How is this Holy again?

Oh then just use this website instead.
Very good source I must say.
http://www.biblegateway.com/

I would appreciate it if you gave me some verses to confirm this love.

So why should it be used as a belief system if it is so inaccurate?

Because it is one of the most well known religions in the western world. Now if we lived in the eastern part of the world then we might be talking about the Muslim religion instead.

You mean like God?
I just want to say Stardust that I was a Christian for many years of my life, so after much thought I think I have a picture developed. Religion is to make people feel good, not to make sense.
Thats my picture. lol

 

Was it Mark Twain that said "It's not the parts of the Bible I don't understand that scare me, it's the parts that I do."?
And then it was Thomas Jefferson that said that "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
Yes, it was written a long time ago; yes, some of this was probably not meant to be taken literally (some was, though), and may not have seemed so terrible in the time this was written; yes, there are messages like "Love thy neighbor" and the 4-10 of the Ten Commandments, which though common sense are good lessons. However, that doesn't change the fact that the Bible also has its share of grotesque content as well as attempts to justify atrocities done in God's name. (I'll use the Crusades as an example here.)
Christianity is one of the most popular religions worldwide and is hailed by followers as being the best, teaching such amazing morals, yadda yadda yadda, when in reality I think it's one of the ugliest system of beliefs in existence.
I agree that when so much of a book has to be explained away with "don't take it literally", it shouldn't develop such a massive following. I also agree with JedininjaZC that religion wasn't meant to make sense. It's understandable why some people want to believe in a higher power, but I don't understand those that take holy books like the Bible and treat each word like fact.
It's just... Eh, I don't know. I feel like I'm going in circles.

 

the bible/ testament are very old books, but some people just dont understand that, i mean beliefs were very different back then, racism was a major part of life and it ranked people like that.

 

Ok, no offense, but the parts about slavery I can understand, because look at the historical context - pre-Roman to post-Roman period. Slavery was not just a fact of life, it was a necessity. They didn't have complex machinery to do the work in fields, for instance. To try to ban slavery was like trying to turn the entire world upside down and expect it to keep functioning. Besides, most of the regs about it were quite just.

Not to say I condone it, of course. Just that I understand it. And yes, the rest of it just freaks me out. I've always said: The Bible (particularly the Old Testament, as Judaism and Islam are also based on it) has caused more pain, bloodshed, and persecution than any other idea in history.

Of course, I also believe that the Bible is one of the biggest propaganda efforts in recorded history. It was written first, by, as has been said, over 40 authors. Then, in the middle ages, it was edited, pruned, translated, and debated on by the clergy of one of the (then) most corrupt institutions in history, while they tried to complete their political stranglehold on Europe. After that, it was hand copied and hand translated for hundreds of years, allowing gods-only-know how many errors to creep in. If that's not a propaganda effort, I don't know what is.

We already do. Just not as much. :D

 

I highly agree with everything you have said.

Well as an ex-Christian I bet I could shed some light on that.
You see Christians believe that the bible is the word of God; if they follow God's word then they guess that they could become a much wiser person.
Also churches sometimes shove certain details of the bible down their guest’s throats (it is highly effective on children, or on teenagers who have attended a certain church their whole life that they don’t second guess their preachers).

 

This was written such a long time ago, and I really do hope people have enough sense to not follow every single word the bible says D:

Im a Christian, but Im not a serious follower....I belive there is a god, but it can be anything really to me, and I dont follow everything the bible says.

 

You've misinterpreted these quotes from The Bible you posted so bad it's not even funny...

I'm a Christian, I wish I could clarify this for you but I don't know the proper way to explain because:

1. I'm no good at settling Debates...

2. I'm no good at explaining things...

But I can tell you that my friend Xakota may be able to explain if you ask him.

 

Tell me how the bold text can be interpretted in a good way.

 

When it comes to the Bible, Christians believe that it was God-inspired. True, God didn't pick up a pen and right it all down for himself, he worked through people here on Earth. They did his will and wrote what they felt He insprired them to write.

I'm a devoted Christian; I have been my whole life. Have I read through the entire Bible? No, I haven't. But there are several things you need to realize before you judge an entire religion or God based on some nasty quotes:

1. Times HAVE changed. God has not, I'll be the first to admit that. God is perfect in nature, and sometimes it doesn't make sense why He would tell His people to do such terrible things (have slaves, etc). But in the society they lived in, those things were viewed in a different way. It's almost like the way we view chursing today. Some people view it as okay, other's don't. That's the analogy I have come up with, anyway. Feel free to disagree.

