Mafia [Mafia] Miami Haze ~ GAME OVER (MAFIA WINS)

It was just the thing that stuck out to me and i didn't have anything to say regarding the rest of your post because i thought those were valid points.

 

Feel free to jump in, guys.

What?, please reply next time you view the thread. I'd like to hear your thoughts on The Fuk? and default's actions.[DOUBLEPOST=1408934918][/DOUBLEPOST]

Wait... You're saying you agree with me?

Didn't expect that. One misunderstanding after another today.

 

People have been voting and unvoting all day. Just because there was a soft lynch when I voted, that doesn't mean it was going to stay that way for 24 hours. Without my vote, there were 6 others. 2 people could have easily had a change of heart and unvoted.

Just because I don't do things the way you do, that doesn't mean my style is less effective than yours. Your way was to start attacking right away and mine was to start the first day passively. You and I both lynched a town member, so I would say that both of our styles have achieved the exact same result. Both of our styles could help shield from suspicion, so don't try to say that my passive approach is more suspicious than your loud approach. Each one is a effective form of subterfuge.

I don't understand why this is an issue. I had plenty of quotes to use that backed up my argument. Why would I throw a bullshit one in there too? Throw out that mistake and the post still reads the same way. Throw out the quotations entirely and my entire argument still holds weight. It's not like I only listed some quotes and said "See?"

I have never used the multi-quote feature.

 

i never said i agreed with you, just that your arguments are worth taking into consideration. regardless, i'm waiting to see how this all plays out in the meantime.

 

Must work on finishing an important coding project tonight; I am very happy to see The Fuk?'s answer to my question came in a very active way, however. Expect an analysis of our dead James Bond character much later tonight or tomorrow after 2 EST when I am back home, alongside a further suspect analysis. Since I never did drop the vote on The Fuk? these recent developments are certainly worth following closely under my own interest, to say the least. That being said, I will put off resuming a case on anybody here until I see the others pop out in a bit.[DOUBLEPOST=1408937526][/DOUBLEPOST]Re: The title
Someone play this on a bong-shaped ocarina please.

 

Please try to find your highest reads and go for them. You've become a distraction to multiple people twice already with your going-nowhere posts. If you want to help, do more than watch and agree. Having the appearance of activity does nothing; it's as bad as not posting at all but worse because self-preservation distract people.

You would throw a bullshit one in there to get me lynched faster. Like I said earlier, it makes a lot of sense for you to kill someone unexpected and target the obvious ones in the day time. You have good incentive to do this as scum. By the same reasoning that you would have killed me as soon as possible with a night kill, you would also want to kill me as soon as possible during the day. Fake quotes that make me look bad qualify as ways to get me lynched faster.

But I digress. You're dodging the point. What you wanted to portray is obvious. You wanted to portray me as hyper-controlling. The problem is you were dishonest in doing so. You outright lied when you had every reason to tell the truth. Town have no incentive to be dishonest. At best, you are trying to trick your teammates into voting for scum instead of being honest with them. That doesn't make sense even if you are 100% sure I am mafia.

Reasons to do it as mafia? Check.
Reasons to do it as town? No.
Did you do it intentionally? Yes.

Hell, you also have incentive to react exactly you are right now if you are called out on the false quote.

Long story short,

##Vote: The Fuk?

 

We could always follow Makaze's lead for another day and if he is wrong again we vote him off lol.

 

That's a horrible strategy. If I'm town, I can be wrong and you may end up killing two towns. If I'm mafia, you end up killing a town for sure.

If you want to kill The Fuk?, do it because you see the points.

I don't want people to tunnel on my target(s). Even if I'm right, letting the other mafia members idle is not smart.

On to my other reads.

Looking back, default is my secondary suspicion. He has only voted twice, once for me as a reaction to the Random Voting Stage, and once for Reno because they were inactive, a case they dropped when the replacement took over. They got no info from either case but dropped them all the same. Henceforth he has waffled back and forth between agreeing with one person and another. That's bad because as I've said already, sitting back and letting things unfold is completely unhelpful. At best, it... Wait, no. There is no upside. You don't get info. You don't influence the flow of the game. All you do is avoid drawing negative attention. At worst, it allows you to be led as a sheep to the slaughter, forcing you to agree with the cases of others.

