I'm starting this here cause this can only end well

Aiight so lemme get this straight...

you're in a thread that's on a "controversial" topic that's more focused on well, calling staff members out. And you're sitting there, seeing Llave post like, his opinion on the subject and you become more focused on his offhand comment where he referred to someone as an indian?

I mean, I get your attempt at virtue here. You've got a group of people who were mislabeled for centuries because someone was bad at math. But is this really the time to police people on that particular thing.

I mean, if we wanna really get dirty here, putting all "native americans" as a collective is bad, as each tribe is really it's own nation. We really should be looking at it more along the lines of the way Europeans classify each and every part "italian" or "german" or "scottish" or "irish" or "polish" or "sheeping ****ing welshmen" but ya know.

Anywho. My subscribers have told me that we do this with Africans as well. Ya know, we aren't referring to people by each tribe. That's ridiculous, isn't it? I mean we're gonna be correctly labeling everyone because labels are super ****ing important. I wanna know what's up with that.

Anyway going back most people don't even refer to "native americans" as "indians" anymore unless we're specifically talking about THE STEREOTYPE. Ya know, the thing people want to get out of people's minds cause of how culturally appropriating it is. It's more of the idea of the indian. The turns of phrase, of the indian. It's kind of like what people do with gypsies. Oh wait I'm sorry that's romani. But ya know khajiit are just stereotypical romani and we love those guys cause cats are awesome.

I've lost my train of thought. Uh. Right. Are we gonna call out every tom, dick, and harry who calls someone an indian? We've got a whole generation of people who still refer to asians as orientals for ****ssake.

I think we're going to be okay.

 

I think you missed the point though - like obviously I think the comment itself is problematic - but for some reason when I talked to a staff member they basically said they had other stuff to do. I understand it’s the first priority to probably sort out the issues called out in said thread, but it really shows that to me the staff members aren’t really working together???

Because you’d think one staff member could deal with the comment in the time being while the staff member I talked to who said it wasn’t a priority for them could continue with their thread response. So yeah, I think it kinda shows we’re not gonna be okay Lmao

Edit: to clean this up a little bit cause I’m on my phone - the response I got to asking a staff member to deal with the comment was what I’m concerned about. Because apparently multi-tasking wasn’t an option, and asking someone else to deal with it while they continued what they were doing (if they really couldn’t do both, people are busy so it’s understandable to focus on one thing) somehow isn’t an option? Where are the other staff members?

 

I think the reason the indian comment isn't there priority though is because people were publicly called out in a thread and they're particularly defensive about it right now. So someone making a "chief and indian" comment was really not the worst thing in the thread though?

 

I get that, but does then dismissing a member with concerns to a staff member and then being brushed off really help in stopping the call out thread? Like the whole point of the call out thread from what I can see is that certain members don’t think the staff are doing their job. If you’re worried about someone seeing you as unable to do your job, why would you then not do it?

There are enough staff members to enforce the “regular” site rules and at the same time deal with abnormalities like I would consider the callout thread, and I think that if regular members are being ignored in favour of dealing with the call out thread that only proves what is being said in the call out thread.

More on that, if I was a new member who was witnessing all this and I got that sort of response, I definitely wouldn’t want to stick around. I’ve been here long enough to know that certain staff members really are doing their best, but we’re in no place rn to be accepting outside company, so to speak.

 

I mean, you're not wrong with the staff stuff, sure. I'm not defending staff activity at all.

I still don't know why you're offended by someone using a figure of speech though. Like, enough to bring it up to staff in the first place.

 

It was less offended and more like “yikes is that against the rules”? Cause I didn’t think it was, but if it is that’s something I’d like to know etc.

And when the response I got was “well yeah but I got to deal with other stuff” that’s where I got “mad”.

No ill will to Llave, he just accidentally became an example when I asked a question. Now I realize it may have not looked that way, and like I was attacking him for what he said rather then quoting him for context to what the staff member had said in response to.

 

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If liking cats over dogs is wrong I don’t want to be right Arch

 

Doggos are bae......


