Mafia [Mafia] Miami Haze ~ GAME OVER (MAFIA WINS)

MAK ATTACK II: MAKLASH

• Makaze - 3 (The Fuk?, Marushi, Princess ♥)
• The Fuk? - 1 (Makaze)

With 18 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch and 5 to soft-lynch. Deadline is Thursday, August 28th, at 7 ᴘ.ᴍ. (EST).

 

Vote: Makaze

 

ugh this thread has become a whole bunch of tl;dr but I really should be reading them because generally the longer a post becomes the more open it is to flaws and such. I'm half convinced Marushi and Makaze are both town and just going back and forth and I don't see it really going anywhere.

I want to hear from more people. There are so many people that have avoided conversation and they could be adding some interesting thoughts to the discussion. I still haven't heard from @TwilightBlader and we got next to nothing from @Bite the Dust except that he's apparently had no thoughts so far. I know last game BtD wasn't very verbal either.

I'm not very fond of people who only contribute to the day once and never do anything else. It's a strategy that I've seen work for mafia more times than I'd like: let and encourage all the townies to suspect each other for petty word mistakes or "personality traits", duke it out, lynch each other, and then you start becoming more active by the end because there's not much left to fear... and by that point you look suspicious for not talking.

We've been saying since the beginning of this game we should be watching out for the quiet ones... yet here we are trying to lynch the verbal ones...

 

^This. Makaze please defend yourself instead of shifting blame on to everyone else. I'm more than willing to remove this vote on you, but if you can't come up with a defense for us then I'll keep this on you until a better option appears. I want you to be town.

Here’s what I think.

I think that this is a good move from you. Makaze was only put on the spot at the start and there wasn’t that much to off then and by the time there was, we were too busy dealing with the more immediate issue of some quieter Maf while Makaze here was pushing us along with them. We haven’t had him in the main spotlight while we’ve had so much to go on. I’d like to see the defense he puts up.

And Makaze I really do fail to see the logic in using a typo with Crowley/Krowley as a case. When you say them out loud they sound exactly the same, so I think we can forgive that typo instead of waving a pitchfork around over it. I’ve made the same mistake (Or at least, I think I did).

Why? What about The Fuk?’s post has told you mafia exactly because I’m really, really not following your logic here. When I read that I saw that as someone finally properly challenging you. It’s interesting how you seem to fight back rather violently to accusations here, looking at small details and making a show of it instead of doing what might be a better idea- Defending yourself, and then identifying other targets. Can you give us a reason why you defer to blaming others?

I’ll be honest, I’m not even sure where that quote came from, however that doesn’t take away from one simple thing- That’s what you’ve been doing.
You voted Krowley, taking us past a soft lynch, without comment or reason, under little to no pressure to do so. You then forgot who you voted for.

No. Just no. I don’t think a vote for Krowley without comment or reason is inherently suspicious, bearing in mind that plenty of other votes have done the same and frankly, all that needed to be said on the subject was said, and there wasn’t exactly much time for anything else other than to follow. Nobody would question him abstaining, that’s true enough but if he voted for someone else then that would have been called into question and judging by what you’re doing here, you’d be using that as a case against him right now. It’s a small detail that may bear some importance because it would indicate who he suspects, but nonetheless you’d be using that as a case for an agenda, if I’m judging you right. Not many red flags to be found there.

There may be some dishonesty there. While yes, I have no idea where that quote came from and I do agree it would be weird, the false quite doesn’t mean that the message it gives isn’t. If I had to put that quote in somewhere, I’d use it when describing the view you seem to present. You’re encouraging activity and people thinking for themselves yet insisting that people follow along. It’s like you say, people shouldn’t be sheep- Except when it comes to you. That’s what I feel like you’re trying to tell us.

What gets me here is as Marushi pointed out, you not continuing the case after pushing so hard. What’s the point of losing steam on it?

Breakdown of your Default case please. You might have given it earlier, but you may as well give it again in light of a new day and likely new ideas.

I think the points made here by Maruashi are quite valid.

