Mafia [Mafia] Miami Haze ~ GAME OVER (MAFIA WINS)

I think his move there was because he saw no room for debate and wanted to move things along. He was hardly the worst offender on that wagon. Everyone who voted past a soft-lynch was bandwagoning.

I suspect he wanted to see if default was mafia or not so that he could push people to kill me today if he turned up town. I'd like to hear his thoughts on 'what happened', since he was curious.

@Princess ?[DOUBLEPOST=1409627649][/DOUBLEPOST]@Princess ♥ ? * My bad.

 

Me sticking with Makaze was going to get the town nowhere, so I switched to default because that was the only vote that actually made sense considering it was either that or sticking with someone who wasn't going to get enough votes. Or not voting at all, which is even worse.

If that is enough to draw suspicion. We are heading down a slippery slope.

 

Wow, so I had known default was shady, but I was super surprised when he turned out to be the Reporter. It's true that it's better to have killed the third party member than to kill a townie, but after I was made to understand the true nature of the reporter, I'm a bit disappointed to see him dead this early. I'm also disappointed to see tale dead, but I can't really say I'm surprised. People keep saying they're surprised Makaze keeps pulling through the night, but I think the Mafia won't kill Makaze because the longer he's alive, the more suspicious everyone will be of him, and with how things are going, it's almost certain that eventually the townies will lynch him. HOWEVER. A part of this doesn't make sense to me, because no matter how certain the Mafia are that the townies will kill him sometime... the longer they wait, the more info we'll inevitably get. Of course, there's a chance that all his warnings did scare them off. So I'm still uncertain as to Makaze's alignment. I think we should keep our focus elsewhere today.

Midnight makes some good points regarding the importance of making the quiet ones talk... but I don't see how we truly can. We've proven that no matter how much we prod, we still get very little. Not to mention, the quieter ones were the ones like Jiku, who's being replaced, TWTNW, who's being replaced, and Hayabusa, who seems to be at least trying, and who doesn't really come across as Mafia to me. I know, I said he was most suspicious of the quiet group, but that doesn't necessarily make him all that suspicious. Since Jiku and TWTNW have reasons legitimate enough to require they step out of the game, I don't see them as being too suspicious- yet- and think we should let their replacements come and see what they have to say.

Speaking of replacements, Midnight, you're coming across as suspicious to me (And I know, I am suspecting a lot of peeps, but a lot of peeps are being suspicious. Sorry about that). I know that people think Beau was probs town because quitting isn't a very mafia thing to do... but tbh, we've now had six quits I believe. And yeah, every circumstance is different so we can't judge them all the same, but Midnight, you've been making the warning bells in my head go off for awhile now, and every new post makes them ring louder. For one thing, you seem to really want Makaze dead. And although you say that you find him suspicious, the statements you make are constantly statements like "I still ultimately think we should lynch Makaze due to all the information we would gain from his lynch" and things like that. Almost as if his being a townie is a foregone conclusion but you're anxious to kill him anyway.

So if I were to make a list of the people I find suspicious atm, I'd say I'm suspicious of Midnight the most atm, now that default is gone. And then I still find some of Makaze's posts suspicious (sidenote, Princess, the point I had intended to make regarding his post count is everyone will post suspicious stuff within 120 posts or more, simply due to the nature of the game, so while this does not justify his behavior, it helps to understand it in perspective with everything else.) but I grow less certain of his overall scuminess with every passing day. But those two are the only ones I suspect that I can actually give reason for. The other people who, like I said, are just setting off warning bells, are What? and Vivi (btw, sorry I called you a girl. As I'm sure some people can tell you, I do that a lot. XD) and then I do feel a bit suspicious of the Fuk? and Princess, though with them I find them less suspicious then What? and Vivi.

But I'm still sick, guys, and I'm really tired, so I'm sorry if I rambled, and please investigate this all for yourselves. Give me some feedback, so I know if things are the way I see, or if I'm reading things that aren't there.

