Mafia [Mafia] Mr. E's Murder Mystery at Misty Mountain Manor ~ GAME OVER (EVERYONE'S A WINNER!)

Also not Hated, to help narrow it down.

 

not hated

 

He did not. He just posted about my contradicting/discrediting you and then asked other people their thoughts on me. I wanted to add to my post, rather than just defend myself. A defense is only worth so much.

 

Good reason.

Do you happen to have any other reads besides Trigger, Spike and Marushi?

You get on me, but you're being pretty unsociable yourself... Why don't you ask questions in my place for a bit?

 

Oh oops my bad, sorry. Look I honestly have nothing new to add to the general opinion of what I think about the case you made for Trigger: it makes sense, I agree with you, and I would vote if we were not already at a soft lynch. I found I don't feel confident enough that anyone is mafia to pull my stupid, "PUSH FOR THE HARD LYNCH" movements. ESPECIALLY since at this moment, I think it is better to hear what he has to say rather than go after him and lose what he has to say.

Right now though, I don't know how to feel about Mish being a scum buddy. Mainly because her case about Spike seems reasonable enough to me and it pointed out things that went over my head. So I really don't know. Mish could be drawing attention towards Spike and away from herself. Everyone can make a stupid mistake every now and again. Even if those mistakes turn out to be repetitive.

I'm probably not being helpful. I'm sorry :/

also I'm not hated.

 

K everything's mostly better with my laptop, so here I am. XD

I agree that Trigger's actions were suspicious enough to warrant lynching. But, like a lot of people have already pointed out, we don't need any more votes on him right now. Pretty much everything I could say about it has already been said, so I'll focus on a few other suspects.

1. Mish

I already made most of my points yesterday, and then Makaze covered them today, so I just want to pay a little more attention to these two posts:

My problem with this post is that this kind of behavior is very similar to what Mish was doing. And while that is not really much of a tell in and of itself, it plays a small part in my theory, which is why I'm mentioning it.

The three reasons in the middle are the reasons in question.

Mish's reason:
"#121 Mentioned he would be keeping his eye on Trigger, but brought Beau to a soft-lynch in this post."
My problem:
In post #115, Mish names three suspects, and then states that she intends to vote for Spike later. While it's true that she didn't vote in that post, and that her vote didn't bring him to a soft lynch, it's still pretty similar to her problem with Spike in #121. And a sidenote; what's wrong with bringing someone to a soft-lynch anyway? I agree that it's not a good idea to go past a soft-lynch, but bringing a player to soft-lynch, especially as his reason for voting was a cooperation with Makaze's plan for voting off inactives, is a very important part of gameplay.

So, Mish's reason for suspecting Spike in post #121 is the same behavior she herself displayed in post #115.

Mish's reason:
"#189 Brought The Fuk? beyond a Soft Lynch which, if The Fuk has been hated, would have been a hammer."
My problem:
He's not the one who brought the Fuk? beyond soft lynch. Mish is. She took it past soft-lynch in Post #171. True, Spike took it one vote farther, and that could have resulted in the hammer. But to say that he brought it beyond the soft-lynch simply isn't true. In fact, as Makaze mentioned, he tried to get her to unvote before Spike voted. She repeatedly blew him off.

Mish's reason for suspecting Spike in post #189 is the same behavior she displayed in Post #171, and even includes an untrue statement.

Mish's reason:
"#230 When given a choice of who to vote for, out of Cal, Beau, and Trig, he votes for Beau, despite 'having his eye' on Trig."
My problem:
Mish voted for Beau too! And to quote Post #231, She voted Beau "For the same reasons stated by Spike above."

If this kind of behavior is suspicious, that makes Mish just as suspicious as Spike. This, when placed with everything else Mish has done, makes her even more so.

So now for my theory: After my accusation yesterday of Mish shadowing Spike or the possibility of her buddying with Spike, she's overcompensating and is now trying to throw him under the bus. Which, really, is making me feel like Spike might be town after all. If Mish is Mafia, it would make sense for her to try and get him lynched. Especially now that I've accused her of maybe buddying him. If he's town, she'd be at least cleared of buddying him. But if they're both Mafia, I don't envision her coming against him this strongly.

On to the other post I mentioned:

First off, everything suspicious with this post is subjective to all the other points made regarding Mish's potential scumminess. Just saying. Put your "Mafia Goggles" on (Who was it who called it that last game? Was that Cal? Thanks for the phrase. I'm stealing it. XD) And take a look at this post assuming that Mish is Mafia. If Mish is Mafia, she could be trying to defend hyuge now that hyuge is under investigation, after her initial "day 1 hunch" to ensure that later somebody could go back and read "Mish suspects hyuge." She also could be tag-teaming with hyuge to undermine Makaze's influence.