2. God had his people, the Isrealites attack other people. It's a historical fact. But I don't find this so hard to believe; if you're one of the only nations to believe and follow one God, of course you're going to have enemies. Sometimes in order to protect yourselves, there needs to be war.

3. Sometimes God told His people to do certain things to show them how powerful He is, and how He keeps His promises and protects them.

4. God, as the Creator of all things and all people, has the right to do whatever He pleases. So when it comes to others worshipping other gods, I'd say He has the right to be angry. Let me explain it this way. Your father is watching over you, protecting you and leading you, and then you wander astray and give your life to somebody else. Wouldn't a caring father be upset? All throughout the Bible, God is portrayed as a father.

5. Jesus. Jesus was the son of God, but he was also God. Think of it as a three-leafed clover. It's one clover, but three seperate parts. (For the sake of time, I won't go into the Holy Spirit).

Matthew 5:30
(Seriously?!)
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away.
It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

I don't see what's so terrible about this one, actually. He's using the analagy to point out just how serious sin is.

Matthew 10:34-35
(Jesus Christ you are scary!)
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household."

I can see how this can be easily misinterpreted, so I'll do my best to explain how I see it. Now, I'm no pastor, just remember that. Jesus knew that his teachings would seperate the world. Not just the world, but it would turn families against each other. That isn't peaceful at all; it's a real struggle to have disagreements within a family. I believe that is what he meant, in a nutshell.

I wish I had more time and knowledge to help you guys out. Please understand I'm not criticizing anyone, saying "Oh, you're all stupid, this is what it really means." That isn't my attitude at all. I really want to help you guys. I'm open to questions, and if I can't answer them, I'll be honest and say so. I'm not gonna make up stuff so I don't look dumb. I'm not a perfect person, and I don't know nearly everything about Christianity and Judism.

Also, I request in advance that you try not to tear me apart for this. Again, I'm not trying to be offensive, and I hope none of you took it that way.

 

Ok. So the times have changed, so certain quotes are not relevant to current society. And some of them aren't meant to be taken literally. But if this is the case, then pretty much the whole book is either no longer relevant or non-literal. The bits that aren't, that are beneficial to moral standing, are basically summed up within a few short sentances and most people follow these basic moral guidelines, no matter what religion, if they even have one. If this is the case, what is the point of the bible? Or any 'sacred' text?


I'm not trying to rip you apart. It just makes me very sad to see so many people devoting big chunks of their lives to God, despite the fact he probably doesn't exist.

 

The Old Testiment was full of laws and sacrifices so that the people could pay for their sins, but the New Testimiment cancels it out for the most part. (I believe the 10 commandments are still excelent to follow). A lot of people find the Old Testiment offensive, which I can understand. Those were not good times. But the New Testiment is more relevant and applies to today.

You're right when you say some of the main moral points of the Bible (ex Love your neighbor as yourself) are followed by a lot of non-religious people. The point of the Bible or any other sacred text is for you to believe what they believe. The Bible tells you all about God and Jesus, who died for the sins of the world so that when we die we can spend eternity in Heaven. I don't know everything about other texts, so I can't really go in depth with those.

Don't worry about tearing me apart; I knew what I was getting into when I posted on this thread. And I really don't mind the questions.

As for God not existing, that's a matter of your own faith. Personally, I don't see how there isn't a God for a few reasons:

A. Creation. How'd we get here? And why is everything so structured? If the Earth was any further or closer to the sun, we wouldn't be able to live. I don't believe that's just a coincidence.

B. Purpose. This life is so short, and there just has to be something more than this. We can do all sorts of good things here, but what good does it do after we die?

I could go on for a while about why I believe God exists, but I'll leave it at that for now.

 

A: Simple, chance, and how the laws of the universe work. At a singularity (The Big Bang), the known laws of the universe break down. Time, gravity, etc., they all cease to function properly. So why not the law about every action having a reaction? Therefore, the universe could have existed without a creator.

Of course, the chance of something coming into existence or developing in a certain way is very small, but the way probability works is that cause and effect is multiplied. So if God was the one behind these things, than that would actually make him more improbable.

B: Why? Why does there have to be a point? And if there is, why do we always find God as a convenient answer? If a plane flys over a tribe who are on a remote island cut off from the world, odds are they cannot understand how this is possible and attribute it to a God of some sort. Humanity finds something it does not understand and 'God' is used for lack of any other answer or effort. The meaning of life (or lack thereof) is no different.