1. You cherry-picked ONE word in Beau's post and his reaction to it as the basis for your case.
2. You made the exact same mistake in word choice later.
3. You pushed for Beau's hard-lynch, twice, stating that you were impatient and that you saw no point in waiting, as no new information would come to light.
4. You now say that in trying to get a hard lynch, you were really trying to GET the new info you professed would not come.
5. Every time new info was brought up, you ignored it; stating that it would never take off because Beau had the votes.
6. As soon as Beau lost the votes, you jumped on Krowley with little to no explanation for it.
7. You now say that you suspect the Fuk? for voting Krowley.
8. You cherry-pick ONE PHRASE in the Fuk?'s post as the cincher for your case.
9. You cite his refusal to admit to a lie that has not been proven a lie as proof that he is Mafia.
10. You refuse to admit that his statement could have been a mistake.
11. And finally, you have disregarded the one thing I specifically asked you to do, and that was to defend your own innocence by actually talking about yourself, instead of only ever trying to push blame or suspicion on your accuser.

More valid points from Marushi. I’ve changed them into a list of numbers so for ease, I can just reference them by number. Mazake, you please provide an explanation for the quotes selected there.

Of course, there's the possiblity that Marushi and TheFuk are double teaming Makaze down here, and that would be quite bad, but I'm willing to believe that it's two townies trying to get a mafia down here.

 

Hi, first off I'd like to apologise for not posting sooner, when this day started I was in the process of getting drunk in a city I don't live in and I've only just got home now.

This is just going to be a fairly short post now as I've been on holiday and unable to follow the thread from the start. I've read through everything but I haven't really had time to analyse anything in detail and form my own judgements (at least ones I can back up with my own justifications). I'm a bit nervous about this as I've been notorious in the past for sitting on the fence too much but I'm going to try my best to put forward my own opinions and hopefully be an active player who is an asset to the town.

I will say currently from what I have read I am leaning on the side of Makaze being mafia, some very valid thoughts have been put forward which I agree with. However there's plenty of time left and I don't want to be too hasty, he already has plenty of votes for him and enough mistakes are made that way. If later in the day things still stand as they are currently, I may add my vote.

For now though I plan to read through the 24 pages (yay) of thread to see if I can form some more solid opinions of the people in this thread that I can back up.

 

Welcome to Miami, Midnight! :D And sorry, those 24 pages ARE a bit daunting. XD Good luck, and I hope you have fun!

 

Thanks~

Just spotted that, I'm aware this is no where near proof that Makaze is mafia or whatever but I'd just like to remind people that if he survives today (which somehow wouldn't surprise me) that his scum-reads aren't always right. In fact so far he seems to have got all his guesses wrong. He could still be town, just unlucky with his guesses, but I think that with some of the more confident players of the game, it's all too easy just to take their word for it and just bandwagon with them. I'm tempted to do this against Makaze but I think people need a reminder to look for themselves instead of just following, then if you still think said person is mafia vote for them with your reasons.

I'm still looking through, I just thought that quote was interesting and the fact that Makaze has only voted for Town so far. Other than that I've got a strong feeling Marushi isn't Mafia from her earlier posts though I might be wrong.

 

this color So, I pretty much much have three more days that I'm sure I can be on but after that I probably won't be able to get on the internet a lot. I'll still try to be on as often as possible because dropping a player mid game sucks, so I'll try my best and read through the latest posts (even though they're reeally long )

 

I'm not going to keep arguing with you about this. I said all I needed to say about it. Also, you're wrong when you say self-preservation is anti-town. Town members are the hunters and the hunted. Staying out of the public eye is beneficial for both town and mafia. It helps town members because if a town member can avoid suspicion, that means everyone else will focus on people who might actually be Mafia instead of trying to lynch a town member and doing the Mafia's work for them.

 

Yeah it's been bothering me a lot that people think that trying to defend yourself and keeping a high priority on your own survival means you are anti-town. If you are a townie, and you are trying to stay alive that action in itself counts as you doing something pro-town. You don't have to go campaigning left and right trying to lead the holy charge towards destroying THE FILTHY SCUM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMakaze.

 

Wait a minute! Just read through the whole thread. Makaze, one reason you say you find The Fuk? suspicious is because he wagoned onto voting for Krowley after you started it. But this is false. The Fuk? voted for Krowley in post #139, before you even voted for Beau! He then unvoted Krowley with no explanation, and What? asks him his reasoning behind this. The Fuk? responds that he unvoted Krowley because Krowley wasn't the only one acting suspicious. This tells us that his vote wasn't totally unfounded, he actually did find Krowley at least a bit suspicious, even before you said the same. If anyone was sheeping that, it was you.

Now, in my read through, I want to talk about this post, that I hadn't caught before.

First off, you continuously shut me down during the day-phase, saying that my suspicions regarding default were mostly unfounded, and that I didn't have the votes. Now, after that whole little thing happened with default when you thought he was disagreeing with you, then he said he wasn't, so then you thought he was agreeing with you, and he said he didn't agree with you either, he was just trying to get a read on your posts, he's suddenly your second suspect?

