Mafia [Mafia] Miami Haze ~ GAME OVER (MAFIA WINS)

Surely my guilt would have already been confirmed as soon as you saw that I was the only person who visited Midny?

Also, you're acting like normal town members can't be directed somewhere. I'm not claiming that I'm the watcher or the tracker.

 

Then you are claiming the vig.

Who did you plan to shoot and why?[DOUBLEPOST=1410224253][/DOUBLEPOST]Just a note, but real vig, do not reveal yourself.

This is a trap to catch two town roles at once.

 

Sorry, should have said that I'm not claiming to be any town member with a specific role.

 

Redirector has no effect on vanillas.

Red handed.[DOUBLEPOST=1410224794][/DOUBLEPOST]It also has no effect on people with special roles who do not use their role that night.

 

Yeah, the evidence seems to be pretty clear about Mish now I guess. It was just a little chaotic and difficult to follow.

@Makaze, can I ask your reasoning behind choosing Midnight of all people to watch? Also what other [ if any ] information you were able to gather before the mafia inevitably lynches you tonight? It's a pretty big target you put on your back -- similar to the bombshell Below dropped before being killed by the mafia in the last game -- and it would be best to utilize the information gathered before it's too late.

 

wait Makaze, if you are claiming to not be the tracker, then how could only Mish have been there if she is mafia? The tracker tracks one person and sees where they went. If you were tracking Midnight as the watcher... shouldn't you have seen everyone who visited her? Or am I yet again confusing myself?

 

I watched Beau/Midnight every single night.

My reasoning should be clear from my posts about that slot today alone. They were confirmed town. They were becoming smart town. They weren't going to die by town's hand. It was just a matter of timing. I would have been my second choice but I can't watch myself. I chose logic over trying the dice.

Why are you asking me why I watched Midnight?

 

How do you know that a normal town member can't visit a victim via the redirector?

 

Because Midnight is dead. If Mish were the tracker, then there should be someone else on my watch list as well. Trackers can't kill.

Read my earlier logic post.[DOUBLEPOST=1410225852][/DOUBLEPOST]

Because I read the role post. It specifically says that any actions Person 1 takes will be redirected onto Person 2.

There are also roles that target others but do not count as visitation, like the Watcher.

You'll be much better off helping town. Let me put you out of your misery.

@ars nvoa : Does the Redirector role redirect non-actions from either vanilla or role users who don't use their roles?

 

I... feel like either my question wasn't answered or I didn't get it.

What I'm trying to say is: wouldn't all of the mafia have visited Midnight then?

 

@Makaze: Nope

• Mish - 1 (Vivs)

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 5 to soft-lynch. Deadline is Friday, September 12th, at 5 ᴘ.ᴍ. (EST).[/list]

 

No. The Watcher only catches the mafia who sends in the night kill themselves.

Likewise the Tracker only catches a mafia if they happen to track the particular mafia who sends in the night kill. If they track another mafia then they get nothing back.

 

I know it was obvious that Midnight was town and a likely murder candidate, I asked why you chose her and what other members you might have chosen to try and asses who else was potentially town. I realize as I'm typing that it probably wouldn't have provided us with any information because we wouldn't get anything off of the other members without someone visiting them.

I'm just trying to what little bit of investigating I can while at work, though it's not showing much promise at the moment. Hopefully, later when I'm not so busy and tired I'll be able to perform a better job. // sighs

 

I'll leave the rest of today's detecting to you guys until the end of the day.

You know my alignment. You know the info I have. Good luck.

 

I would like to confirm in an official capacity as moderator of this game that no you won't you don't have the stamina

 

So I knew that Makaze had a role once default's role had been revealed, but lol, I actually thought Makaze was the vigilante. XD There goes that assumption.

Anyway, Makaze's logic about how he can confirm Mish's alignment makes perfect sense. So now I'd like to focus on a few things that have been said this day alone. Maybe later I'll go re-read the thread knowing both Makaze's role (though that won't do much considering he's watched Midnight every night) and Mish's alignment.