I mean, really, I agree that Makaze's not infallible, but she's laying it on a bit thick. First off, it's literally impossible to single-handedly lynch anyone in this game. Nobody was lynched by one vote only, we all played a part in every lynch, whether we voted along or if we simply sat back and allowed the wrong people to be killed. Secondly, for somebody calling Makaze out on rudeness (or, for somebody agreeing with someone who is) you're not being too polite yourself. Again, not really a tell by itself, but rather hypocritical, and in light of everything else, it adds to suspicion.

It almost seems like you're picking at straws in order to get us all not to listen to Makaze. And that could mean they're afraid of what it is he's saying.

But anyway, that brings me to my next suspect:

Hyuge:

With hyuge, I'm sort of in the same boat I was in with Spike the other day. Most of what is suspicious about hyuge is subjective to Mish. Is Mish a Mafia member buddying hyuge? Is Mish a Mafia member shadowing hyuge? Or are they both townies?

Aside from Mish's support, there's not much to condemn hyuge. There are a couple things that could be read as Mafia tells, (i.e., the undermining of Makaze's influence, even slight hostility therein, little things like that) but they could also be read as genuine townie moves. And honestly, atm I'm reading townie a bit more than I'm reading scum. Hyuge could be mafia, but she's likely town.

Spike:

Same as above. There's a chance that he's a Mafia member, but I feel he's more likely to be town. There are a few things that could be explained with Mafia Goggles, but they also fit as a townie. And this, coupled with Mish's attitude towards him, makes me question his scumminess.

Beau:

I think Beau is town. He's playing in a similar style to last game, and the noticeable differences are all attributable to learning and growing more confident in his position. And yeah, I know it could all be a ploy, but this in light of the information proven by his easy rise to lynch target in the first game and the lack of defense by many other players makes me feel he is most likely town.

As for everybody else, I haven't really formulated opinions on them yet. I must admit, I'm a little wary of Calxiyn's silence. It seems she was a bit more active last game. And I completely understand someone being busy (I uh, actually blew off almost everything on my to-do list today, so that's my bad XD) but still. I also would like to hear just a bit more from Cstar.

@Calxiyn and @cstar , what do you think about what I said about Mish, Spike, Hyuge, and Beau?

Also, confirming now that I am hated.[DOUBLEPOST=1416116900][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh, sorry Cstar. I see your post now. XD

Also, I meant to vote in that last post and I never got around to it. XD

Without further ado: ##Vote: Mish

 

Before I forget, are you hated, @al215 ?

 

@Makaze marushi confirmed she is hated in her post

 

lol, I guess it might have been hard to catch at the end of my tl;dr post. XD I really have a hard time keeping my posts short. XD

 

Aaah. I misread. Thanks.

I believe Marushi is Mafia.

 

Would you mind telling me why you think so?

 

I wouldn't be doing it for your benefit if I did, but I can't avoid it if I want to convince others.

About your reaction, I think the brevity of your response is a little telling given your usual demeanor.

---

Before anyone else asks, I don't intend to explain what set me thinking it. All you need to know is that I am completely certain of my read until proven otherwise by a flip. If you can figure it out on your own, more power to you.

What matters is what this means. If I'm right, Mish is confirmed town. If I'm wrong, Mish is still my second highest read. I would like to test this to eliminate one of them from my scum team list. As things stand right now, I would rather lynch Marushi than Mish to see if I am right.

My case against her is short and sweet. These are my notes for her posts:

The people she suspected enough to vote or call out as her highest scum reads were cstar, Beau, Calxiyn, al215, Mish, and The Fuk?. Two of these are confirmed town and three are looking like town. Mish is the only one with truly odd behavior.

The people she has lightly mentioned are Trigger (before and after his bizarre actions, due to getting here late on Day 2), hyuge, and Spike. Trigger, hyuge, and Spike have also happened to not question her. (In Spike's case that's because he hasn't questioned anyone.)

On the The Fuk? lynch, Marushi is one of the people who is in a position to remember how The Fuk? played last game and know that he was acting identically and that he was town last game, like Trigger. Her complete failure to mention this similarity threw up a red flag due to her usual second-guessing behavior, like how she said she felt about Beau just before.

After she voted Spike, she told people not to blindly follow me. She just cased Mish for doing the same thing. But it gets worse. Mish's was to a weaker extent than her own. When Marushi said it earlier on, she felt the same as hyuge seemingly out of nowhere while hyuge was under no fire. She said it because she personally felt the same way. What Mish said was correct, was meant to explain that she saw where hyuge was coming from even if she was being irrational, and more importantly, Mish did not directly express her own feelings of discomfort with me. Marushi did. Here's a quote from the post where she first cased Mish on Day 1 (irony):

And here is Mish's critique of me in her response to the hyuge case for comparison:

The similarity is uncanny and reveals undeniably hypocrisy in Marushi's case.