For the second one, regarding Trigger: You say that Trigger's suspicions of default could be the reason he was lynched, while you might have been spared because you defended him. After re-reading everything, I realized that Trigger was very suspicious of you, and even voted for you. Yes, he only voted to test the waters, but after that, he made several posts regarding his suspicions towards you. I would even go so far as to say he was more suspicious of you then he ever was of default. As for his having sided with you once already, so have a lot of other people.

Also, I realized something else last night after I logged off. Just a sec, my sis started playing the Frozen soundtrack and I completely lost my focus... Agh, what was I gonna say? It was important- OH YEAH!

Okay, so I just want to say something and make it very clear, to try and sum up stuff that other people have been saying in regards to self preservation:

If you do not take the time to at least defend yourself, you will ultimately hurt the town instead of help it.

If you are town, and if you are called into question, to carry on the way you are will only lead to your being lynched. So far, your posts have been contradictory, dizzying, and full of wild accusations based on very little fact. You have been twisting words for quite some time now, and your overall attitude in the face of opposition is bordering on that of a petulant child, and actually reminds me (if anyone's seen How the Amazing Spiderman Should Have Ended's Bonus Scene) of Doctor Connors, when Peter says "Poor Peter? Poor Doctor Connors! Poor Doctor Wants-to-be-a-lizard Connors!" And Connors responds with "YOU want to be a lizard!" idk if that makes sense, I can't think of the words to find what I'm trying to say. It seems that once someone comes against you, they're suddenly scum in your mind. Any valid arguments they have against you are ignored or given flimsy excuses, while the majority of your defense rests in "No, YOU'RE mafia!"

And you say that self-preservation IS anti-town. This is not true. If you're town, and we all think you're Mafia, and you refuse to make a defense, and we lynch you because of it, we not only lose a townie, but a potentially valuable ally. But I think you are once again unaware of how precarious your position truly is. You are certain you are safe because of the potential level of your value. But the longer you carry on the way you are, the more ground you lose. If you do not check yourself, I foresee a lynch for you, if not today, then very soon.


On an unrelated note, I have a list of everyone's post count and vote count, including who they voted for, if anyone's interested in that sort of thing. (clarification: I did not count posts made illegally during the night phase.)

Spoiler: Extensive List Time!

Cat: 17 posts. 0 votes from others. 2 votes; 1 against TWTNW, 1 against Zazu
Calxiyn: 11 posts. 0 votes from others. 2 votes; 1 against Beau, 1 against Krowley
Makaze: 86 posts. 6 votes from others. 5 votes; 2 against Krowley, 1 against Trigger, 1 against Beau, 1 against The Fuk?
default: 22 posts. 1 vote from others. 3 votes; 2 against Makaze, 1 against Kaldur-ahm
Trigger: 26 posts. 3 votes from others. 5 votes; 1 against Makaze, 2 against Beau, 1 against Luxord, 1 against Krowley
Vivi's Darkside: 11 posts. 0 votes from others. 2 votes; 1 against Luxord, 1 against TwilightBlader
TwilightBlader: 4 posts. 1 vote from others. 1 vote; 1 against Krowley
h y u g e: 27 posts. 0 votes from others. 1 vote; 1 against Krowley
Jiku Neon: 2 posts. 0 votes from others. 0 votes
TWTNW: 19 posts. 1 vote from others. 1 vote; 1 against Trigger
Beau/Midnight: 30/2 posts. 6/0 votes from others. 0 votes
Luxord: 21 posts. 2 votes from others. 4 votes; 2 against Makaze, 1 against Beau, 1 against Krowley
Marushi: 31 posts. 0 votes from others. 3 votes; 1 against What?, 1 against default, 1 against Makaze
Bite the Dust: 3 posts. 0 votes from others. 0 votes
Krowley: 7 posts. 9 votes from others. 0 votes
Hayabusa: 3 posts. 0 votes from others. 0 votes
Zazu: 9 posts. 1 vote from others. 0 votes
The Fuk?: 16 posts. 1 vote from others. 3 votes; 2 against Krowley, 1 against Makaze
What?: 21 posts. 2 votes from others. 2 votes; 1 against Hayabusa, 1 against The Fuk?
Kalder'ahm: 18 posts. 1 vote from others. 3 votes; 1 against What?, 1 against Trigger, 1 against Beau

 

This is interesting. Any of you three want to explain your lack of activity?

