McCain or Obama?

Discussion in 'Debate Corner' started by TheKingdomCame, Sep 10, 2008.

?

Which Candidate do you think will do a better job?

  1. Obama

    77 vote(s)
    67.0%
  2. McCain

    38 vote(s)
    33.0%
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  1. Panda Face Gummi Ship Junkie

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    obama! changa we need! McCain brings PAIN to your wallet! xD
     
  2. Advent 【DRAGON BALLSY】

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    McCain wants to create jobs, cut government spending, and stimulate the economy. Yea, that hurts your wallet a lot.
     
  3. EvilMan_89 Code Master

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    ok, well i decided to go into detail of why i dont' believe in either candidates enough to vote for them. i expect to have this post dissected and torn apart by people who disagree with me.

    Why I Don't Like Either Candidates

    They're both Senators
    Senators jobs have little to no correlation to the job of the President. Being a Senator shows no leadership skills whatsoever. Mostly, Senators just vote pass, fail, or present (neutral). No matter what bills they have passed this job is in no way reflects any real skills. Governors/Mayors are much better suited for the job because a Governor or a Mayor actually have to run a city or a state. It's not as big a scale as being President, but it's much more correlation than being a Senator.

    Their Voting Records
    Both John McCain and Barrack Obama have voted on things I disagree with. They have BOTH voted to raise taxes several times. John McCain also voted on quite a few things that I dont' like such as voting AGAINST more help for the Katrina victims during that time. Barrack Obama's voting record is VERY contradictory to what he claims to stand for. He voted to raise taxes and on quite a few bills that have issues that really matter he voted present. He votes present SO MANY TIMES. Voting present doesn't come across as bringing this "change' he keeps ranting about. Hence the origin of the joke "If Barack Obama is on the ballot vote "present"".

    Neither of them have much Credibility
    It's not just one campaign, it's both. Both campaigns have little to no credibility in my mind. McCain's campaign has said quite a few things that are untrue and have lied a few times, especially on the commercials and a few times on the debates. Obama's campaign has lied too, mostly during the Democratic race against Hillary Clinton. I'm talking about the whole issue with his campaign calling Canada about NAFTA and telling them not to worry about Obama's stance on it because it was just "campaign rhetoric". I'm also talking about one of Obama's higher ups in his campaign talking to someone (i forget who) and telling them that the troops withdrawal in Iraq was hopeful thinking but probably wont' happen. Also, Barack Obama lied about the Reverend Wright incident as well:

    "But the sermons I've always hear were no different than the sermons you hear in many African-American churches. I had not heard him make such, what I consider to be objectionable remarks from the pulpit. Had I heard them while I was in church, I would have objected. Had that been the tenor of the church generally, I probably wouldn't be a member of the church."
    - Senator Barack Obama, 3/15/08

    A few days later:


    "Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."
    - Senator Barack Obama, 3/18/08

    So no, neither candidates have any credibility, and I have no reason to believe anything they say.

    Vice President Nominees

    Sarah Palin
    At first, I got the impression that she was great. However, that impression didn't stick for long. It wasn't long after she was announced to be VP nominee, that I learned she's not what she presented herself to be. Sarah Palin is WAY too right wing for my comfort. She's part of the NRA (who I dislike btw), and she totally flip-flopped on that "bridge to nowhere" crap. However, she did GREAT during the VP debate. She at least did as good as Joe Biden, anyone who thinks otherwise is probably biased. She did change the subject quite a few times though which didn't sit well with me.

    Joe Biden
    After watching the VP debate, I got the impression that he didn't believe in what Barack Obama stands for. After doing some research, I found he quite a harsh critic of Obama before he became the VP nominee. During the debate, I also found it awkward that he spent more time praising McCain than Obama (I am not lying, if you watched it, you would see). However, he doesn't seem so bad to me.

    However......WHAT'S WITH THE OPPOSITION TO GAY MARRIAGE?!
    Both Sarah Palin and Joe Biden are opposed to gay marriage, they themselves said this during the debate.

    On Abortion
    I don't know any of the candidates positions on Abortion.....and I couldn't care less. I personally do have an opinion on the issue but I don't believe it's for men to decide the issue of abortion. I think the women should be making the decisions since they will be the ones who will be affected and they have a better understanding of it because of them being the ones who will be affected.

    Obama's Lack of Experience
    This is a big deal to me. Being a Senator (and you know how I feel about Senators running for President) for only 3 years isn't enough time. People have said "How do you expect him to gain experience if you dont' give him a chance at running the country?" My response: "He should go back to the Senate for a few years." Being the President of the US is NOT an entry level position. While some have argued that experience is not that important and doesn't give us insight into the candidates, I disagree (respectfully).

    McCain is too Rightwing for comfort
    Exactly what the title says, I'm sure you all noticed but he's kinda of a right wing. He is against Government control of the country which is normally good but right now the country DOES need some help from the Government.

    The Mudslinging
    Every other commercial on television is an attack ad on the other candidate. I'm getting sick and tired of it and most of the time they have misconstrued what the candidates have done to make it negative. Also the Presidential debate against Obama and McCain, I can't believe how much time was spent on this issue. There are more important issues and those two just kept going at each other about the mudslinging.

    War in Iraq
    John McCain seems to care too much about National Pride than the actual war itself. Obama seems to want a very fast withdrawal which can't be good. I'm actually torn on this issue because I don't know if staying is accomplishing anything but if it is, I dont' want to stop progress by having the US leave.

    Conclusion
    In conclusion, that is why I decide NOT to vote. I dont' believe in either candidates enough to vote for them.

    Now feel free to disagree with anything I have said. Don't worry, I wont' impose my beliefs on you guys.