That is my contribution

The end

 

I agree but why can’t CATS and DOGS be bae together



I was going to post a picture of my dog too but I don’t have any pictures of my dog. I guess that exposes me and where my aligence lies

Edit:
It only took me 30 minutes but don’t shade me

 

Cal, yours is exactly the sort of toxicity that Ben was referring to in his thread. You keep mentioning the poor newbies who will be put off the site because no staff care to micromanage every perceived slip. What do you think is the most likely scenario here?

A) An old member says the word 'Indian' to refer to a native American and isn't called out on it. A new member is put off by staff inaction.

B) A new member says the word 'Indian' to refer to a native American and they are called out on it. They are put off the site because they have to tread carefully whenever they ****ing post.

 

Like I said, I wasn’t trying to call out Llave. It was about the staff member and their reply to me. If I just went after Llave and it wasn’t related at all I would feel you, but the response I got was directly related to the issues that B was bringing up with the staff thread in the feedback section. At the end of the day it isn’t about him, it’s the response that was in response to what he said.

It could have easily been something else that moderators usually take care of and if the response was the same, it’d be as concerned.

In terms of the newbie thing, if a newbie on my discord says something like that, we don’t “go after” them. We just message them and say “hey maybe don’t say that” and explain why they shouldn’t. Even if we’re dealing with another problem, I have 5 moderators and it would be quick to deal with. If one of my staff members gave the response I got when a member came to them about a concern, I wouldn’t be happy with them at all. And this isn’t any shade but our server is way busier then KHV and we’re able to keep up with stuff like this.

I know it’s different but I hate seeing a problem be created out of something that’s an easy fix, ie “I’m a little busy right now but I’ll pass it onto another moderator!”

 

Apparently you don't hate it enough not to beat the dead horse so hard its family feels it three generations down.

 

I really don't think that this is the sort of thing that B and Ben were talking about though. You are currently on the moral crusade that Ben complained about (correct me if I'm wrong, @jafar !). They (and I) want an active community with active staff members who don't stroke their own egos by getting on their high horse and picking up on every slight issue. I guess it was a non-issue to the staff member you went to and I agree with whoever that staff member was. I'm sorry if that concerns you but imo using the word 'Indian' neither warrants reprimand/comment nor does it break any rules. KHV is obviously a bit more lax than your discord channel.

 

But doesn’t really have anything to do with morals, because it’s not the actual phrase that’s the point. If the staff member replied that it didn’t break the rules I would be fine with that and agree with you.

But how the response read to me was “yeah it breaks the rules but it’s not important enough for me”, I think it’s easy to see how that’s problematic. Like I said it was “to detract from from the big staff issue by getting side tracked by talking about racism”

But if it’s not racism and therefore not against the rules, then there’d be nothing to talk about outside of saying to “Nah Cal that’s not against the rules don’t worry about it”

 

You didn’t consider for a moment that with all of this stuff going on that the staff member in question potentially misspoke? It’s not that hard to believe. With all the recent stuff going on within the past few days, this is the last thing they need to be worrying about, due to it’s trivial nature.

 

That’s fair enough, but equally since the staff are under a microscope right now, I’d also think being careful and making things as clear and straight forward as possible would help. But I really appreciate the open dialogue now, I think it’s super important.

 

Just popping by to drop my two cents on the matter at hand:

This is a phrase he used to describe a problem, kind of like how people use "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree."

Is it potentially outdated by using the word "Indian?" Maybe.

Should we be getting into SUCH a fit over it? Probably not. If someone is specifically offended by it because it's a derogatory term for them or people they know then sure, we can argue whether it should be changed, but it's JUST a phrase he used for the sake of discussion. The term may be outdated, but a HUGE part of what makes terms like that offensive is the context, and I'm almost certain Llave didn't even think about insulting someone with his specific word choice when he typed up that post.


Now excuse me while I go back to Breath of the Wild~~

 

I agree, I mean I don’t think he personally meant any harm from it, which is why I was more focused on the response I got from the staff. If they said exactly what you just did and “it’s not against the rules don’t worry about it Cal” that’d be perfect. But this whole interaction has been a little confusing lol.