Is it just me or do I actually have a point?

I've noticed that very often in books and movies that include action and battle the female characters are either damsels in distress or unnaturally strong, male butt kicking action heroines! I don't think that I've seen too many women that are just in between, not completely helpless, but still not quite as strong as a man.
Examples:
Damsel in Distress: Kairi especially in the first Kh, the woman in Indiana Jones 2, Elizabet Swann in PotC1 (she works in both categories...)
Super strong chicks: Tomb Raider, Arya from Eragon, Elizabeth in PotC3, Tifa etc.

Please, explain your point of view, don't spam!

 

You are sooo right.

But what do you mean by mid-way? Is there a mid-way at all?
Coz even with guys there is no mid-way; they are either weak or strong.

If you think about it Kairi does do some fighting in kh2 so shes not too weak.
But you do have a point.
Sometimes I wish the girls would make a stand. They should make more films where the main characters are heroines.

 

In my post I said that the mid-way would be not completely helpless, but still a bit weaker than a male-hero. So that would mean that both the woman and man could depend on each other for help, and not be overly independent. And I meant Kairi in the first one, she is so helpless in that! But your right, she's starting to get a bit tougher now (yay)! And I agree, we need more better female leads in movies, games, books, etc!!!!!

 

Well, I really wouldn't put Elizabeth Swann in the D&D catagory, as she is quite the fighter when need be, even in PotC:tCotBP. Sure, she was kidnapped, however, she still fought her way out, and it makes sense for her to be super strong in Potc:AWE, because by then, she'd spent a hell of a long time in the field, er out in the sea and among pirates, and therefore had enough experience to do what she needed to do. I say that she is one of the few females who are in "mid-way".

However, you do have Fiona, from Shrek . . . er, that's like all I can think of at the moment. Once I remember more, I'll be back. xDD

 

Well, have you seen many inbetween males either?

And I think you overestimate some of your examples. Elizabeth Swann is by no means 'unnaturally strong'. She simply had a strong personality, but I hardly believe she was someone who took down armies of people in the third film. The only person who is qualified to be called an unnaturally strong woman in that film was Calypso.

It's natural that both men and women fall under one or the other because heroes and heroines have to be given significant stances to fit their significant roles. But this itself doesn't attest true in all cases because there are *many* males and females who are main characters but still fit inbetween.

Justin Long's character Matt Ferrel in Die Hard 4 was a classic inbetween character. He was a major character that pushed the plot, but his only skill was his skills with a computer. He was not physically strong by any means and was quite a coward in the face of danger. And this is a male character we're speaking about.

Aerith from FFVII wasn't unnaturally strong by any means, in fact, she wasn't an offensive fighter to begin with. A main character with a clerical position on the team, and far from being a damsel in distress, she helped Cloud and the others with their mission before meeting her end at the tip of Sephiroth's blade. Her death however wasn't a product of a damsel suffering at the hands of her captor; she more or less sacrificed herself. To willingly give one's life is a type of power that's stronger than most.

Now for some Social Psychology.

Your point that female characters often tend to be one or the other is an example of Confirmation Bias and the Availability Heuristic. Because a female being unnaturally strong or a damsel in distress is such a prominent and vivid persona, you overestimate the frequency in which this happens, or in other words: you see it happen a few times, then think it happens all the time. Coupling this is the Confirmation Bias, where you then only tend to notice events or circumstances that affirm your observation, and ignore or don't bother to research instances that lessen or disprove your idea.

From what I can tell and recall, women *do* tend to be damsels in distress more often than men, but there is about an equal occurrence of men and women being both the all-powerful heroes and heroines, as well as being inbetween.

 

Not so much in books.

You quite often get boy-girl partnerships. Admittedly most of them rely more on mental ability that muscle, but still...

You also forget The Incredibles. (God, I would feel so stupid referencing that if we were not on a kh forum) They have a partnership.

The books Sabriel, Lirael and Abhorsen have warrior women that have male partners. (They generally have less brute strength, but the whole control of the dead thing sort of balances it out)

The wind on fire trillogy, by William Nicholson has a boy-girl partnership.

 

Okay, I think that this was just my inner feminist noticing something strange... Good that I got a guy's point of view on this!

 

The stereotype exists, certainly. I will not deny that. But it does occur less frequently than you may think. It depends on what you define "Damsal in distress" and "kick ass warrior" as.

Would you consider Ocarina of Time Zelda to be normal? She does both jobs, after all.

 

I don't know who she is...:sweatdrop: So I can't really answer that. By unnaturally strong I meant a woman as strong, or maybe even stronger than a man, not like a woman with Goddess-like strength... I have a habit of saying things in extremities...

 

What does 'stronger than a man' mean? I can't help but notice you've repeatedly compared men and women in such a way that suggests men are always supposed to be stronger.

 

Correct. That's because people know females like to be rescued by their loved ones or not. Usually they are more fragile than men also unless in extreme training.

