McCain or Obama?

LOLZ Well there are intelligent and unintelligent voters on both sides.

Anyway, I doubt he will do anything that extreme. He doesn't want to get the same approval ratings as Bush...

 

I meant in the very early stages. If an abortion should happen, do it then. If it's not possible to do it at that time, do it before any sort of brain function.

Anyways, I don't like the way abortion is being used today, which is a form of birth control. It should only be done in circumstances of rape or if the person isn't ready and mistakes happened.

 

agreed. I just wish they had a better way of doin it though, since either way, life is life

 

I'm glad we can all agree on this. Needless to say, the world is just one big orgy...

 

Have you guys seen the new attack ad against Obama? It basically says that he voted yes on a bill to teach sex education to kindergardeners, when in truth, the bill was to help protect kindergardeners from sex predators! It just goes to show that McCain is way too desperate to be president. That was my problem with Hillary Clinton as well. These people want to WIN more than they actually want to change things, and that is why I like Obama so much. He's willing to do what he has to do, but he isn't taking cheap shots like that.

 

well, Obama has taken cheap shots like that by misconstruing something as well. remember that ad that asks Mc Cain how many houses he owns and he doesn't remember? it was 7. but the reason he doesn't know is because they're technically not HIS houses but his wife's family houses that they purchased on their own. so it doesn't really count against him seeing as he didn't buy them. i'm not saying that Mc Cain is innocent of taking cheap shots at Obama by misconstruing his intentions but what i'm trying to get across is that Obama has done the same things.

NICE! *saves target to desktop* that's a very interesting animation, where did you get it?

 

1. Very good point. I almost forgot about that ad.

2. xD It was on Digg a long time ago.

 

It's murder when you , mid-birth, cut a whole in a babies neck, vacuum out the brain, and drop the corpse in a bucket or a trash bag. AKA partial birth abortions which Obama is in full support of.

http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2006...ro-partial-birth-abortion-among-other-things/ (Same source that you quoted)

Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007)

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm#Abortion(Again Same)

Further information

http://www.nrlc.org/ABORTION/pba/diagram.html

http://www.abortionfacts.com/online..._love_them_both_18.asp#partial birth abortion

 

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

Do you read your own links, Dr. Mario? I don't see what you find wrong with Barack Obama's statements on the matter, the reasons he's given for his stance on the matter in one of the links you yourself just posted help you understand his position much more then other pro-life propaganda websites twisting and warping what he says ( andin one of your links, it was something his wife said that they used to attack him?)

"I explained my belief that few women made the decision to terminate a pregnancy casually; that any pregnant woman felt the full force of the moral issues involved when making that decision; that I feared a ban on abortion would force women to seek unsafe abortions, as they had once done in this country. I suggested that perhaps we could agree on ways to reduce the number of women who felt the need to have abortions in the first place."

Barack Obama wants to help make it so that the unwanted pregnancies that lead to abortions never have to happen in the first place, but no amount of effort is going to prevent them from happening period, and as such he believes that the laws in place should be of the nature to protect these people and help them, not hinder them or have laws that force a particular moral value on them, potentially leading to these people going to dangerous or unsafe ends.

On the note of partial-birth abortions, as I noted earlier, a fetus' nervous system and other vital organs are not developed enough to feel pain or technically be considered "alive" until after the 20 week mark, sometimes even later (5-6 months). As one of the links you provided stated, partial-birth abortions take place during the 4-5 month period, but not after 20 weeks.

Not to mention the fact that partial-birth abortions are not the norm, most abortions are done much earlier at the 1-3 month period, where the child is significantly less developed, and as I mentioned before, after the 9 week mark most doctors will not perform the procedure.

 

The point with Pro Choice is it gives -options-. Pro Choice, despite what Pro Lifers say, is not Pro Death. It implies that a woman has the right to decide what happens to herself as well as a potential baby. It also means educating teens with safer sex practices and means that a woman can get assistance when she does make up her mind what she wants to do.

Also, Obama's point is a VERY valid one. If women cannot have the options to get medical treatment and abortions, they will go back to the old days of performing self-abortions which often times kills the woman too, causing her to bleed to death internally and if she lives, she may never be able to have a kid if she caused herself too much damage. It is -not- an easy choice for any woman to just casually say she wants an abortion. There are varying reasons for abortions and those issues will not be fixed by Pro Life that forces people to do things against their wills.

Next, how do you make abortion illegal? What constitutes a legitimate reason to have an abortion? Rape? Medical health? What some people deem as rape is not what others do, even in law. There are women that try to prosecute men for rape and yet get told it didn't happen because of 'technicalities' such as 'she was drunk' or she was dressed 'inappropriately'. Are we going to tell every female that wants an abortion that she has to go through a court hearing to do so when the court is sometimes biased and misjudges, letting rapists and molesters go free? Medical health in some cases can be deemed early on to be a reason but there are many times that medical problems actually arise as the woman is carrying a baby in the third trimester too. Womens' health can deteriorate dramatically in the final trimester and neurological, heart problems and other things can arise that were not even known formerly. Most women aren't getting late abortions but sometimes those who do have very good reasons to that could not be known early on.