On top of that, Trigger was on their case and even voted for them. If they are mafia, this fact puts some pieces together to help explain why Trigger was killed instead of Beau or I. While Trigger was suspicious and not a huge threat, he was on to mafia. I might be alive partly because I defended default to Marushi, while Trigger was more logical as the game went on and had sided with me once already.

 

Jokes exist ya know.

 

Ah. In the absence of more serious content they can be mistaken for the serious content.

 

This logic of yours can be go the other way too. All I'm doing is bringing attention to myself by calling you out during the day. I'm making a bold move by going after you the same way you made a bold move by going after Beau with very little evidence that they were Mafia. Everything you're saying about me, I could say the exact same thing about you. I keep saying this and I'll say it again. There are two ways to play this. The loud way and the quiet way. Look at the way you handled him. You analyzed every single detail about their personality, they barely put a fight and you got people to turn against him. You went after a weak link. That can look like a "scum" move the same way you say me going after a strong link is a "scum" move.

On an unrelated note. I find it funny that you keep calling the Mafia "scum". If I didn't think otherwise, I'd say you were a townie through and through. Almost like you'll do whatever it takes. Add any little detail to make us think you're not with the Mafia.

I don't need to "try" to portray you as hyper-controlling. Anyone who pays attention to the way you have been acting can see it immediately. All I was doing was connection the dots. Not everyone sees your aggressive ways as suspicious, but I do. This "false quote" argument doesn't hold as much weight as you think it does. If this "false quote" said something completely different than what you had already been saying, maybe I could see your point. But all it did was give a summary of your behavior. It was an honest mistake. You turned this entire thing around on me because of a spelling error and a minor editing mistake.

Makaze's guess got a town member killed, so you could always give someone else a chance.

 

If it were a summary you should have presented it as such.

There is no conceivable bonus to mudslinging if you are town. You're trying to make it seem like it doesn't matter instead of fessing up to the mistake. You're not trying to improve on the behavior. You're trying to protect yourself.

Scum is a general term for anyone not aligned with town. Includes the Third Party Role, too. I also use the words 'anti-town' instead of 'pro-mafia'.[DOUBLEPOST=1408941879][/DOUBLEPOST]Forgot: One part of that wasn't clear. Who did you mean when you said I went after the weak link? Assuming you meant Beau, that was a coincidence. I prefer hard tells to gut tells as a rule. He made a mistake that looked pretty damn hard to me. If anyone had made that mistake, I'd have gone after them the same way. If anyone else had had much of a tell at all besides Beau, I'd have gone for them at the same time and he probably wouldn't have dropped out.

Besides the logic side, I went out of my way to get him to contribute and clear his name and gave him advice on how to help town. It didn't work, but I tried.

 

So, @Calxiyn , since you ask what I think about why Trigger might have been lynched: In my opinion, I would say it might be safe to assume that you won't find much worth suspicion in his posts, because if he HAD said something even slightly suspicious towards a member of the Mafia, there are plenty of other people who have contributed nothing whatsoever. Why would they lynch someone with a paper trail? However, this does not mean you WON'T find anything, so if you'd like to look through his posts, then by all means, do so. But really, my thoughts are that they probably took him out due to the potential threat as opposed to one he already made.

@Kaldur'ahm , don't worry, I had no idea how the bulletproof vest worked either. If that makes you an idiot, you're not alone. :)

And finally, @The Fuk? : I agree with a lot of the stuff you say, even regarding the misspelled name. It's confused me over and over again; sometimes names just are confusing, and even a repeated misspelling could just be a misspelling.

As for your case against Makaze, I had been feeling the exact same way, but was worried about saying so due to my earlier statements about fearing that I'm reading suspicious behavior into him because I want to find him suspicious. I'm also afraid that if I'm wrong, this could hurt the town, and if I'm right, he'll go out of his way to turn me into the suspect, much as he is doing with you. However, his response to your questions only serves to further confirm my own suspicions regarding his alignment. He seems to be twisting the things you say and latching on to the smallest things to try and turn them into items of suspicious intent.

