In this video: a guy who doesn't get women at all

I swear I've been having this same thought and failing to put it into words.

 

See, I don't see it that way. When I see an attractive woman and feel the need to point it out (even though I never do because I know I'll be shamed for it), it's because I want to say, "I don't know anything about you right now, but I can tell that you put a fair amount of effort into your appearance and because I admire that I quality, I would like to get to know you better if the opportunity ever arises." Obviously, this is a lot more innocent than an actual catcaller's thought process of, "There's a person who looks good. I should put xir in xis place by pointing that out." I've probably been brainwashed by the patriarchy to see it that way, but in my view it's really not much different from seeing a passing stranger wearing a shirt that has to do with a game I like and saying, "Hey, nice shirt," and then xir saying, "Yeah, I love [the game in question]!" and then both of us eventually forgetting each others' existence.

Really, it shouldn't even be something to deal with. There should be rules and etiquette surrounding it so that it can happen without having to offend anyone. The only reason I can think of why it should stop entirely is that it's so hard to tell who wants it and who doesn't at a glance. So yeah, I guess we're in agreement, at least on this point.

 

Some girls just wake up pretty really, they' re not doing anything special about it.

There already are. Put flowers around it, crack a joke, make it an actual conversation and just bow out if she' s not interested. Basically don' t be a drooling alphamoron about it, I' m not sure it requires lengthy explanations.

 

She's probably not putting that effort into her appearance for you. Just remember that. While yes, your intent is good, the action is still not benefiting the idea that people of any sexual identity ought to be able to just go about their daily lives without undesired attention based solely on appearance. I get what you mean, I do, because I was in that situation before, but you have to think from their perspective more. And a gamer shirt? Very much different; gaming is an activity that one pursues. Being of a sex is not.

 

I can't accept that. Maybe some people can't look good even with effort, but I find it hard to believe that anybody can look good without at least a little bit of effort.

At that point it's just a compliment, though. As I understand it, he thing that sets a catcall apart from a regular compliment is that there's no conversation or flowery language leading up to it.

That goes without saying. Putting effort into one's appearance for the sake of the opinions of total strangers is downright ridiculous. People try to look good for themselves, not for others. All I'm saying is that a person who has the luxury to be able to put any amount of effort into xis appearance is, from my optimistic way of seeing things, very likely to put even more effort into aspects of xis life that actually matter, and that's a very admirable quality.

I feel the quote, "We judge ourselves by the intent of our actions and others by the consequences of their actions," applies here. A catcaller is not doing anything inherently wrong. The only thing that makes xis actions inappropriate is the potential consequence of making someone anywhere from mildly to extremely uncomfortable, which isn't worth the possible payoff of making that person's day by paying xir a well deserved compliment.

Why do you think I never actually do it? It's impossible for me to think from xis perspective at all, so it's much safer to simply not say anything.

Yes, but looking good is an activity that one pursues. What I meant was that saying, more or less, "Hey, I acknowledge your taste in video games and I am gladdened see that you openly express that taste," is no different from saying, "I see that you have put effort into making yourself look presentable and would like to extend my acknowledgement. Know that without even trying, you have brightened somebody's day." This would probably manifest as, "Nice make-up," followed by a "high five" motion, which would probably be left hanging because most people would be preoccupied with trying to ignore the freak who's been complimenting people and offering them high fives for the past seven hours.

 

I guess you either haven' t met them or have extremely sophisticated standards. I for instance am often complimented on my clothes. I have no interest whatsoever in fashion, buy my clothes so blindingly fast I barely try them, if at all, no really, I put zero effort in my looks. I just happen to know what I do or don' t want as soon as I see it. I wash, I comb, I shave, but that' s about it, I hardly think I deserve a medal for this. I can also eat whatever the **** I want without fear of gaining weight, it' s rarer for women but it' s not unheard of. While I don' t exactly picture myself as a walking wet dream, apparently some people do.

I' ve met many girls who are the same. Yes, they still have to wash and comb and shave, but once that' s out of the way they' re gorgeous as is.

Yeah ? One of those is spam. Gee I wonder why not everybody likes that. Question is, if you do believe making an effort to embellish things is laudable, then why the hell would you dress your compliment in a way that spits in the face of poetry ?

 

I had two thirsty ratchet females following me all around the movie theater lobby as I was getting my tickets and popcorn for Interstellar on saturday night and I don't see anyone advocating for me and the copious amounts of harassment I have to deal with when trying to see a movie so this entire thread is invalid until I see some strides made towards equality.

 

It totally sucks that people ignore the fact that this shit happens to guys too. Like I said, had it happen to me before, though not on the level of your incident, and the idea that we should be flattered is ridiculous.

 

Basic hygiene is still effort, though. Believe or not, some people have so little time or care to devote to even the most important things that they don't even do that. Anything that a person does for purely cosmetic value is effort d

And all of that is a sign that you care about your appearance by your own standards and are willing to put in as much or as little effort as is necessary to meet those standards.