 

At this point we have a soft lynch on me and I have said my piece on everything.

My reads are still The Fuk? > default for the reasons previously stated.

At least if I die you'll learn from it.

@What?: Still waiting on that promised opinion from you.

@Calxiyn: The case against Beau was specifically in the absence of pro-town content when no other tells were forthcoming. Your accusation is false about the initial thing being the only evidence. It was the important bit but I quoted another post that supported my view. The whole case had two posts alienating him from town and his general reaction to being challenged to strengthen the suspicion. Tells + not helping town = pretty strong case, especially for Random Voting Stage.[DOUBLEPOST=1409008710][/DOUBLEPOST]@Marushi: That's not a bad point about The Fuk's vote on Krowley. I thought he hadn't voted except for that one time at the end. That does lessen my suspicions a bit regarding the vote.[DOUBLEPOST=1409008875][/DOUBLEPOST]Aaah, also @Calxiyn: I never pushed for a hard lynch. In fact, as soon as we had a soft lynch on Beau I pushed people to pres contrary cases so that we didn't tunnel on a guess. I'm not sure where you got this idea.[DOUBLEPOST=1409009494][/DOUBLEPOST]It appears I miscounted. One away from a soft lynch.

Sorry for misleading you.

 

Likewise now, we should stop voting Makaze, we have enough for a soft lynch and 2/3 days left so plenty of time for more interaction, more information to be discovered, more slip ups to be made. Let's not be hasty.

I'm also quite curious about the quieter members, so I would love to hear them speak a bit more.

 

You actually don't have enough for a soft lynch. I was wrong:

Thought I had four last night. Sorry guys.

 

Ah hmm, in that case vote: Makaze but that's not set in stone. If you can put up some decent defence and we have a alternative then I may change but as it stands you do look quite like Mafia.

 

I've already put up all the defense I can offer to these types of arguments, and as I've said before I believe that spending a lot of time defending myself is a waste of town's time. I prefer to hunt scum than protect myself, especially if it gets into repetitious territory. I'll definitely expand on that if I die.

Short hand defenses:

If I've got this right:
- I am mafia because I am too much like town. - Defense: What am I reading? This is beyond bizarre.
- I am mafia because I am too controlling. - Defense: I've been prodding people to gather info and take initiative. I haven't told anyone what to do or who to vote for. The closest I've come to controlling people is asking people questions about the intent behind their actions. I want others to be active and think critically. Maybe I have different standards for what's controlling but I don't think that is.
- I am mafia because I am too aggressive. - Defense: I don't think there is such a thing unless you're pushing for a hard lynch or something else not in support of town, like having tunnel vision, ignoring valid points, or actively misrepresenting the target. From my perspective, I am going after the people with the most red flags. All of the counter arguments against me stem from things like 'that could be innocent'. It's true, just about nothing in this game can be proven beyond a doubt. Most things by themselves could be a coincidence. When the coincidences pile up, the story changes...

Here's the thing. If I think you're scum, I'll hunt you until I know you're not scum. No innocent until proven guilty stuff. I know there is at least one scum out there. If you look like the most likely to be that scum, I'll assume you're scum because sitting around all 'I don't know who scum is' isn't helping anyone.

Even when I'm not sure, I often push the person to the point that they think I am serious. Many people, in this game in particular, don't respond well to light prods. In fact a lot of the time they don't respond much at all. Pushing people is the only way to gather info aside from a straight vote fest. That leaves little in the way of clues. This whole game seems to be in a bit of a rut where people are just waiting for something to happen. I want to break as many out of that as I can.

That should cover all of the bases.[DOUBLEPOST=1409012655][/DOUBLEPOST]Should go without saying, but I'll not be defending myself again today.

It's time you guys got some info on other people, who aren't already dying.

 

Alright, thank you Makaze, that answers some of my questions.

Now, I also want to see where Jiku, Hayabusa, and Bite the Dust have been through all this. Also, even some of the people who have "posted" more often than those three haven't actually contributed in terms of content. People like @TwilightBlader , @Zazu , and @TheWorldThatNeverWas . Can you three please come and tell me what you're thinking about all this stuff that's happening?

 

Adding a vote of confidence here: TheWorldThatNeverWas has been acting strangely. When they contribute it seems to be out of a sense of obligation to do something with no game plan.

Wasn't able to answer my prods about their reasoning for the Day 1 actions and ended up not contributing much in the end.

Worth looking into.