However, one thing I caught among your list of quotes, one thing that I'm now going to go through the thread in search of to quote him properly, is this:

Emphasis on the very last line: "Sitting back and watching is not a luxury YOU HAVE as a town." To quote another two quotes of Makaze's:

Even despite this tell, the whole situation with Beau disturbs me. Makaze pushed and pushed and pushed that we lynch Beau, basing his entire case on general personality quirks and word choice. He then pushed and pushed and pushed that we do it quickly, saying

Makaze, It wasn't until everyone else stepped off your wagon that you suddenly changed your mind and backed off Beau, switching immediately to Krowley, pushing for people to vote for him quickly, citing the deadline. Even after the true deadline had been pointed out (which, sidenote, is just as telling a mistake as misspelling a name, imo) you did not even continue to plead your case, only stating, when asked repeatedly, that he was "most suspicious" in your opinion, and even remained mostly silent for the majority of the day. This, along with many other tells that I shan't list here, because:

After typing the above, I read your response to the Fuk? and this bothers me even more!

First off, you cannot truly know his intentions, and yet you state them as if they are confirmed fact. He said that after a lot of editing, cutting and pasting, and copying things as he has never used the multi-quote option (something that I've never used either, I've only ever hit "reply"), that one got accidentally left in as a strange mash-up. This makes sense. Look at the sentence structure: "Don't sit back and watching?" Even I took notice of that sentence and realized it didn't fit. If he really did intentionally fabricate a quote to make you look bad, I really think he would have phrased it better. As it is, it makes much more sense as a typo then it does as a boldfaced lie.

As for incentive to react in a certain way, you're reaction to his accusation rings of Mafia itself. He presented a case against you. So you latch onto the one thing that is easily explained as a mistake (just like you did with Beau, btw), you then use that one thing as a basis for a case against him in an attempt to turn the tables against your accuser (something that you yourself stated as suspicious behavior earlier in the thread) and you applied motives to his accusations that may or may not be there. Example:
"You're dodging the point. What you wanted to portray is obvious. You wanted to portray me as hyper-controlling."
YOU are dodging the point. His list of quotes and the context therein portrays you not as hyper-controlling at all, but rather, he calls attention to how often and how specifically you make sure we know you're town. It's like watching old episodes of Columbo, when the murderer makes sure that three or four people take note of the time they see him, to corroborate his pre-arranged alibi. The point being that the safest way to avoid suspicion is by painting yourself to look like a concerned townie or even a detective. Columbo (clarification: a character detective in an old series, played by Peter Falk) often would find the murderer who made such an effort even more suspicious by how hard he tried to look good, up to the point where it really begins to look unnatural. His post, excepting the one misquote, has nothing to do with your propensity for seeming too controlling. In fact, the mere context of the rest of the post makes the misquote even MORE obviously a typo; if the rest of the post draws attention to your suspicious behavior regarding how you choose to paint yourself, and the one stand-alone quote portrays you as hyper-controlling, it would not have been "slipped in" with the rest. It would have been placed in a position that truly DID call your leadership into question.

In conclusion, you are now officially the most suspicious person in the game, so despite my fear that this is all a huge mistake:

Vote: Makaze[DOUBLEPOST=1408942370][/DOUBLEPOST]DOUBLE POST! Above, I quote Makaze as having said something, hit enter, and then speak for myself. However, editing caused my to accidentally place the "myself" part as a piece of his quote. That is a mistake.

 

People saying "y'all" or "you all" in reference to a group does not automatically make someone the other group. That's like saying someone who's mafia that refers "in public" to the mafia as "you all" is automatically not mafia.[DOUBLEPOST=1408942599][/DOUBLEPOST]I meant to say that comment from the perspective of the town at the beginning of it, but I did not. It makes my "that's like saying..." statement look odd.

it should have been more like:
People saying "y'all" or "you all" in reference to the town does not automatically make someone a mafiosi or a 3rd party. That's like saying someone who's mafia that refers "in public" to the mafia as "you all" is automatically not mafia.

 

Glad I wasn't the only one who was worried about Makaze,

Vote: Makaze.

 

Can you please shorten your thoughts and split up your paragraphs better in the future?

On why lynch someone with a paper trail - to get rid of a threat. In particular, if mafia wanted to get rid of me they would need to get rid of people who might side with me, especially someone who has already gotten close to mafia. The less allies I have, the easier it will be to paint me badly.

The paper trail case is weak by itself. Just as I can use a paper trail as evidence, you can decry it.

It ends up in a loop like this:

'They wouldn't do it because they know that I expect it.'
'They would do it because they know that I know that they know I expect it.'
'They wouldn't do it because they know that I know that they know that I know that they know that I expect it.'

You made this exact same point earlier regarding my expectations in various scenarios.

These lines of reasoning aren't used by themselves because of the loop. They're known as WIFOM arguments.