I could go on for a while about why I believe God does not exist, but I'll leave it at that for now.

 

A. The problem is, what caused the big bang? If you believe that theory, then surely something must have triggered the creation of the world. And what about the molecules out there that created the Earth? Where did they come from? Everything on this planet appears to organized; I don't believe that one day there was a big bang and all of it was created by chance.

I'm afraid I don't understand the bolded part above. Perhaps I'm just misreading it, but it really isn't clear to me what you're saying.

B. How can there not be a point? All through our lives, we try to find a reason to live. Is it just so we can be happy for a little while, then it's all over when we go to the grave? I don't believe that one bit. If you believe that there is a creator, then you also have to ask yourself "What does he want? Did He put us on this Earth for a reason?" As a Christian, I believe it is to tell others about Him and the sacrifice of Jesus. You can argue that point all you want, but I don't believe you can go through life without ever wondering if there was something more to everything we see.

People do use God as an answer a lot, but does that mean it's always incorrect?

 

I repeat. The big bang had no cause. It just happened. You may think that doesn't make sense. But to me, it makes more sense than 'God had no cause. He just is.'

Ok, think of it like this. If I roll a fair six sided die, I have a 1/6 chance of getting a six. If I roll it again, then there is a 1/36 chance of getting a six both times.

So if we take a random example figure of 'Universe appearing by chance' to be 1/(1 x 10^100), then the chance of it happening with God as the cause would make the 'Chance that God exists' to be 1/((1 x 10^100)^2), which is a much smaller chance.

Exactly: WE try to find a point. Human understanding of the universe has made massive progress, but that understanding is not shared by all individuals. And so an individual will wonder: Why am I here? And I say: 'It doesn't matter. Get on with your life and deal with it.'

If you believe the things I do in conjunction with the evidence, then yes.

 

How is "The Big Bang just happened" any different than "God just is"?

 

Because the big bang has a scientific and logical explanation for coming about by chance, which I have posted. God does not. I am not saying 'there is no way God cannot exist', I'm saying its extremely unlikely and it makes more sense to me for him not to, which is why I don't believe in him.

 

You're right, that doesn't make sense to me. Forgive me, but I can't form a valid arguement against something that just happened. I know it doesn't make sense that God always was, always is, and always will be. Because I'm only human, I can't fully understand it. But that is what I believe.

That explanation helps clear things up, thank you. But my question is, who comes up with these numbers? And also, just because something has a less-likely chance of happening does not limit the possibibly. It's like winning the lottery; chances are very slim, but still possible. So even by using your logic, there's a chance God made the universe and everything in it.

Perhaps I'm just more curious than you are. I see so much going on in this world, that I can't help but think that there has to be more to life. Also, just looking at nature gets me thinking. Especially the stars. They seem so far off, but we know that they're really large stars much bigger than our own sun. It makes a person feel really small, and it helps convince me that life here isn't all that's important. Maybe that doesn't seem like a good arguement, but that's the way I think of it.

 

I have my own personal (probably unprovable) theory about the Big Bang. It makes some assumptions, but it makes the most sense of anything I've ever heard.

What if there was a universe before this one existed? This universe (and I'm not going into it's origin, since that is beyond unprovable) could have ended in what some scientists call a "big squeeze", where gravity pulls all the matter in the universe back together. This recombination, then, could have exploded, either immediately or at some later time, causing our Big Bang.


Now, I know that theory is a bit simplistic, and, me not being a physicist, I have no real way to back it up, but it does seem to explain a few things. I doubt it can ever be proven, since another universe would probably be completely beyond our comprehension, and we would never be able to observe it.

 

I honestly like that theory better than the original.
In the way that God could have always existed, the universe could have always existed, by reforming itself over and over into a new universe.
Was it the Mayans that believed their god had destroyed the world by making the sun explode and rebuilt it and we're currently on the "fifth" Earth?
It's like that, but on a much larger scale.

 

This is true. If you truly believe the Bible to be the word of God or influenced by the word of God (though why would...), you can't just pick and mix. You can use the 'times have changed' argument, but then this applies to nearly everything in the Bible. Pre-marital sex was frowned upon because there was little or no effective contraception and in conditions of poverty people just couldn't afford an unwanted pregnancy. And with homosexuality not only was it seen as untraditional and wrong, but it was much more difficult and dangerous for gay couples to make love, whereas today there are ways around it.

Why is the 'times have changed' principle not applied to these two examples?


@childofturin: A plausable and possible theory, some scientists have mentioned it before. Even more unprovable than the God theory, but more plausable.