How would Kingdom Hearts be if Disney wasn't incorporated?

I've thought about this a few times because the more I play the games and progress, the more I feel engaged in the overall story and less I care about all of the Disney subplots. This especially with Chain of Memories where by the time I got to Atlantica, I was sick and tired beyond imagine of having to deal with such boring subplots about things we already did in the first game. My favorite worlds have always been Kingdom Hearts-created ones and bosses the same. I would most likely love this game even if Disney wasn't there. Maybe even more so.

I'm sure the game's success may have been different without Disney and that Disney was the reason I purchased the game, but I really only care about the overall plot nowadays. What about you guys?

 

I think that the Kingdom Hearts original worlds should outnumber the Disney ones at this point, because there the most crucial parts of the games actually unfold, but the Disney world gems that are there do make some of the games even better. The Nightmare Before Christmas is always awesome, or Halloween Town I guess. Then I enjoyed the Pirates of the Caribbean world. Actually, Kingdom Hearts II handled most, if not all, of the Disney worlds really well, to the point where they don't seem like subplots anymore and one can actually get immersed in them. But all the games other than that kind of fall short, honestly. Kingdom Hearts did really well with Neverland, though. But then again crucial parts of the game happened there as well. Maybe not crucial, but some great Riku/Sora scenes.

 

Honestly, it was never Disney that drew me into the series. Even when I was a kid it was more the original characters and world settings that I liked. I think the game would still have seen relevant success as a lot of fans of SE's other series would've been drawn towards it, but at the same time with Disney you have the best of both.

As Dredica said, though, I feel that KHII did a good job with the Disney worlds - they actually had the main plot with the Organization amalgamate into the separate stories of each world with the members interfering, as well as other villains. This comes across better than KH & CoM where they felt very detached outside the stories in Traverse Town, Hollow Bastion, etc.

But yes tl;dr more original worlds to balance things out more pls.

 

I actually loved the Disney worlds. I felt like, although our protagonists weren't directly connected to those worlds, they gained some self-knowledge about themselves or their friends.
If there were no Disney worlds, but many original worlds, it would be awesome to see, but I feel like the characters introduced in the original worlds may not be as memorable as those we see in Disney worlds. I mean I still remember Hayner, Pence, and Olette, but that's because they were special to Roxas.
I would love to see more original worlds, but can't go without the Disney ones either :D

 

without Disney Kingdom Hearts would just be a badly written Final Fantasy

 

Well, it depends. When our protagonists are actively involved and forming friendships with the Disney characters, that's great. When the characters are standing idly by and watching reenactments of Disney movies, those moments suck, and those moments become more and more common as the series goes on. It didn't ever happen in KHI, but in every subsequent core game (KHII, BbS, 3D), half the cutscene time in Disney worlds is spent watching a badly-reproduced scene from a movie that we've all seen a hundred times. Our saving grace is that each world gets a second or third visit, so there's a chance for other interactions that don't just follow the movie.

Also, Disney bosses are SO much more fun than any other kind! But those look like they're going down the drain too. I was so enraged that both Clu and Frollo went unfought. It was maddening. KHIII will probably be most similar to KHII in pretty much every respect, which means we'll be having multiple, lengthy visits to the Disney worlds, with some following of the movie plot followed by some stuff that's more integrated into the game's plot. You know, hopefully.

As for the main topic, the original concept of Kingdom Hearts would never have happened if not for the idea to contact Disney for a crossover. Sora's design owes a lot of inspiration to Disney, I think if Disney wasn't incorporated no one ever would have had the idea for Kingdom Hearts. The Disney worlds, to me, are an infinitely more engaging version of the filler material and sidequests you'd normally get in an RPG. The novelty of exploring familiar worlds and meeting familiar characters never wears off for me.

At the same time, yes, the best scenes in recent games are the ones where the only characters present are Kingdom Hearts originals. :/ It's kind of disappointing. But again, I think KHIII will put the series back on its feet - Donald and Goofy returning to their major supporting role (as characters, not just in a gameplay sense) and Disney worlds that are more engaging than what we got in BbS and 3D. I play Kingdom Hearts because it says Disney on the box, and I haven't lost that loyalty to the Disney half just because there have been a few stumbles in its representation.