Another quirk: I noticed that while Marushi is casing Mish, she is not also casing hyuge on her own. In fact, she reads hyuge town when hyuge is the one laying it on the thickest of the three, but cases Mish who simply stated that I caused a lot of trouble for town last game. hyuge and Marushi are the ones who expressed personal discomfort with my level of control, but Mish is the one who gets blamed for it.

I realized that this makes a lot of sense if the scum team includes her and hyuge as buddies. Notice this part the end of her hyuge read:

This sets the stage for her to both eliminate Mish and clear hyuge's name for the same exact crime. I believe the strategy here is to lynch Mish with my help for consolidation, and when Mish flips town, she can say that hyuge is also cleared by extension.

She has the same exact feelings towards Spike and made the same exact argument for him when she first cased Mish. She says that either Mish is Mafia and is shadowing Spike, that they are both Mafia, or that they are both town. Both of her buddy cases leave it so that if her lynch goes through and is a mislynch, then her secondary read is cleared too. That is an ideal scenario for a Mafia.

Marushi has set it up so that if Mish is cleared, then both hyuge and Spike can be cleared as well under the same model. If Trigger turns out not to be Mafia, then I think Spike may be the third in this hypothetical scumteam. I can't case him due to lack of evidence, but the circumstantial bits make it at least worth looking into. If Trigger isn't Mafia.

The way she narrated my plan and played it up and down to some shadow audience is also sending red flags now. She has showed surprisingly little resistance to my ideas and asked few questions. Her comments about my plan have mostly been to the thread itself instead of me. She has avoided confronting me head on. Meanwhile she said that people shouldn't blindly follow me because I am often wrong in no uncertain terms. Not too long after, she called it brilliant. She spoke badly about my plan to the wind and simultaneously praised it. It doesn't sit right with me and makes me wonder if she is intentionally trying to stay under my radar. If so, it was working, until now.

 

"First off, everything suspicious with this post is subjective to all the other points made regarding Mish's potential scumminess. Just saying. Put your "Mafia Goggles" on (Who was it who called it that last game? Was that Cal? Thanks for the phrase. I'm stealing it. XD) And take a look at this post assuming that Mish is Mafia. If Mish is Mafia, she could be trying to defend hyuge now that hyuge is under investigation, after her initial "day 1 hunch" to ensure that later somebody could go back and read "Mish suspects hyuge." She also could be tag-teaming with hyuge to undermine Makaze's influence.

I mean, really, I agree that Makaze's not infallible, but she's laying it on a bit thick. First off, it's literally impossible to single-handedly lynch anyone in this game. Nobody was lynched by one vote only, we all played a part in every lynch, whether we voted along or if we simply sat back and allowed the wrong people to be killed. Secondly, for somebody calling Makaze out on rudeness (or, for somebody agreeing with someone who is) you're not being too polite yourself. Again, not really a tell by itself, but rather hypocritical, and in light of everything else, it adds to suspicion."

That is the point I was trying to make there in the bold.

@h y u g e If I had more of a case, believe me I would present it. The problem is, apart from what I said, I really don't. Mak's wall of text up there presents some very interesting possibilities that's for sure. My current case on you is far too centred on yourself. I'd need to look at interactions with you and other people which I hadn't done yet, an oversight on my part. I just felt the need to point out seemingly targeted 'hostility' as it were. I haven't decided whether that makes you a behaviour minded townie (Or at least, anti Mak-sheep) or a sneaky Mafia discrediting job, but we shall see in time.

Speaking of Maru...

(Mak your way of observing stuff is insane I'd never have noticed that)


"On the The Fuk? lynch, Marushi is one of the people who is in a position to remember how The Fuk? played last game and know that he was acting identically and that he was town last game, like Trigger. Her complete failure to mention this similarity threw up a red flag due to her usual second-guessing behavior, like how she said she felt about Beau just before."

So, are you suggesting that we need to have people who were in the last game comparing their behaviour then to their behaviour now? I'm not entirely sure on what people are like here, but I just think this on your point about her contradicting her "Second guessing nature"- Is it possible that this has been overcome since the last game and with more experience, she's more confident?

"As things stand right now, I would rather lynch Marushi than Mish to see if I am right."


"Marushi has set it up so that if Mish is cleared, then both hyuge and Spike can be cleared as well under the same model. If Trigger turns out not to be Mafia, then I think Spike may be the third in this hypothetical scumteam. I can't case him due to lack of evidence, but the circumstantial bits make it at least worth looking into. If Trigger isn't Mafia.