I might have made that kill as a balance of probability if I were mafia.

For that reason, my case on default exists as a culmination of a few factors—lack of contribution, backing off of cases without reason, waffling, and the paper trail—instead of just the one.

The Fuk? was on my short list for pressuring today on the basis of their vote for Krowley by itself. Like with default, my case on him is based on a lot of small red flags things that add up quickly. Each of them has a counter (except for lying about quotes), but those counters begin to lose credibility as the red flags grow. Here's the list:

• Voted Krowley:
  • After a soft lynch was reached, showing
  • With almost a full day left before deadline, showing lack of consideration for other options
  • Without so much as a one line comment, showing lack of conviction in the lynch
• Misspelled the name consistently, showing lack of conviction in the lynch
• Cased me on the basis that I am 'too town'
• Intentionally presented a fake quote, showing desire to paint someone as worse than they are, dishonesty
• Refused to admit wrongdoing, showing high priority of self-preservation
• Has contributed nothing in the way of actually investigating

I might have been only slightly leaning scum without the lying, but he was well on his way to being a top read before he posted today.

Lying is a scummy thing to do. He did it and has not apologized for it or tried to make it better. There is nothing petty about my case.

On the quotes: I speak that way about all alignments when explaining what makes sense from their perspective, in particular with the phrase 'as {ALIGNMENT}'.

You seem to be doing the opposite of what you set out to do: you're skimming the pro-town points and cherry picking the things that support your suspicion.

I'm not sure where the idea that I was set on a Beau lynch came from. I pressed it, but above all I wanted other cases to crop up. I wanted info on other people. I wanted people to hunt. Hell, a lot of my pressuring on Beau specifically used my lynch target to rally people to hunt, warning them that if they didn't dig up more info the info I was using would remain the strongest case.

It was in fact the strongest case. That's all there was to it.

My message to TheWorldThatNeverWas decidedly not pressuring them to vote for Beau. I pushed them to make a case on the people they were already targeting. I outright pressed them to do it quickly, if they wished to overthrow the Beau lynch. Not because I wanted Beau dead, but because a counter-lynch would need all the time it could get to gain momentum over the Beau case.

This is some really backward logic. Listing tells is what you should be doing. Preferably concisely, true, but let me restate what you're saying back to you: "I have proof that you're mafia, but I don't feel like presenting it." What?

Uh. There is no other option. He did not copy and paste that message. He copy and pasted the others. He did intentionally fabricate it. There is no debate there. Whether he typo'd or not has no effect on the honesty of what he did. Let me say that again so you don't misunderstand: A typo in a fake post does not make it a real post.

Given how uncareful he was in naming Krowley multiple times over, I don't think an appeal to 'he would be more careful' is going to cut it. Why would he be careful in one part of the post but not another?

That's not true. The Fuk? explicitly wished to portray me as hyper-controlling as the primary basis of his case. Hence the fake quote, in which he claimed I said: "Lynch the people I say you should lynch." Not to mention his reply to the post you quoted, in which he definitively makes clear that that is the message he wanted to send. Not much room for interpretation.

I didn't dodge the point about me being too town. I addressed it head-on in my first response to him. Simply put, it's ridiculous to go after someone for being 'too town'. Aside from the sheer paradox of it, there are several reasons why someone might want to appear extremely town that you guys have completely missed.

If I am a BPV town, I have incentive to draw night kills to myself to save other townies.

If I don't think anyone else is a good target, I can make myself a target to draw the Watcher's attention and thereby save myself from the mafia by getting them to dodge the Watcher and/or catch them if they shoot me anyway.

But no, my being so much a townie means I'm clearly anti-town. That kind of reasoning is not only impossible to counter (because even more pro-town actions only strengthen it), it implies that being suspicious or anti-town is a better way to play town!

 

Kay, let's see if I can, for once, keep this short. *crosses fingers*

Then yesterday, why did you continuously state that What?'s suspicions weren't worthy of note, and Beau was the only viable suspect?

As did you.

• You keep stating that his misquote was a deliberate malicious lie, without any proper evidence of it being so. At all.
  Which, may I point out, is exactly what you are doing by refusing to admit you could be wrong about his lie/mistake.

No, what IS petty about your case is this absolute refusal to see that maybe, possibly, there's a chance that it might have been an unfortunate mistake.

And my point was that the exact same manner of speaking was what made you insist that Beau was "all but confirmed scum."