Again, sorry for the long post and confusing paragraphs. I am trying to work on that. XD

 

We could have pressed people for info before the day ended. Consolidation only helps town if it's to avoid a No Lynch. Hard lynches are rarely better than more posts.[DOUBLEPOST=1409628511][/DOUBLEPOST]

Midnight is anxious to find out my alignment. She's not wrong in her reasoning. Once the rest of the players know my alignment, all of my posts and all of the attacks against me will be worth something. It will be more than arguing. It will be evidence.

Does that make sense?

 

Yes, this makes sense. But if we feel that you're town, killing you sooner makes less sense than killing you later. Because when you eventually die, we WILL get to look at your posts and see things from a better light, but the longer you live the more you'll figure out, and the more we'll be able to see later. So I'm saying that her reasons make sense, but it doesn't make sense to rush just for those reasons. She does not seem quite convicted in regards to your alignment, but rather, she seems more to want to kill you quickly to get the info you've already found instead of allowing you to continue finding more. Even if her motives are pure, this doesn't seem like a very good plan.

Course, maybe I'm just being Treebeard from LotR. "Don't... be... hasty." XD

 

I think what she is saying makes a lot of sense. It's no reason for suspicion.

Focus... Focus... You could take your own advice about haste. Midnight in particular has a lot going for her as a town. If she has suspicious activity, that makes her a neutral read instead of a scum read.

Important questions to ask yourself: What do you gain by saying you find her suspicious? Did you ask her a question? Did you get info from other people? What was your intention in voicing your views aloud?

Think about the end result of everything you say. If you find some part of it is just fluff to show that you're thinking, you're probably not doing much good.

Don't miss the forest for the trees.

 

Kay, thanks. Big game picture, gotta find that. XD

I think my intention in voicing my suspicions is mainly to get a read on how people feel about it. Like I said, whether I'm just reading things into nothing or if anyone else sees anything as well. I'm putting my opinions out there TO find out if they're valid. I won't know who to suspect and who to vote for, who to try to raise a following for or how to raise that following without first testing the waters to see how people respond to the things I say. That way, not only can I judge the named suspect based on their own arguments, I can also remember later who is quick to defend and who is quick to attack the accused.

 

Noticed how virtually no one has taken you seriously. Almost no one you have said you found suspicious has replied to you aside from me. There a few others who are facing the same thing, but you're the most jumpy.

Your current tactic is to poke them and then run away, then poke another player. That kind of pressure doesn't exactly strike fear into the target. If I were mafia, all I would I have to do is ignore it. I know you'll move onto someone else on your own.

It doesn't invite a particular type of reply, either. Even if they do reply to your suspicion, you get less info from their general defense than you would get from the answers to any number of questions: Why do you think X happened? Why did you vote for Y when you did? What do you think is the best way to hunt mafia as a group?

Asking even one of these forces them to reply in some way. Ignoring a direct question is suspicious. Hoping for a reply is a gamble at best.

Don't pull your punches. Don't soak your firsts in self-doubts and "maybe I'm wrong"s. If you want to test for reactions, make sure you get them in the first place. That means asking direct questions that can't be avoided easily.

 

@Marushi Okay so the reason I've been saying we should lynch Makaze is that we need information, we need evidence to back up our accusations and look at them in a new light. The Mafia purposely killed someone who we gained nothing from, looking back at his posts told us nothing. We're still as blind as we were yesterday. The thing with Makaze is that he's had a lot of people after him, he's voiced his suspicions on a lot of people and defended some people. Once we know his alignment we can go back and view all these things in his posts. If Town we can take them all at face value and more look at who was pushing for his death/his suspicions. If he's Mafia who he defended (like Bite the Dust) and who he pushed to kill, might be looked at in a different light.