 

I ask this myself a lot actually! and I agree with the ones who say that most of Disney worlds are subplots disconnected from the main story... if you think about it, you could replace every Disney world with an original one, with a story that fits the KH main plot, and the game would still be there. In some games, I try to pass the Disney world the fastest I can, to get back to the KH plot, thinking that Donald, Goofy and Mickey are the only ones who fits in the story...
BUT if we take the Disney thing off, would it be the same game? I don't think so... The Disney atmosphere has gotten into everything, in the characters attitudes, in some story plot elements, even in dark worlds (when I first saw Hollow Bastion's castle, I though it was from some Disney movie I haven't seen). The different look of every world because it imitates the movie is something I like a lot too (and a lot more if Sora's appearence changes with it)
And one last thing: I think is the Disney worlds (and FF characters too!) that made this game unique. A lot of us have seen Disney movies when kids, some of them left a mark on us (Mufassa's death, for example), and to be able to revive a lot of moments from our childhoods, in a way a little bit more mature, is something no other game can imitate.

 

Another thing about Disney bosses being the most fun: It's extremely cathartic to beat the crap out of Disney villains who've tormented you since childhood! :D You can't do that in any other game. There's so little fighting in other Disney games.

Another thought: People rush through the Disney worlds in an effort to get back to the main plot, but a lot MORE people would try to rush through the subquests if they WEREN'T Disney worlds. ^^ It's not like the elimination of Disney would eliminate the filler material. There'd still be a whole boatload of places to stop before getting back to the story. It'd still be an RPG at heart, after all. So having Disney material as the filler makes it better. Although.... it would be kind of fascinating to visit an alternate universe and see what the games would look like if every world was original. That'd be something to think about, at least.

 

Not... really
at all
If all the worlds were original, they'd have the freedom to tell whatever story they want, and make all the parts connected

 

Yes, they could do that, but they would not. They wouldn't be remotely connected. They'd be a load of useless sidequests with nothing to do with the actual story. That's just how RPGs work. You can't honestly believe that if there was no Disney, then every little bit of gameplay would have some big unifying theme? No, no, people would be rushing through all the peripheral worlds to get to the plot-critical parts same as they do now.

What would the worlds be if they were all original? Well, they'd be: desert level, jungle level, undersea level..... all with no bearing on the plot. Having them all in Disney movie form makes them WAY better than normal filler.

If you think that wouldn't happen, if everything in the games would be connected, then the answer to the question "How would Kingdom Hearts be if Disney wasn't incorporated?" is "Way too short". ^^ 'Cause I can't help but notice that there's not a whole lot of gameplay in those parts of KH that are plot critical. Lots of talkin'. All the interconnected parts, they're already IN the game, and if that was all there was, there'd be far too few hours of gameplay.

 

They would have bearing on the plot because it wouldn't be sidetracked by random Disney stuff, and wouldn't be forced to fit inside the constraints of the Disney regulations. For one thing, no, that's not how RPGs work. They give you a bunch of stuff related to the story and world at hand. They don't just go "woop, time for the Desert level! Let's have some unrelated thing happen before we get back to the actual story!"
Kingdom Hearts wouldn't just give as Desert level, Jungle level, etc, either. We'd get stuff more like Hollow Bastion. Well designed stuff with its own back story.
I'm just speaking from experience with Squaresoft, really.
Don't see how you can think it;d be shorter, either. It's not like having to pay way less for expensive voice actors and Disney licenses suddenly means the game has to be way shorter, if anything it'd probably be a bit longer

 

Getting sidetracked is an RPG staple. Everything is for gaining items and experience (with a dash of world-building) until those certain checkpoints that are plot-relevant. Those points are clearly outlined in KH: they're the series-original worlds. Every RPG has those shifts between 'plot area' and 'sidequest area'.They're more seamlessly integrated into the game world as a whole, sure, but they're seldom any more plot-related than the Disney worlds are. Towns and dungeons, you know. That's what the Disney worlds are. The equivalent of a normal RPG's towns and dungeons. You know how KH shows a world map, and first you play a plot-relevant world, followed by an assortment of Disney worlds you can choose to play in any order before moving on to the next segment of the main plot? Sounds like a standard RPG floor-plan to me.

As for your final thought, Square doesn't pay licenses. From a legal and financial standpoint it's a Disney game, for which Square does the heavy lifting, so the licenses (with the exception of Tarzan) are a non-issue and Disney foots the bill for voice acting, which is certainly not a problem, Disney being Disney and all. I doubt this alternate-universe version of KH we're dealing with would be cheaper for Square, or make the game longer. There would be expenses toward designing new worlds from scratch, brainstorming character concepts, writing scenarios. There's still a lot of creativity involved in translating the Disney films to game form, but it's because they have so many pre-made environments and characters to work with that the games can be as big as they are. The games would be much shorter and, like you said yourself, what would they be then but a decade-spanning Final Fantasy story?