 

Yes, I've also noticed there is no medium...the people who are usually in-between end up being "KICK ASS WARRIOR AMAZONS" anyway...=/

Its a stereotype many writers follow. You can't say it doesnt make for a good story. There are definately in-between female characters out there though. They usually aren't the main characters T~T but they are there.

Like calypso from POTC series. She wasn't like Keira Knightley (she wasnt a fighter at all) but she wasnt a damsel in distress and played an important role in the 3rd movie.

 

well, yes this happens a lot, a girl with an amazing power of light....blah, gets kidnapped, has a "strong" heart , but isnt really a fighter

almost all wimen fall under two categories

the mystical i wanna help , and have a strong heart(wich doesnt fight at all)

and the rough one , who is super strong

examples of the first mentioned

collete
Aerith
Zelda(sheik doesnt count because he didnt really fight)
peach
kairi(yeah at the end she tried to fight, but it wasnt an all out battle)
kagome(she use arrows, but she only uses them a couple of times, and inuyasha has to save her)

now examples of the second

tifa
hrist(valkirie profile)
lara croft
KOS-MOS

and there are some cases of the middle ground

shion(xenosaga, the main character)
Alicia(valkirie profile 2)
silmeria
lenneth
zelda(wind waker)

 

Well, men are physically stronger than women, so it's quite unrealistic that a woman could win a man in fair combat, like in pretty much every fighting scene in Lara Croft... She weighs like maybe a hundred pounds, and is supposed to beat up men twice her size in two punches? :gunwtf:

Edit: To the guy/gall who thought I was starting an argument in a earlier post: I was answering questions from previous posts, not trying to start an argument. I try avoiding fights, I debate, but push me too far... It can get very ugly, trust me!

 

I'm glad that you see there are exceptions for this logic.

Anyways, I agree partially with your statement. However, I guess the background behind the character is what determines most of it.

 

Hey! I remember you saying that Avril Lavigne won a fight against a guy! Something to do with hockey... But then again, Avril is... well Avril!

Am I just imagining things?

 

I would have to disagree that men -are- stronger than women all the time. That's a generalization and I've seen some pretty tough females in my martial arts classes I've taken and also some females I grew up around that were tough as nails. I've also known a lot of guys that are wusses and if a female knows what she's doing she can take one of them with enough ease. Combat is something also that it doesn't necessarily matter how strong someone is as much as it matters that you know how to use what you've got to the best of your ability and you hope your opponent is taken off guard, so I don't really tend to measure people's strengths that way. In a fight, a man or a woman could win based on how good he or she is and if they are good enough to get off what they need to in order to get critical points that are on either gender.

Now, if a man is in the same physical condition as a woman, the man is highly more likely to be stronger than the female. A female also has the chance of being more dexterous than a man in the same physical health condition. Also, some of the females mentioned use melee weapons and really, if they are using a suitable weapon, a woman can be just as deadly as a man any day if she's experienced. In fencing and sword training I've had, I've met women who were very adept at it and beat men in competitions.

So, on a 'regular' rule I could say men are normally stronger than women but there are those women who are tough competitors and work out and those women probably can stand up to a man who isn't doing the same regimen as she is doing. I can accept if a man works behind a desk all the time and is not exercising and a woman who body builds have an arm wrestling competition and she wins, she's obviously the stronger person. Genetics can also play a part in strength and some men just come from weak ancestors where as a female may come from a line of strong men and women.

As for females that are bent to either being wussy docile things that need protection and hit like they couldn't kill a mosquito with that blow and also women that are super strong and knocking around men ridiculously, yeah I could say that there are plenty of books, movies and shows that depict that and there aren't enough regular females out there. However, most of the women who are very strong have reasons to be so such as some supernatural power or something and this is also granted to men to do the same sorts of things.

Tifa wasn't a female that I saw as being that outlandish when considering the entire group of FF VII characters and what they could do. Aerith wasn't that unfeasible either for the type of character she was in the game.

However, in FF IX when Garnet (a teenager) can't hit as well as a 8 year old or however old Eiko (another female) is, then I kind of think the wussy factor is overdone. Also Kairi, Peach are good examples. For the middle ground though, characters like Sarah Conner in Terminator 2 seemed not so far-fetched to me because she worked out so much, or another person would be Dana Scully in X-files, who seemed pretty normal.

I do agree that females like Lara Croft having this super strength seems rather outlandish since she's a regular female that is 100 lbs and well most of it is in her boobs, but then again so is the whole series of games.

 

I think your right. I've never seen a girl thats strong,and yet still can't do some stuff in books.

 

Uh, Peach can do tons of things.

She can tennis, golf, basketball, soccor, kart race, get kidnapped and save Mario.

Just saying.

There are normal women, but they slip under your detection. If you count Hermione as a women, there's one. If you count what's-her-name in Eragon (That leader of the resistance) then that is two.

If you look, you will find.

 

Don't forget agent 99 from Get Smart.