyond 2nd/3rd best and kidnap-bait...but that's all pessimism on my end.)

 

Speaking of Kairi... how many speaking parts does she have?

In KH 1 she had a few parts ok.

But in KH2, I can only think of 1: Destiny Islands 2: Attempted Kidnap by Axel 3: Actually kiddnapped by Axel, (i'm not sure if she does talk here) 4: When she gets saved by Namine 5: When Riku saves her from Saix 6: When you meet her and Riku together 7: Alter of Naught 8: Alter of Naught (after 2nd Xemnas battle) 9: Epiloge...

OMG!!! Dude, I don't even have to take off my shoes to count all her lines! And She is a MAIN CHARACTER!

Dude, she is a main character too. Namine has more speaking lines than her in KH2... And Namine only exist for like 6 days. Dude, Hayner Pence and Olette are just filler characters... for 6 days of scenes.

 

No offence, but I really don't see how those examples you have given shows that Disney has no control over what Nomura does. It really depends on who is creating the characters, whether they are working for Disney or not. And I'm pretty sure that Disney does have some say over the characters that Nomura creates and/or uses, such as who he can kill off - and Kairi is part Disney, isn't she? He has said before that there were things that he wanted to do in the game but could not because Disney would not let him.

And to those people who criticise Kairi for being girly - being femine is not a crime. Being feminine does not make one weak - Aeris looked more femine in FF VII but she had a lot of spunk. More than Tifa, who I think was actually the gentle and shy girl, despite the way she dressed.

Not to mention that I actually think that saying that being feminine = bad is just about as sexist as saying that all women should act nice and obedient. It seems to imply that being a girl is a bad thing.

I think that Kairi had a little character development. Not much, but it was there (and I actually think that Xaldin was the least developed character, not Kairi - poor Xaldin felt as if he would not have been there if they did not need a plotline for the Beauty and the Beast world). She was tough in the first game but she was willing to stay behind while Sora fought because she realised her strengths and weaknesses. In the second game, she seems more determined to help her friends and does not want to be left behind.

And I'm willing to give her a chance. I'll only stop giving her a chance if she dies (which I don't think is very likely unless she gets ressurected) and it's clear that there is going to be no further sequel or prequel involving her or the series ends and Kairi has had little or no more character development by then. And I'd do the same for any other character.

If I don't give Kairi (or any other character) a chance then I think I will probably be horribly biased against her if she actually does get good character development in the later series. And we're not the game designers, so who knows?

 

None taken, I'll just elaborate.

Disney most likely set up limitations for his original character designs but not their character attributes. Example, the modifications to Cid, he acts fairly the same (disgruntled, and not allowed to do his classic #$%^ cussing) but he doesn't SMOKE, rather he chews some straw. Also if you check the character design and planning, Nomura and some other person (who is not associated with Disney) is in charge. Nomura also works for SQUARE ENIX, KH was a collaboration...also in terms of Disney acknowledging the existance of KH, it isn't there on their end. And no I don't think Kairi is part Disney, on the orginal character art(s) it states Nomura's signature, she ALSO comes from an "original" KH world if that has an impact on your view of her being "part Disney". (Also if Disney wanted a vice-grip on KH's production we would be seeing progress simultaneously in the US instead of recieving word of it from Japan!)
My points about the character comparisions is that Disney would create Villains that leave no question of their vileness, you can even compare the Disney villains (gander at their designs, listen to their voices and notice their personalities and traits) in KH to the ones Nomura created for KH. The same applies to their heroes as well.

I would also like to see that quote where Nomura states he wanted to do things but couldn't because of DISNEY...most of the time he states things that hinder him as being 1.) not enough time or 2.) not enough space on the disc or even the rare 3.) "I [being Nomura] didn't like the idea anymore", something along those lines.

Also Kairi is more than allowed to be girly! I have no qualms against that, but being designated as a main character she should have some strength of her own (being a princess of heart is not a viable strength)! Sprouting a spontaneous instance of using a keyblade is not an example of that (Riku even had to give her it!). I have also seen PLENTY of perfectly feminine female characters but they also had their own strengths to contribute or at least showed significant growth as an individual. Kairi was unconcious for a majority of KH1 OR telling Riku and Sora to do things for her, in KH2 she was literally baggage that was being captured, idling (while in custody of someone else) or being held by the hand by someone save for the random keyblade moment. Given this irony, I consider Namine a better main character candidate than Kairi.

Also Xaldin is a villian, he isn't "expected" to have character development....however the additional scenes from KHII: FM+ and MAYBE 365/2 Days will provide more insight on this.