For clarity, I'm quoting these in the order they were posted. Calxiyn posted first, before the info was revealed.

In this post, Calxiyn first theorizes as to why Midnight was killed. Nothing out of order there. But the theory is that Mafia killed her because they were running out of wishy-washy people who won't point fingers (which, I think yesterday proved that we are NOT running out of) and then immediately theorizes that maybe the wishy-washy peeps are likely mafia, particularly calling out Hayabusa and Cstar. People that so far, haven't acted particularly suspicious. They're not confirmed town, of course, but why those two specifically?

After that, Calxiyn asks Makaze and I for our takes, stating that they look up to us a lot, and looked up to Midnight. Considering that Midnight is confirmed town and I am all but confirmed (I say that so as not to appear "too town" and jump the gun. I know my alignment) and now knowing that Makaze is town and would eventually be discovered to be so, Calxiyn just made sure we all knew that they look up to three townies. And they know that two of these three townies know their own alignment (barring Midnight who is sadly dead) so the people who know they are town are less likely to suspect other people who believe they are town. If Calxiyn, for example, were continuously pushing to vote Makaze and hinting at killing Makaze, and Makaze knows he is town, he would suspect Calxiyn. But if Calxiyn, knowing Makaze is town, tells Makaze "I think you are town," of course Makaze will still suspect her until proven innocent, but she could slide under the radar. All in all, I've had a feeling about Calxiyn for awhile, although if she is innocent I am flattered that a Sherlockian looks up to me in matters of investigation. But sometimes a tad too much flattery comes across more as buttering me up than genuine expressions of admiration.

However, this is hardly conclusive. Just something I felt ought to be taken note of. More on my "Tell the town you think they're town" theory in awhile.

This strikes me as, if not a warning bell, then a display of inexperience. (And I know I'm not one to talk, as it's clear that I don't have much experience myself) but still. Attempting to draw out conversation that would make public someone's alignment, is the point of the game. If everyone sits back and waits for someone to be randomly lynched, we will lose. The only way we can win this game is if we attempt to draw out conversation from people that would make public their alignments. I'm not saying that this makes me suspect you, although it certainly doesn't help me believe you are town. However, this might explain some of the reasons you haven't been posting as much. You should be attempting to draw people out. Look for tells, call people out, ask them leading questions about other people, preferably about people whose alignment is known, so you can weigh in what they say. Put yourself out there, despite the risk, for (as much as I hate quoting Grindlewald) the Greater Good. XD

ON TO THE NEXT QUOTE!

First off, I would caution not to take everything said here as truth. Knowing that Mish is Mafia, it is logical to assume that every category here is a mixed group of town and Mafia. First they say they'd like to get What? lynched today. Considering this post was made before Mish's alignment was made known, but after Makaze began asking the sort of questions that would make a guilty party nervous, this makes it unlikely for What? to be Mafia, but not certain. So I no longer think What? is Mafia. But we can't be sure. Then Mish brings up Vivi and BtD. Again, it's not very likely that these two are Mafia, otherwise another Mafia member wouldn't want to put them on the spot. But considering the fact that Mish did not know they were about to be outed, there is a possibility of mentioning them in an effort to put known distance between two mafia members for long-term play.

However, this is again, inconclusive. I would say that What? Vivi and BtD are very likely town. But if I were to hazard a guess as to which one is more likely to be Mafia on the off-chance at my above theorizing, I'd say Vivi is most suspicious of the three.

Now on to her picks for town. I feel a bit silly theorizing about this one as I am a member of the group. But I believe that this group would again, have at least one Mafia member. My reasoning for this theory is the same theory I talked about earlier. Tell a town member "I think you're town" and everything they say then seems more innocent to that town member. In this case, Me, hyuge, Cstar and Cal (real quick, which on is Cal again? I'm so bad with names. XD) Assuming that at least two of these four are town, those two townies would be like "Hmm, well, they're right about me. Can't out-and-out take their word about the others, but obvi they're not always wrong." If every person a Mafia member says is town is really Mafia, then not only would they be playing a very risky long-term game, they wouldn't be gaining any trust from any really town members.