I just have to ask here- Does this still mean that we're lynching Trigger, or that we're going to take a chance on Marushi? I don't know which target is more worthwhile to lynch and I'm not sure what information we're going to gain on Trigger's death, other than perhaps an explanation on why he pulled his last minute vote switched trick. As far as I remember, I don't anybody has really been "buddying" him, so is there anything that we stand to gain from Trigger's lynch over Marushi/Mish?

"The way she narrated my plan and played it up and down to some shadow audience is also sending red flags now. She has showed surprisingly little resistance to my ideas and asked few questions. Her comments about my plan have mostly been to the thread itself instead of me. She has avoided confronting me head on. Meanwhile she said that people shouldn't blindly follow me because I am often wrong in no uncertain terms. Not too long after, she called it brilliant. She spoke badly about my plan to the wind and simultaneously praised it. It doesn't sit right with me and makes me wonder if she is intentionally trying to stay under my radar. If so, it was working, until now."

That is a little weird I'll grant you. When it comes to confronting you head on, I don't think anybody really wants to. It's a little intimidating because you're a very strong presence in the game, and frankly I don't think people want to get written off as Mafia because they doubted you. Maybe I put a little too much stock in people just being afraid to challenge you, but that's the way I see that.

Overall, as individual points, they don't tell much although when you pull it all together like you did there, you do seem to have a case. Therefore, do we take this to read as:

Marushi displays contradictory/hypocritical behaviour in relation to her reads and actions towards Mak.
Hyuge seems to go against Mak where possible.
Mish joined them in this criticism.
Therefore Mafia buddy team?

Something seems off about that. It would make sense with my allegations towards Hyuge, but I've never really got the impression that they were helping each other out a whole lot. Maybe I need to trawl through the thread in a little more detail, but it just seems that there is a pretty weak connection at best, although I'd be interested in pursuing it if only to get something out of my Hyuge suspicions.

 

I didn't originally have much of an opinion on the others. In light of recent events, I will do my best to provide what I can, but it is also 4:30 in the morning. Though, I haven't been sleeping at all since I moved, so odds are I will finish this post before I get tired and fall asleep. I've been running on 4 hours of sleep per morning at best for the last two weeks. [[ Sorry, tangents ]]

Yeah, I have been pretty unsociable and haven't really said much overall, which has just stemmed from a lack of interest in doing anything period, both online and off; but I will do my best to ask everyone as many questions as I can think of at this point in the AM.

I guess I should start with Maru's post about her 'mafia reads,' followed by your post about Maru, and then go from there. There's a lot to cover at this point, so bear with me.

Everyone has been very suspicious of Mish. She has contradicted herself a lot, as several people have pointed out with post numbers and quotes. I'm not going to repeat all the contradictory Mish posts, as many have already done so. I think she is on the fence. One more wrong post and she'll be knocked over into lynching territory. I'm still not 100% on whether or not she's just being a dumb townie or clueless mafia, but given what I've seen, I'm starting to lean more towards the mafia aspect. @Mish, if you have anything you can possibly say for yourself at this point, I would like to hear it. There have been several cases brought against you with with a great deal of evidence. If you're not mafia, you're really close to losing the town's favor.

Mish had been on the voting list for Day One, but at the time, I didn't think much of it. She was just another name to bring Makaze's plan into fruition. This time around, if she ends up on the ballot, I feel she's more likely to get lynched. I'm just going to start picking random people to reply to various different parts of my post, asking them each questions the subject matter at hand, rather than the whole. I think their responses will be more interesting that way. @Calxyin, you've been quiet for awhile, so how do you currently feel about the case against Mish? If the votes were a tie between Trigger and Mish, who would you pick and why?

I can only say so much for myself. I know in this post Marushi brings up my affiliation with the mafia, which then becomes a major aspect of Mak's post that will follow shortly. Both Marushi and Mish have mentioned me more than anyone else, aside from Al who was simply questioning my resolve on Makaze. I want to make explicitly clear that I have by no means been attempting to be buddy with anyone in this game. I haven't even really interacted much with anyone aside from commenting on Makaze's posts. Marushi and Mish have both said that they have a feeling I might be Mafia, but then write me off as most likely town. If anyone is shadowing me, it is one or both of them. The have put me in the hot seat. They are the only ones to do so other than Al, but I think he's probably town. He didn't call me out as likely mafia, only to cast the idea aside by the end of this post. @al215, do you still have a strong opinion about me? I won't take offense to whatever it is you have to say on the matter. I'd also like to know what you think about Mish and Marushi's opinion of me. The following information will likely put me in a negative spotlight, but I will deal with the repercussions of that when the time comes:

I learned a thing or two about shadowing in my time as a mafia member. And that is, the more you push, the more apparent you become. I was being honest when I had replied to Mish's initial post saying "sorry hon, not this time around." I know you can -- AH SHIT, goddammit Al. Okay, you don't really have to respond to this since you got your post in as I was typing this section. I will finish reading your post and add it in when I get to the end.