If I'm completely honest, I actually think he's town from various little things in his posts, I'm not sure I could pick them out but I don't actually think he's mafia and am starting to trust him more. Of course, I wouldn't put it past him for him to actually be Mafia with the illusion of being town, in which case I'm making a big mistake trusting him a bit more.

Still despite all that, he is the one person that has posted the most, voiced the most suspicions and people have both pushed to lynch him and defended him. The Mafia is depriving us of actual information which we desperately need (and default didn't give us as much as I'd hoped). If not Makaze, I think we need to lynch someone who has at least been relatively active in voicing suspicions and voting for people so we can gain information about their death.

(Damn, there was something else I wanted to say in this post and I've completely forgotten what it was. That's really annoying, I'll post if I remember)[DOUBLEPOST=1409653261][/DOUBLEPOST]

Okay so my points aren't really just aimed the quiet ones, I think it's important that everybody comes forward and say voices their top suspicions. With the quiet ones being replaces, it's good as it gives the other two opportunities to voice their opinions. I agree that I don't suspect them but I would like them to talk and say some suspicions before the day is over. I would love to hear what both of them think of the game so far. We the quiet ones I don't mind if they only have short posts and just say 'I agree/disagree with this reasoning and I think/don't think ___ is suspicious' as that is a lot better than nothing (though obviously the more thought and individual points they put in their posts the better). I think some of them are intimidated by the big posts that go up and people like Makaze (another reason why even if he's town we might want to lynch him) but I think we need to make them realise that there is no pressure to put up posts of the same standard if they can't but they can't just sit and say nothing. Basically I don't want the Mafia to be able to do the same again, kill someone which gives the town no information at all. Once we know your alignment, it puts value to your words, we know you weren't trying to deceive us.

 

As Moksha and Mish are basically outsiders looking in now, I'd like to get their opinions on who seems off to them, as they have a fresh pair of eyes and fresh opinions to share.

 

Four:
Reno
Beau
TWTNW
Jiku

I can't say much right now, as I am at work and have a doule today, but I think it might be good to go back and check Ben's posts. True he wasn't the reporter for long, but there is always the possibility that he managed to find something out on the first night and included it in his posts for day two. He did have suspicions of a few people, after all.

That's about all I can contribute for now, if I have time later, I will try to add more.

 

To help other people, the search for all his posts in this thread, http://kh-vids.net/search/4453681/

I think looking at the people who pushed hard for his death might be worth a look too, remember the Mafia didn't know his role so as far as they were concerned he was town. (Correct me if that's wrong)

I'm still looking for now.

Oh, just a warning guys, I won't be home tonight/tommorrow/thursday morning so expect my activity to drop to very little or none until Thursday. I may still follow it on my phone if I have time but I might not have time and posting is more difficult.

 

So I thought I'd try to put together a list of everyone who voted for default in order with links to posts:

Day One
Marushi (unvote)

Day Two
Vivi's Dark Side
Marushi
Makaze (Note, he had voiced a lot of suspicions of default without voting prior to this)
Calxiyn
Jiku Neon
Cat~
lost girl
Bite the Dust
Princess <3 (I'm far too lazy to find the proper heart thing)

Okay, this is just for reference purposes so people can have a look at how default's lynch came about. Plus see if they think anyone bandwagoned, if there are any Mafia hiding out with the Town there. I believe that as far as the Mafia were concerned default would of just been seen as a townie (they didn't necessarily know he was the reporter).[DOUBLEPOST=1409670225][/DOUBLEPOST]

Just reread this and realised my previous response to this probably didn't address why I was so keen to kill him instead of waiting like you said. My reasoning behind not waiting was that the sooner we get information, the sooner we can make informed choices about who to kill and Makaze seems to be one of the people that would guarantee information regardless of his alignment. Also he posts so much that the longer he lives the harder trekking through his millions of posts to find useful stuff becomes (not sure how much of a valid point that is but I just thought about it). However, like I said before, I do think currently he is town (like why the hell would he agree with my reasoning to kill him if he was Mafia? If it was to convince people he was town, why would you agree with someone saying to lynch him even if he is town. He could have easily ignored it as he was the only one backing up that reasoning, nobody else has. It makes no sense unless he is actually town.) So if you want to keep him alive then okay but I think we should lynch someone who has been active enough that preferably they've pushed for lynches, defended people and maybe someone else has pushed to lynch them. That way they would give us information and help the town, regardless of their alignment.