    The only belief I WILL impose however is this: If you are going to vote for a candidate DO SOME RESEARCH. Know what the candidate stands for. If you're voting without knowing anything, DON'T VOTE, YOU'RE NOT HELPING THE NATION.

    *wonders if this post is longer than Repliku's stuff, lol*
     
  4. Advent 【DRAGON BALLSY】

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    Epic. Very nice, I have to agree with most of these points.
     
  5. The Fuk? Dead

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    Who cares? Barely any of you people can vote anyway. (No offense, but seriously)
     
  6. EvilMan_89 Code Master

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    how would you know that? i am already registered to vote. and even if they're not old enough to vote, this is still a pretty big issue to care about.
     
  7. Advent 【DRAGON BALLSY】

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    Exactly. Some of us can vote, and while a lot of us (including me) can't vote, it's important to be at least somewhat aware of politics so you can make smarter decisions when you're older.
     
  8. Advent 【DRAGON BALLSY】

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    Exactly. Taxing the rich through the roof (Obama's plan) will only lead to a worse economic crisis, whereas giving the rich tax breaks and leaving middle to lower class people's taxes alone (McCain's plan) will open up jobs and help heal the market. Once the economy stabilizes, we will then be able to give the middle and lower class people tax breaks.
     
  9. water mage Kingdom Keeper

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    No matter who wins the presidental election, he has a huge burden on his hands for we are in a recession and most likely since the economy is down the tubes, it will take probaly up to 5 years for us to stabalize.
     
  10. Advent 【DRAGON BALLSY】

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    Honestly, if the businessmen learned their lesson, I can see this bouncing back in two or three years if the right steps are taken by Wall Street and the Government.
     
  11. water mage Kingdom Keeper

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    That's possible, but highly unlikely. There is a lot of corruption and greed and to many handouts that us taxpayers were paying for. You know what I'm talking about. These polictians that would go on expeditions, fly first class, and bring their families while enjoying the luxuries that were given to them and guess who paid for it? We did and that's just plain wrong especially when the average working man or woman or both are living paycheck to paycheck trying to pay off their bills, put food on the table and cutting back on recreation. That just makes me mad.
     
  12. Advent 【DRAGON BALLSY】

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    Oh, trust me man, I know exactly what you're saying. I live in a middle class family, and I can tell that my parents are under a great deal of stress due to one thing: the economy. And while I can't really guarantee that there will be no more corruption, I believe that McCain's economic plan is just what this country needs. It's not gonna be a joy ride, but we'll get out alive. Obama's plan just leads to more turmoil, with businesses suffering and ultimately cutting jobs. Obama's plan will only give the average American a few hundred dollars extra a year. That's nothing compared to the amount of money they will lose due to businesses raising prices considerably and cutting jobs.
     
  13. Advent 【DRAGON BALLSY】

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    If Congress opposes a bill, the President can't just sign it into law. :\
     
  14. Explode Who?!

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    Obama isn't planning on taxing the rich through the roof, just raising it to where it was in the Clinton years, wich wasn't that bad. Besides, the rich have money to spare, even with tax increases, while now, thousands in the Middle Class are losing their homes. There's no point in creating new jobs if no one can afford to live.

    EDIT: The president can't pass a bill if Congress opposes it. He can however, veto the bill if Congress passes it.
     
  15. Advent 【DRAGON BALLSY】

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    Yea, but he can't write his own bills, he can only "persuade" Congress.

    If Obama wants to give tax breaks to the lower income 95% of America, the rich will have to be taxed through the roof. Either that or Obama just won't deliver on his promise. And I agree that it's sad that people are going homeless and hungry, and I think they should get some relief, but we have to think of the repercussions of our actions and not just the immediate effects. This plan will significantly lower the income of big business owners, further destroying the Stock Market and eliminating jobs.
     
  16. Advent 【DRAGON BALLSY】

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    I think McCain is doing a decent job. His plans are straightforward enough, and while he was a bit elusive about his beliefs in earlier interviews, he's made them clear now and has gotten plenty of people to rally behind him.
     
  17. fire mage Hollow Bastion Committee

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    I agree for we do need someone with experience and his plan to fix the ecomony seems to make more sense and would benefit more thus creating jobs in America instead of over seas.
     
  18. Explode Who?!

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    I'm don't think that Obama's plan would cause anything catastrophic. People making 50 grand save about $1000 every year with Obama. In all honesty, I don't know that much about the economy, but I'm fairly certain that that's not a huge tax cut, though it does help.

    Let's hypothetically say that the Middle Class' taxes are reduced by 1%, and the Upper Class' taxes are increased by 1%. And lets say that 97/100 Americans make $100,000 and 3/100 make $10,000,000. If the Middle Class' tax rate drops from 6.5% (again, I'm not sure if this number is realistic, but that doesn't matter) to 5.5%, then the government loses $97,000 . However, it gains $300,000 from increasing the tax rate of the Upper Class from 6.5% to 7.5%. This is only subracting one one-hundredth of their salary, and if the rich are willing to sacrifice one iota of luxury, it really won't have an effect on them. They aren't struggling for survival, so they should be the ones making sacrifices. I'd say it's better for them to give up one of their three mansions, rather than millions giving up one of their meals.

    This plan not only lifts a little bit of weight off of the Middle Class, but it increases the amount of money that the government recieves.
     
  19. Daenerys Targaryen ok

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    I think McCain is better with the economy and Obama is better with education policies.
     
  20. Reisen Twilight Town Denizen

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    I agree, McCain does know about the Economy better because he
    was Bush right hand man and voted 90% of the time with him.
    Obama knows alittle, but I think it will over due him, since he
    have to learn alot about it.
     
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