Honestly, I think Mish and Marushi are trying too hard. They've thrown me under the bus. Be that as it may, if I have to be a sacrifice for the greater good, then so be it. I hope that my potential death brings a lot of information into the light as to what everyone else is planning.

This section was incredibly brief. I still don't have a lot to say on Spike other than how he just dropped off the grid. If we continue with getting rid of inactive members, he should be the next. If we change things and go for someone more promising, then we'll have to decide what to do about Spike's absence. @cstar, what do you feel we should do with Spike? Do we get rid of him for not contributing? If we don't get rid of him, what should his purpose be?

Andy is another member where people waffle. His play style has been pretty much the same in every game. The first game, he was mafia. The second he wasn't. This time around, I have yet to decide, but I'm feeling town. I think he's honestly tried to contribute more in this game than he has in the previous two. He still hasn't added much, but there is more. Let's see.... who haven't I tagged yet... It's probably pointless, but @Spike, what do you think Beau has to offer the game? You went back and forth on him a little bit during day one. Has your view of him changed at all? Do you think he should still be on the poll for votes?

Assuming this is the truth -- no one else has piped up to dispute this -- we need to be careful with our votes. I've made it through one section of my post, the following is where things about Marushi get hairy and her Hate role may most likely come into effect if people aren't paying attention.

Your case was not actually all that short, to be honest. Your theory is built on the premise that one of them is town and the other is Mafia. For the time being, we will go with that. I'm starting to find it more than likely that they are both mafia, but to play it safe, we'll assume it's just one of them.

I had yet to respond to her accusations because I have been watching anime in an attempt to fall asleep and planned to respond to your previous post and her post at the same time the following morning once I had thought things over more clearly. Then I decided I wasn't getting to sleep any time soon, finished a few more episodes and this post came about and now here we are and I have questioned her quite a bit. I'm also not done questioning other people. @Trigger, what do you think about the case against Marushi? She was one of the people that spoke out about your behavior, but then didn't even really mention you in her post about possible mafia members. What do you make of that? You have a soft lynch currently, so who do you think is the most likely mafia member?

Again, I think they are both trying too hard with name dropping. Considering it is my name, my word is only worth so much, but I feel like it is plain for everyone to see. Until now, I had not once pressed either of them, or really even defended them. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I have said anything in defense of Mish [[ calling her to likely be town ]], like she has with me. I had initially thought Marushi to be town, but the most I really said on the matter was that she saved us when Trigger unvoted The Fuk?, though it could have just been a mafia swoop in to ensure that we didn't save a person that day by having a no lynch. My memory isn't great, so if I did have posts where I called either of them town outright, then go ahead and prove it. If I did, I redact that statement.

Also, considering Mak already expressed his opinion here and most of this is about Maru, they are excluded from the tagging, but I feel like I am still missing peop -- ANDY!

@Beau, do you have any opinions yet? You're usually one that doesn't have a lot to say about other people. How do you feel about all of this regarding Maru? Who do you think should be lynched?

OKAY, time for Al's post. I should probably read it first...

In regards to this, You start off saying that this post is about being Mish being mafia, but then start attacking me, so I'm not sure what to take on that. You change directions after one paragraph. I never said I was being polite on the matter. There were probably other ways of saying the things I said, but as I said, if you're direct with Makaze, he doesn't usually take not of his mistake. Half way through that paragraph is just you copying what as already been said on the matter of my posts about Makaze, so we'll just move on from here.

Whether you have a strong case or not, if you feel you have any case about me or anyone else, you should present it rather than not saying anything at all. You made an attempt earlier when you quote me half a dozen times. That was a start, though it won't get you far since I'm not actually mafia. But anyway,

I go against Mak because I don't want him to be the only voice. It's even harder now than it was in the previous game to get people to express their viewpoints because we know for fact that Makaze is town. I was a mafia member pushing the town to talk. Yes, I had some ulterior motives, hoping the town would lynch him for us so we didn't have to, but I also didn't want them to feel belittled or like their opinions didn't matter just because Makaze intimidated them. Since I'm not mafia this time, and the town knows Mak is also a townie, most of my posts have been to push the other members of the town even more than I did last game to make sure that they are saying everything they have to say, rather than just looking to him for his opinion or sheeping out because it's the easier option.