 

I've only been halfheartedly watching the thread since this started and I skipped the wall of text posts lol.

I have both suspicions of Makaze and What? Both are influencers imo. And I agree with Midny in that killing Makaze would give us some vital info considering his activity in this thread.

Other than them, I'm LESS suspicious of people who 'bandwagoned' later on in the case of default and more suspicious of people who incited the bandwagon against him, which included Makaze, so there's another point against him in my book.

 

LOL to those who don't know how to make the "heart thing".

Press and hold ALT > Then while still holding ALT Press 3 on the numeric keypad (bunch of number keys on the right of the keyboard)

♥

 

If you are using a laptop that doesn't have a number pad or a cell phone that doesn't have symbols on the keypad, then using Unicode is significantly more difficult.

 

The day that I voted for default and no one else did, as Midnight showed in her post, I did not simply poke him and run away. I asked direct questions like you say I should, and tried my best to make a case. I didn't back off on my own, it wasn't until you had urged me over and over to drop it and focus on someone who had a bigger chance of being lynched than he did that I finally stepped away.

Then when I came against you, I once again did not back off after poking once, I ended up going after you so determinedly that I lost sight of anyone else, and I asked you direct questions regarding default, the Fuk? and What?. Once you finally answered my questions, I stopped questioning you, but I didn't unvote until What? brought up the reasons he thought we should give you more time, and I thought about them and agreed with him.

However, so far default and you are the only two aside from Midnight that I've actually had reasons for suspecting. You say my form of questioning is to poke and run, but that's not true. I poke to find things worth going after, and if I don't think I've found something, I look around for someone else to poke. That's not running, that's just not continuing to prod where I see no reason. Once I find something, THEN I follow through, and unfortunately sometimes lose my head over it. That's what happened with you, and you told me then that my behavior was erratic and my accusations wild. If I had just poked you and run like you say I've been doing, that entire situation wouldn't have existed.

That being said, I am satisfied with Midnight's explanations for why she wants to push for Makaze's lynch. I am not running now, but I'm not gonna go after her and risk tunnel vision when I no longer have reason to accuse. If I did that, I could miss out on something else that's even bigger.

On that note, whatever happened with the Fuk? Do you still suspect him as much as you did yesterday? If so, what are some of your reasons?

 

Speaking of @The Fuk? I would really like to hear his opinions on things, who he suspects the most and who he thinks is town. From a quick search of his posts, the only suspicion he has put forward is of Makaze (and maybe of inactive people). I'd really like to know who he suspects aside from Makaze as well as if he still believes Makaze is Mafia.

 

True about default, but I've seen you half-heartedly prod a lot of people by simply saying that you have a gut instinct against them. The only defense to that is, 'I have a gut instinct that I'm town.' It's easier to just ignore it than to get into a petty argument about the value of your gut instinct.

I don't get what you're hoping for when you do that.

I still think The Fuk? is by far the most suspicious person in the game. Every day they don't post makes me more sure of my read. I believe they are trying to lay low after being caught once.[DOUBLEPOST=1409686286][/DOUBLEPOST]

Can you explain this reasoning? How do you believe mafia profit from inciting wagons? Why are mafia more likely to incite a wagon than sheep on it?

Would you be more likely to incite it or sheep on it, if you yourself were mafia?[DOUBLEPOST=1409689976][/DOUBLEPOST]If no one else presents a case within the next five hours, I'll make the first move yet again.

Please be more assertive today.