(I hope I'm not causing any offense, I'm enjoying this debate if you are)

 

Disney worlds aren't towns though. And Disney isn't footing the bill here, they still need to pay individual owners of a lot of assets, never mind, as I said, pay the voice actors.
Disney worlds are not towns. Disney worlds have about 20-40 minutes of cutscenes each. They are self contained stories, sometimes with hints of the main story thrown in. Take out the Disney elements and those stories now focus on a cohesive whole, there's no random Disney story that needs to be fitted in. Again, the Disney worlds arne't side quests, they're not optional, and very much a part of the run times, it's the Disney element that makes them unrelated. It's like the key points in Final Fantasy X. The Mi'hen Highroad might have a separate story from Luca or Zanarkand, but they still focus on the same characters, with the same overarching story. The side quests are things you go out of your way to do. They rarely have many cutscenes or voice acted bits, they're extras for a reason.
It's really not 'easier' to use the premade stuff of a Disney world, if anything it's harder, it involves exacting research, and often scenes haev to be animated and designed in completely different ways to match the movies. They also have to be redesigned to be cohesive with other worlds. It's an insane balancing act
It'd definitely be cheaper. Don't have to pay big name voice actors, you can just go with the usual anime stuff. You don't have to be tied down to making eveyr Dsiney world 'equal' either, so a world could have way more or less story and gameplay. Don't have to research Disney movies and design them perfectly, but cohesively with the other worlds, you can just do original stuff. Not licensing This is Halloween and the like probably helps a bit too

 

I don't care about the Disney Worlds at all.
My favourite worlds are Kingdom Hearts originals and I don't think the disney plots are necessary.
But I just can't imagine Kingdom Hearts without Donald, Goofy and King Mickey.
Especially Mickey is such an inspirable and respectful character. The 3 of them are really important for Kingdom Hearts' story (especially Mickey).

 

Seeing as back in the day, SquareSoft was killing it with RPGs, The idea of exploring different worlds that were completely alien to the player (Not Disney) would probably work just as well, if not even better. Imagine the suspense that would bubble up inside a player when they ride in the gummi ship to the new world that they have no idea what it would be next. With the Disney focus though, you already know what to expect: a world based around a Disney film. If the gameplay would be exactly the same as it is now, I wouldn't care.
But that would mean taking out Hundred Acre Wood and Halloween Town, so maybe I care just a litle bit...

 

I'd imagine Kingdom Hearts would've been much darker without Disney incorporated. Besides, the overall plot barley have any Disney concept as well as characters (I'd say six), and there would'nt have been any significant changes if Disney were removed. Mickey, Donald, Goofy, Yen cid, and Merlin would've been easily replace by another Final Fantasy character or a new introduced character.

 

I'd imagine Donald and Goofy would have ended up being Riku and Kairi instead

 

I discovered the series when I was 10.

I was a crazy fan of the FF series thinking it were the best games ever made and I was a maniac of Disney movies.

When I learned about the existence of the game, you don't realaize how happy I was, like i was dreaming; my 2 favorites entertainement series combined in one??


Disney drew me in!
And while the disney were somehow badly executed in the first game, they managed to pull it off mostly well in the second game.

Especially when the organization memebers gets in the second visits![DOUBLEPOST=1407858961][/DOUBLEPOST]I agree with zebra. Without Disney, it would just like another final fantasy fanservice game.

 

Without Disney, it would basically be...another Final Fantasy game.

It's hard to imagine what KH would be without them. About 80% of the game is on Disney related things whether it came to plot, worlds, characters, and much more. MAYBE instead of Disney worlds, it would have FF worlds or key locations? That would actually sound very interesting, but on the other hand, have much darker and mature tone to the game.

 

Ahhh I would have freaking loved that ! RIkkuuuuuuuu *___*

I agree with your messages, sometimes we could have passed some of the World [ Atlantica omg please drown and let us play xD ].

But I actually love the game the way it is. A new hero starting a journey, landing on different worlds that appears to be worlds we know, moreover worlds from our childhood. That is what makes the game fantastic. Disney and Final Fantasy are the Best choices ever.
Also I am someone that loves cross-overs [ I could quote the Clamp in their Manga XXX holic/Tsubasa/X/Sakura Card Captor ect... ]. And from these cross-overs, as we saw, they created new stories, original adventures and plots, surprises and nostalgia ! Everything we dream about in a game.

I don't think Kingdom Hearts without Disney would have been as great as it is now, it would have been good for sure but different about that nostalgia stuff and surprises. I wouldn't remove it from the game [ Except for Atlantica and that annoyiiiing Swimming gameplay ].