At this point in time, it is 6 AM. I am going to wrap this up now. I know it is a giant post and for that I apologize. I don't have a lot going on these days and since I'm not sleeping, it gives me plenty of time to type. Hurka. For the time being, I am going to ##Unvote: Trigger. That leaves 3 votes for Trigger, 1 vote for Mish. I have yet to fully decide if where I want to place my new vote. I have a good idea, but I don't want to jump the gun or just have others follow suit because that is what is easiest. I'm going to wait until some of my prompts have been acknowledged before I make the final decision as to whom I will be voting for, but I will in fact have a new vote up at some point in time today. I'm going to end my post here now and highlight the important stuff. Good night/morning.

 

These are the wrong questions. I think we should lynch Trigger and see what happens, then worry about potential buddies.

I am certain that Mish and Marushi are not on the scum team together.

hyuge and Marushi have not helped each other directly, but if I am right about Marushi's tactics, they are more effective than any straight defense she could give.

@Calxiyn since that didn't tag.

I think this is extremely unlikely because this is the second time in two days that Marushi has named Mish as her top scumread and tried to get her lynched. If she is playing a bus game, it is way too risky for my tastes, since Marushi would not be suspicious at all if she only made honest moves. If Trigger, Mish,and Marushi are all scum, this is the least cohesive scumteam I have ever seen, and that's saying something.[DOUBLEPOST=1416146356][/DOUBLEPOST]To echo what hyuge has said, I do not want people (this means you, @al215) to ask 'How high?' every time I say something. Most people have not done anything in this game as far as casing people goes. That includes @Spike, @Calxiyn, @Beau, and @cstar.

Beau said he would be waiting until the end of the day to post his organized thoughts, and I believe him. He is also confirmed town. We know that because Beau mistakenly thought Tale was still alive. Please don't spend any more time discussing Beau than need be.

Calxiyn just hasn't given us anything to work with, neither has Spike. We need to hear who they suspect and who they don't in detail.

al215 should stop asking what 'we' are doing and start influencing what 'we' are doing for himself. Especially if 'we' means 'me', which in this case it does according to his language.

 

Sorry, I was at a D&D session that went horribly wrong yesterday and though I was planning on posting when I got home it just didn't happen..

Reading everything over, I'm starting to think that it is very possible that Trigger and Mish are Mafias.

Trigger: For his suspicious behavior from the other day

Mish: For not finding said suspicious behavior odd & not commenting about it

As for Hyuge and Spike

Spike: I think he just got the short end of the stick to be used as kind of, a distraction. The way Mish said she "Thought he was suspicious" could be something she's using to take attention away off her. It didn't quite work though from what I can tell.

Hyuge: Aside from my first impressions of her being Mafia, I think that she is most likely a townie. Hyuge hasn't done anything really suspicious like Trigger Or Mish (And to be honest I don't really remember why I thought she was Mafia, so it probably wasn't that important of a reason)

Sorry this is a short post, but it gets everything out that I've been thinking for now. It is early so sorry for any mistakes XD

 

Normally I wouldn't mind lynching someone who isn't benefiting town, but I feel we have better developed cases on other people rather than just get rid of Spike for being "off the grid". It won't help us if we lynch him now, because I don't see us gaining any information on him other than him being confirmed town or mafia. If he really is mafia, he is lucky, but I feel we should leave him be, at least wait to see if he'll pop up again.

Do not write him off yet. You cannot confirm he is town, nothing except death (in this game) can confirm someone is town. Instead it should be, "Is most likely town"

What do you think about Makaze's case on Marushi? You said you read everything over but you seemed to have missed people's tags for you and you didn't even bring up Marushi at all.

 

I don't really agree with what Makaze is saying about Maru. I don't see anything that calls out "Mafia" to me, especially since she has claimed Hated. If someone else were to be like "Um, that's not true because I'm hated" then I'd be a bit suspicious. Since that hasn't happened yet I don't see why Makaze is even putting her on the chopping block. We all second guess ourselves, and don't think every last detail through. I think some of the things Makaze was pointing out (Can't quote because I'm on my phone, but I'll be sure quote actual pieces of what Mak said later) weren't Mafia flags but just Townie mistakes. I think it was just a case of Maru trying to get all her theories and ideas out, rather then trying to contradict herself.

I also could be a bit bias because I agree with a lot of what Maru is saying and has said, but in short, I don't think she's Mafia.

 

The reason my post was so short was because I was feeling an inordinate amount of panic and I refuse to let such emotions control me. I spent the majority of my life panicking and I eventually learned that when under threat, it is far better to meet things with a dead-eye calm than it is to freak out.

Truth be told, I allowed myself that one short post to let you know I wasn't dodging anything and then I logged out and went home to try and compartmentalize my panic and take a long look at myself to try and figure out what could have made you suspect me so thoroughly as to not only state you suspect me, but that you believe me to be Mafia.