I'm not going to try to refute this until I understand your meaning. To what pro-town points are you referring; and also, cherry picking the things that support a suspicion is exactly what I'm accusing you of in regards to the misquote.

And yet, every time another suspect was brought up, you refused to join the investigation and told us (or at least, me) that we ought to give up on our suspects until we had more of a following.

This statement is so blatantly blind that I find it laughable. Every single thing you found suspicious about Beau was EASILY explained away, and you even made several statements yourself amounting to the fact that you were planning to get more info regarding the Mafia's patterns in wagoning than you ever hoped to get in Beau's death. While meanwhile, every other case that was brought up, you disregarded with hardly even a liine telling why. Even when expressly asked, you didn't provide much reasoning beyond a lack of feeling on your part.

If that was your intent, you really phrased it ill. As it is, every time another case was brought up, your response, regardless of intent, SEEMED to be saying "You don't have the votes. If you're not going to vote for someone who has votes, nno one will by lynched."

Kinda hard to provide more information when I am constantly told to talk less. However, let me try my best:

• You cherry-picked ONE word in Beau's post and his reaction to it as the basis for your case.
• You made the exact same mistake in word choice later.
• You pushed for Beau's hard-lynch, twice, stating that you were impatient and that you saw no point in waiting, as no new information would come to light.
• You now say that in trying to get a hard lynch, you were really trying to GET the new info you professed would not come.
• Every time new info was brought up, you ignored it; stating that it would never take off because Beau had the votes.
• As soon as Beau lost the votes, you jumped on Krowley with little to no explanation for it.
• You now say that you suspect the Fuk? for voting Krowley.
• You cherry-pick ONE PHRASE in the Fuk?'s post as the cincher for your case.
• You cite his refusal to admit to a lie that has not been proven a lie as proof that he is Mafia.
• You refuse to admit that his statement could have been a mistake.
• And finally, you have disregarded the one thing I specifically asked you to do, and that was to defend your own innocence by actually talking about yourself, instead of only ever trying to push blame or suspicion on your accuser.

I hope I have made this concise.

Obviously, you misunderstood everything I was saying. You saying "HE DID IT ON PURPOSE" does not make it true. Besides, I never said it was a real post. I said it was a mistake that should not have been.

On the contrary, his reply to the post I quoted stated that he didn't NEED to try and make you seem hyper-controlling; your own posts were doing a good job of that. The context makes his intent clear. You are right, there is not much room for interpretation.

You seem to misunderstand: every player will try to seem like a townie. You are calling it ridiculous to think that there's a chance you're really a mafia who's overdoing it? I agree, such a suspicion is hardly worth basing a case on, but noting it as an addendum to the rest of the case we're beginning to build is perfectly reasonable.

In fact, I'm gonna go so far as to say you have been appearing anti-town from the beginning, as far as content in your posts. Your phraseology and word choice are fine most of the time, but the real problem is the content, as summed up in my bulleted list.

And that is why I believe you are Mafia. Now can you try to defend yourself based on yourself, instead of accusing your accuser?

And also, addressing everyone else, does this make sense? Please, tell me if you think I'm wrong! If this is all a mistake and Makaze's town, I don't want my part to have been based on misunderstandings and false leads. But most of you aren't posting, or when you post, you only post jokes or say "I agree." WHY do you agree? Why do you DISagree? Who would you vote for instead? Do you think I'M suspicious? Please, if you don't post, this will become the Makaze/What?/Marushi/the Fuk? show. And I hate looking dumb, so I'd rather be told so before I get in too much deeper...

 

Huh, didn't expect Trigger to be the first mafia kill, thought for sure they'd go for Kaze.

I'm not gonna hop on the Kaze bandwagon, he's too analytical and thoughtful that I think the chances of him being Mafia are very very slim, no one would be this vocal if they weren't trying to help, imo. It's generally the quieter people you have to watch out for, sitting around letting townies basically sign their own deaths with their big speaches that throw people off, i'd eat my hat if Kaze was mafia.

Not voting just yet, no one really raises any flags, any more so than yesterday at least. The day is young, let's allow some others to chat.

 

Welp, that's me over and done with.
Sentenced to death, bong clenched and held close to my innocent townie heart.
I tried my best to help the town in the short time I had.
Good luck, fellas. ;_;

​

 

you're the only person to complain so far, and i've gone for my highest reads already. it's not my problem you decided to nitpick a my comment. honestly.