However, I'm not going to theorize as to who in this list is most suspicious, partially because I don't know which person Cal is, and partially because as I am listed in this group, I feel like it would be a bit of a conflict of interest.

And finally, the three mentioned as ???? people. Luxord, Cat, and Hayabusa. I would say that it's likely at least one of these peeps is a member of the Mafia. I would lean more towards Cat or Hayabusa as opposed to Princess, but that's merely speculation. Princess seems to have done more suspicious things, but those things can be explained by general behavioral patterns, while part of the suspicion with Cat and Hayabusa is the fact that they haven't posted much. Out of Cat and Hayabusa, I'd probs lean more towards Cat. But yeah. XD

And the last post I want to point out for now:

Vivi, (Wait, this is Vivi, right? Assuming so for the argument.) While it's completely understandable to be like "Welp, she's Mafia. Let's lynch her," I just wanna say that I'd like to hear more from you regarding who you would "take a stab at" if we were to decide to let the Vig handle it. Which, I'm not saying is a good plan, btw. If the Vig were to take out Mish tonight, she would still be able to advise the others one more night. We ought to take out the Mafia while we know they're Mafia. Unless, @Makaze, you have more experience with Mafia. If the tracker were to watch Mish, would any potential info they might gain be worth the risk of outing themselves, especially knowing that Mish knows she's beng watched?

Assuming that this isn't the case, then no, it's not a good idea to leave Mish to the vig. HOWEVER, back to my original point, Jinx, who would you think we should lynch instead if we all decided to let the Vig handle Mish?

 

I'm going to bed shortly, so this will be brief, but I just wanted to clarify a couple of things for @Marushi.

Cal is Calxiyn.

Yes, Jinx is Vivi.

Also, if we don't kill Mish today and look for other possible mafia suspects, leaving Mish for the vigilante, it would probably be unwise of the Tracker to waste his / her efforts following Mish. If she's Mafia -- I say if only because the scenario I am about to present is a hypothetical, though it is pretty concrete at this point that Mish is Mafia -- then it is unlikely that the mafia would send her out to do the killing for the next night. The Tracker would receive no new information watching her do nothing. However, it is possible that they would potentially send her out to do the killing simply to cover for the other members, to help conceal those that are left. The latter didn't come to me until I started typing the former, so I guess both are pretty likely outcomes.

I think it's a good idea to try and snuff out the other members using today's revelation, but we shouldn't risk mislynching someone else during the day cycle, just to leave Mish to the Vigilante. Yes, it would be a successful kill on the Vig's part and they wouldn't have to worry about making a wrong choice, but it leaves us open to the possibility of losing two more townies -- one during the day, and one at night. It seems like a risky move given the current situation. There is a lot of speculation for other possible mafia members, but the list is pretty long. If we can condense it, saving Mish for the Vigilante would be all right. In our current state, we are looking at another serious blow to our town vs mafia ratio. There isn't much time left before we get overrun by the mafia and it would be good to win this time.xx

 

Alright, thank you hyuge for you input, and for helping me with those two names. XD

I'm pretty tired myself, so I'll think more on what you're saying tomorrow, though for now it makes sense and I agree with most of it.

 

It's not so much that Mish was trying to get someone to divulge vital information (who isn't?), as it was how the message was worded. It felt nearly...hostile. Like a potential Mafia member trying to draw suspicion to another target.

That make more sense?

 

Hmm... It might make more sense tomorrow (I really ought to just log off for the night, and yet, here I am) but for now, I suppose it could work... but in regard to how a post was worded making it look more suspicious, I must say that the wording of your post is what I was talking about myself. If you meant to say that the wording seemed hostile, that was not what your post came across as saying at all. You didn't even mention the hostility of the statement. You just said that it was far more suspicious because it seemed to be an attempt to draw out conversation from people that would make known their alignment be they town or Mafia. If this is not what you meant, then perhaps you ought to watch your own wording.