First off, I want to say for the record that I didn't even know it was possible to feel so much panic at being falsely accused -and I AM being falsely accused, though I know you can't just accept that- and I now have more sympathy for everyone else who panicked when they were. This is actually the first time I've been under serious questioning. In my first game I was overrun at the end and in my second game I was murdered in my sleep. Neither was fun, but this is downright frightening.

But I resolve not to let that fear control me, and I am determined to look at things calmly and rationally, so I can defend myself once and for all, and we don't waste valuable time discussing me and letting the Mafia slide under the radar.

Now before I get to the actual defense, I also want to say that my new laptop is having more technical difficulties, so I'm on the family computer, AND that I have to be at church in at least forty minutes, so I might have to interrupt myself and finish later.

Now then. Most of what I'm seeing in your case against me is based on taking my posts and applying them in terms of black and white. For example:

"The people she suspected enough to vote or call out as her highest scum reads were cstar, Beau, Calxiyn, al215, Mish, and The Fuk?. Two of these are confirmed town and three are looking like town. Mish is the only one with truly odd behavior."

You make it sound like my early-game proddings were actual accusations. If I question them or if I say I think they're acting suspiciously, they're my highest scum reads. Later with Spike and hyuge, if I say I feel they might be town, I'm clearing them. Maybe I don't know yet. Maybe I'm not condemning or clearing anybody, and I'm just stating my suspicions and my thoughts. Not to mention, day 1 voting is not always about suspicion. Especially as you kept suggesting we vote for inactives rather than on suspicion. And yeah, I get that it was hypocritical of me to warn people not to sheep and then follow you. But again, it's all black or white with you. Either I'm against everything you say OR I'm sheeping you. Maybe when I said your plan was brilliant but your total and complete power made me nervous, that's exactly what I meant. I can agree with what you're saying and still not like your methods for enacting plans.

You also mention that I don't comment that the Fuk? played the exact same way last game and was town. But the reason I didn't bring it up was because you made it clear that we weren't voting for suspicious activity, but because he was inactive. Considering how bad things got last game when things were left to the many inactive players, I wanted to policy-lynch inactives early on, and I said as much. Of course the Fuk? was playing the same way. Flippant, unhelpful, meaningless short posts and jokes, just barely meeting the new vote/post requirements. If he had been Mafia, hiding behind such gameplay would have made sense, at least for day 1. But I didn't put much stock in that angle until Trigger pulled from the vote.

Which brings me to another reason you might suspect me. Yes, I messed up. I thought I had figured out your plan and I acted on that assumption. I was wrong, and the Fuk? ended up dead. As soon as he flipped Townie, I knew that I'd be under major investigation come this game day, so I tried to explain myself early on. I've already said that at first, I thought Trigger would probably be town, but that I realized his alignment wasn't conclusively tied to the Fuk?'s. In fact, with the way everything was set up, anybody pulling from a vote, even if they were sitting on a townie, would cause the system to be adequately changed enough to protect anyone else on the ballot. Obviously, when I switched to the Fuk?, I signed his death warrant. And before anyone asks why I didn't change my vote after Trigger went back to the Fuk?, it was because I was feeling pretty confident that I'd figured everything out. Hindsight's twenty-twenty, you know.

It's also been brought up that I don't mention Trigger in my post about scum-reads. I do mention him, I just mention him in the beginning and I didn't color-code it. I said that I think he's definitely suspicious enough to lynch for today, and that I don't intend to vote for him yet since he's already at soft lynch and I want to focus on other suspects for discussion. This isn't excluding him, it's acknowledging that I agree with his lynch, but due to time constraints and an attempt, however feeble, at trying to shorten my posts, I don't feel it necessary to waste time repeating everything everyone else said.

Now onto my scum reads themselves. You mention that I put Mish in hot water for laying it on thick and exclude hyuge when she was laying it on thicker. It's true that hyuge was more outspoken against you, and that gave me reason to suspect her. But the reason Mish read higher in my scum reads is because her suspiciousness towards you was one strike in many. It's about the bigger picture, it's about a whole lot of little tells that make one big suspect. If my case against Mish was built only on that one strike, of course hyuge would be more suspicious. And when I said she was laying it on thick, I was referring to when she said you "single-handedly killed half the town with your bad scum reads." I know that's probs not an exact quote, but I don't have time to look for the original post. But again, you view it as black or white. Either I agree with everything you say and Mish is wrong to doubt, (which conflicts with when I say I don't like how much power you give yourself) or I don't think we should follow you at all (which conflicts with when I agree on points you make.)