Obviously one is preferable to the other, but both have their merits. One is better, but takes a lot of time and isn't feasible to show approval to a passing stranger while the other is faster and more direct but has none of the benefits of the other, such making sure the subject of the compliment is okay with being complimented on xis appearance.

That's why I use "people" instead of "women" and "xhe/xir/xis/xirself" instead of any specifically gendered pronouns for discussions like this. As I see it, it's a lower level of the problem where sometimes people say things like, "Men can't be sexually harassed because they like that sort of thing," or, "Rape doesn't count if a woman does it to a man because an erection is the same thing as consent," which I think is even more unsettling because it's considered sound logic some legal systems.

Still, like I said, it's not wrong, just inappropriate. People who can't read minds shouldn't do it to anyone.

 

Honestly it just shouldn't be done at all by either gender. If you want to approach someone do it an a respectful way, walk up and introduce yourself. That's my thought process at least.

 

Very much my thought process as well, in fact.

I had an epiphany at dinner about this whole thing:

If you see someone with the shirt/hat/jacket/backpack of a game/book/movie/TV series/band that you like, you can go up to them and say something like "Hey, you like Kingdom Hearts? Me too! I love how nobody dies and everyone's hair is a lethal weapon and Sora has the voice of a nearly 30 year old man!" You're discussing things you enjoy about that series, pertaining to things specific to that series, be it game design, storytelling, character design, music, writing, shippings, whatever. That conversation can reveal aspects of your own personality and interests, as well as the person's whom you're talking to. You're able to build a relationship, be it as acquaintances, friends, or whatever else, due to something that reveals personal information besides each other's appearance.

If you see someone whom you find attractive, you can go up to them and say "Hey, you're pretty" and I'm not sure where you're going to go from there based solely on the fact that you found that person attractive. Maybe you can discuss makeup, or fashion, or hair, or something along those lines, but the point is, people who catcall typically aren't trying to actually conversate. Even if you have no ill intentions whatsoever: point is, you made your first impression of a person by letting them know that this person is attractive, rather than examining anything about their personality or interests.

 

They both make some good points, the woman much more than man. I felt like the dude was going somewhere at some points, but kind of shot himself in the foot by just saying things to get a reaction out of the one woman.

My problem with the ORIGINAL original video is that it showcased both "cat-callers" and people who genuinely want to greet her/compliment her, but lumped it all up together as cat-calling. That's just really irresponsible imo. Also, I don't think showing sexual attraction to someone should be equated to objectifying them. Just because I find you sexy doesn't also mean that I don't know you're a person with complex emotions.

While a lot of women may legitimately hate cat-calling because they feel like they're in danger (which is completely valid), part of me can't help but think that at least a few women only complain about cat-calling because it's coming from men they find unattractive. I mean, let's be honest. How many women in this thread would honestly feel uncomfortable from a cat-call by someone who was a 10/10?

This. ****ing this. So much.

???????

I'm confused. You acknowledging compliments and internalizing them is a result of you having a lack of respect for yourself? Self-respect is all about being able to love yourself, and being able to take compliments instead of deflecting them away due to a lack of self-esteem.

I'm not too sure about that. If someone were to catcall and say "Hey, you're sexy" to someone walking by, I'm pretty sure the subtext isn't "Hey, you're sexy and that's all you have to offer." To say that would be quite the jump.

 

I would feel uncomfortable. I just don't like a lot of attention my way. I don't know how to react to compliments. I don't know if I'd be able to distinguish between a guy hitting on me or a guy just generally paying me a compliment. Since I've grown up in a culture that objectifies and sexualizes the female body. I don't know if the guy is being genuine or if he has an ulterior motive. And I have been conditioned from a young age to think the worst.

And what should happen if I don't acknowledge their 'compliment'? Am I simply called a '*****'? Or are they going to follow me to my destination? Are they going to drag me into a secluded alleyway? Do I need to make my keys into mini-Wolverine claws? Do I need to get my pepper spray ready? Should I get my phone out and call my girlfriend? Should I duck into the nearest store until they lose interest? What happens if they follow me into the store? Can I ask someone working there to call the police? The police are going to ask me what I'm wearing. Is the neck of my t-shirt too wide/too deep? Is it too snug fitting? Are my jeans too tight? Is it because my hair's in a ponytail? What if I need to press charges? The judge is going to make me say what I was wearing to encourage their behavior. What if, in the event of an assault, the case is thrown out because I'd be damaging their reputations because they're the stars of the college football team? What if I'm pressured to not press charges because of their reputations?

It might seem paranoid but these are the sort of thoughts that go through a woman's head when she's walking. Or at the least the thoughts that go through my head.

 

Jesus Christ ! That grandpa is one of the creepiest things I' ve ever seen. xD