I agree that there is an issue with later abortions done where there is no health malady as in some cases the baby may actually be able to survive with medical aid were it born early. Babies have been born premature by 2 months and been able to survive. If a woman doesn't know by the time she's 4 or 5 months pregnant that she is in fact pregnant, yeah, there's a problem there. But the majority of abortions that happen are done early on.

Also, some Pro Life people are against the idea of even using contraceptives -at all-. The day after pill receives scrutiny because the egg may just be fertilized for a few mere hours when she takes the pill. Every woman when she becomes pregnant faces some serious decisions in her life as to recognizing her stability, health, mental health, etc. Some of you make it like women just pop down to the lab and say 'get it out' all casually. In the majority of cases, this is not true.

This is why Barrack Obama stands for Pro Choice. You can alter it and refine it but at the same time at least there are still options and sorry to say to people, abortion will still happen regardless of whether people make it legal or not and like so many other things that are made illegal, problems will only get worse if Roe vs Wade is overturned. Pro Choice enables the person to decide on things and sometimes it may even just motivate a woman, because she has more stability to make that choice, to keep the baby. Part of the reason for abortions in the first place is the woman feels she is not stable and no one is helping her and her life is forced, which is a trait of nature and animals will even abort under such circumstances. The world doesn't feel safe to bring a new baby into it. The Pro Lifers have done a great job painting Pro Choice as evil, but it simply isn't.

 

so........what do you guys think of the 2 candidates choices for vice president?

 

Biden is a fruitloop who likes to have a "Changeorgasm" in his speeches. Palin is McCain's tool to get more votes.

That's about it, lol.

 

I definitely agree on the Palin point (as I know next to nothing about the other guy ;D). I didn't realise until someone pointed it out to me that the only reason McCain chose Palin is that she is a woman. He is using her a a gimmick to go "Yeah all you Democrats who wanted Hilary instead of Obama can vote for me because my vice is going to be a woman 8D".

She has to be able to see the fact that she is being used by him to get more votes.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

so true. i mean it was pretty obvious Mc Cain picked her to reach out to the Hillary Clinton voters. Obama COULD'VE had Hillary but he chose not to, now he has to risk handing over her voters to Mc Cain and picked some guy that i'm sure not many people would care much for. but by choosing Palin, Mc Cain might've given up the argument about experience because Palin has less experience than obama. but still, even though i want mc cain to win, i dont' want people to vote for him just because palin is a woman, and i dont' want people to vote for obama just because he's black. i wish more people would actually research the issues and make a descion based on that. also, i kinda find Hillary Clinton trying to be a good sport for losing to Obama funny, she seems like someone who is petty enough to be a sore loser.

 

Can't say I care for Palin at all as she stands for just about every issue I am against and is a soccer mom from Alaska that acts like she has a world of experience when she has none. She's also too fire and brimstone in her speeches, attacking brutally when she has nothing to back herself with and is a Creationist. She loses on all counts in my book and I do feel she's just there to cater to feminists that were all gaga over Hillary. What gets me is that these voters don't realize Palin stands for everything opposite that Hillary did so they aren't even caring to study this and instead it's all about her being a woman. As mentioned above, voting because someone is female or black or white is stupid. Whichever candidate is chosen, I'd hope that people would at least study their platforms, but some people can't be bothered with it. I can have respect for whoever votes for either candidate as long as they at least did some research and vote on the person who fits their desired outcome the best.

As for Biden, he's okay. I am not crazy about him but he isn't the worst choice out there. If Obama was smart though he would declare that if he wins the nomination he has a place for Hillary on his cabinet or staff somewhere where she'd be most useful. I can see why he didn't choose her as VP but she does have far more capability than Palin and if voters knew he intended to have her assisting such as with her medical program idea, perhaps that would do him better. Whether she's an awful liar or not, she is a good worker and does have a brain on her...unlike Palin.

 

If I could vote, I would go for Obama. The fact that I support Democrats, and that McCain is pretty much a second Bush is what makes me support Obama. I don't agree with McCain banning abortion either. Women have a right to make a choice.

On the topic of Vice Presidents, Palin is ,of course, just McCain's tools to get Hilary supporters and women to vote for him. Biden, I have no idea about him, so I really don't give a shit.

 

Yes, McCain did support Bush a great deal, however he realizes that this country needs change, so he's definitely not going to do everything that Bush did.

As for Palin, while she is a gimmick, the Hillary fans tend to be scornful towards Obama, so most of them who were going to switch to the McCain side switched over after the primaries.

 

Until Palin, I have honestly never hear ANYONE say that dinosaurs were around four thousand years ago. (honestly, i dont even know if she said it. ive heard people say she said it, but i don't know) but those new ads about McCain and Palin going to change everything doesnt make sense. about 98% of the time, McCain has sided with Bush on bills and such. Bush has all the big people in the republican party working for him. Cheney, Karl Rove, and I'm sure there are several others. Bush hasn't done a single thing right in the past eight years, and McCain just seems to be promising to continue that trend. Honestly, I don't know why anyone would vote for that, but then again 20-30% of the country STILL believes that Bush was a great president. I just don't get how they can think that, but everyone IS entitled to their own opinion.