You also bring up how little I argue with you. Frankly, I see no point. You're town and everyone knows it. You also do have more experience, and I screw things up too much to rely only on my own theories. The only way we win this is as a team. If that means consolidating a lynch I don't particularly agree with, or going along with a plan that I don't fully understand, so be it. But to call me out for not arguing with you in the same post you read me as scum because I warn that I don't like your power is hypocritical.

Which brings me to my next defense. Yes, I see now that my case against Mish was hypocritical. A lot of the points I was making against her (ironically enough, including the point that Mish was being hypocritical) were things that I was doing myself. This hypocrisy could make me wrong. And I see how it could make me suspicious. But I can tell you it was an honest mistake, though I know you probably won't believe me.

And finally, on to what will have to be my last point for now. Last night when I was reorganizing my thoughts and locking away my panic, I realized what could probably be the biggest reason you have to suspect me.

I am hated.

That by itself isn't the problem, though. The problem is in that I made such a big deal over "what if everyone else is hated," even posting that I "about had a heart-attack" When Spike and Mish brought the Fuk? up to hard-lynch minus 1. True that this looks really bad. I admit it, this looks really bad. My reasons for doing so are simple enough, however.

Quite simply put, I took a page out of your book from last game. You consistently "warned" the watcher that he should protect you, while you, being the watcher, watched Beau/Midnight. This way, the Mafia were scared into not murdering you, while you were able to catch it when they went after Beau. My reasons were a little similar, with a bit of reversal. By consistently warning people not to vote "because they might be hated," I could try and keep townies from voting absent-mindedly, while seeing who was willing to take each candidate to the possible hard-lynch state. We have nothing to gain from a hard-lynch early in the day. If Mafia can "accidentally" cause a pop, however, all the better for them.

Which, coincidentally, is one reason I suspect Mish, and probably Spike. Of the two of them, Spike is more careless. If they are both Mafia, I'd want Mish gone first, and Spike to feel relatively safe in his position. People are more likely to make mistakes if they think they're secure than they are when they know they're being watched. The same applies to hyuge, though to a lesser extent because I don't envision hyuge being too careless to begin with. Once everyone agreed we should be open about who's hated, that reasoning fell out the window. Besides, it would be pointless for me to pretend any longer: since everybody else was confirming NOT-hated, it would only be a matter of time before I was the only one who didn't say no. In hindsight, I suppose I could have lied, and then eventually everyone would say they weren't hated and nobody would know who was lying, but the thought didn't even occur to me.

And now I really have to go. I've already spent fifteen minutes more than I intended to, and I'm late. I'll try to address anything I left out when I get home from church. Please, give me a chance. I know I said I compartmentalized my fear, but I still don't want to die. I know my alignment. Don't make this mistake.

 

The reason I brought post #121 to attention is because I believe that Spike is both trying to distance himself from Trigger and put Beau in the hot seat. This is why, at the end of my post, I concluded that Beau was likely town. You conveniently ommitted that part of my post in your quote. You could say that you left it out because you weren't addressing that part of my post, but it just seems odd that you've kept everything else, including my response to Makaze.

I explicitly stated that my 3 hunches were 'not more than guesses at this point' and even said to al that I was just looking to get his reaction. Spike, on the other hand, said that he was 'keeping his eye on Trigger'. This gives the illusion of appearing convicted while not committing to anything.

You're correct. I should have said 'brought The Fuk? past soft lynch +1. My bad. The point still stands though. Spike is the one who put The Fuk? in danger of being lynched and I didn't just blow Makaze off. I had my my reasons, wrong as they were..

I voted for Beau because I needed to as part of Mak's plan. Spike chose Beau and I followed suit.

Your theory of me being mafia relies on Spike being town. My theory for Spike being mafia is based around Trigger also being mafia. With this in mind, how do you now feel about Trigger's alignment?

The 'single-handedly lynching half of town' was an exaggeration for comedy's sake. But I mean, there is some truth in it. Makaze did have a lot of sway in the last game and continues to do so. My pointing this out wasn't an attempt to undermine him. If anything, I hope he's learned from it and is more accurate this time around.

Cal wat?? In my first post of the day, I said I found his behaviour 'questionable'. I saw that he was viewing the thread and gave him the chance to defend himself before I added anything else. In my next post, which was in response to Marushi I said:

"I'm really not sure what to think about Trigger's last minute unvote/revote. I mean, the intention of Makaze's unvote, as SPECIFICALLY stated by Mak himself, was to smoke out any mafia who might change their vote from a fellow mafia to a townie. The fact that The Fuk? turned out to be a townie might be Trig's saving grace? I still find it pretty suspicious though..

Also, on day one Trigger came to the defense of both myself and Beau. It could be that he's trying to build ties with townies. Or it could be that he's just a super nice guy??"