How Do Keychains‽

It was just like when Riku used Roxa's Keyblade, is not that it was HIS KEYBLADE, but when you are a Keyblade user you are able to take and use other people keyblade (like Aqua took Master Eraqus Keyblade).

Kingdom Key was never meant to Riku, as we saw in BBS that Ventus Had that Keyblade when Xeharnort split his heart, so Sora had that Keyblade because of Ventus.. maybe Kingdom Key is a "world Keyblade" and Riku could get it since he is from Destiny Islands aswell and Ventus used Kingdom Key at Destiny Island as well.

(so there are some Keyblades bound to some places, Like Mickey had to go to the Dark realm to pick Kingdom Key D).

And YET the Kingdom Key + Kingdom Key D , seems like they were born because of the X-blade , that's why the X-blade is made of both of them and that's why in order to close Kingdom Hearts you needed Kingom Key + Kingom Key D (from both sides) .. as they have half of the X-blade true power in itself...

I guess Kingom Key after crafted gone to Destiny Island, as well as Kingdom Key D gone to realm of darkness (maybe to that shore where everybody ends up?).. so If Riku used his ability as Keyblade user he could pick the Kingom Key for himself, but Ventus took it before so it was Ventus Keyblade that Riku would inherit, thus Sora would probably be able to use it as well since he has Ventus Heart.

Riku needed to have a medium to achiave the Keyblade , Sora probably didn't need one because he used Ventus.. or maybe he used his Wood sword.

 

I agree with what you said about Riku, but thing is, while you just need a strong heart to wield a Keyblade, the ability to summon/make your own and the aknowledgement from whatever collective counciousness the Keyblades may have come from the cerimony.
So as things were going for Sora, he really couldn't summon another one (Actually, he could because of Ven, but let's not go there), he was using Riku's because of some freak accident, and it was the only one he could use, regardless if his heart was strong enough to wield one. He wasn't aknoledged by the Keyblade yet.

Roxas actually ends up being pretty simple, he's Sora as far as any rules go, so when he tries to summon one KK comes to him naturally, like it does to Sora, except it's actually Ven's Keyblade with the KK Keychain that answers the call.

Yeah, we're probably wasting time trying some make sense out of it, but hey, it's better that way.

Ventus always wielded Wayward Wind. Flashbacks included. He never used a Keyblade on Destiny Islands either, they trained at the Keyblade Graveyard.

 

I was sure that he used Kingdom Key when Xehanort took his body in a blanket to Destiny Islands, maybe you are right.

 

Isn't it easier to assume that it's possible to learn how to wield a Keyblade without any sort of rite? How else do you explain Kairi's case, or Axel's?

Besides, how could Riku's ability have been passed on to Sora? He never actually abandoned it, like I said; he just forgot he had it. What's more, we have to assume that the "Keyblade Proficiency" feat somehow detached from Riku, floated through the ether, and decisively found its way to Sora. It stretches the limits of imagination to think the very ability to hold a certain sort of weapon is a living entity that has enough agency to, when abandoned by one person, move on specifically to another one. Otherwise, hell, our chosen one could've been Selphie.

Ok, it would really help my understanding both of this topic and of one I just started to get an answer to this, and I probably should've asked much sooner: Did Ventus ever have or use the Kingdom Key? You say he never used one on Destiny Islands, but did he ever come across it somewhere else? As I recall it wasn't one of his available blades in BbS, but I could be wrong.

Wait, so if Xehanort had it... Ohhhh marmalade. Oh man alive, I've GOT to plug that into the equation if it's correct...

 

Kairi accidentaly touched Aqua's keyblade, for some reason that counted as a cerimony. Axel got it from Yen Sid and proceded to learn how to summon it with the 3 fairies.

And I'm not counting it just as an ability that's lost, I mean the physical thing, his Keyblade was also lost. It wasn't abandoned by Riku, it abandoned Riku because it wanted.
There may be two dozens running around but that's it, they're finite. Xehanort for example, he has 1 keyblade, but soon will have 13 selves, they can't all summon the same keyblade at the same time, there's only one "Xehanort's Keyblade".

Also, Keyblades do that. All the time. Leon picked it up, swimgs it, judged not worthy, it goes back to Sora. Jack picked it, swimgs it, back to Sora.

He never had anything to do with KK.
Sorry for not being clear.

 

No way. Touching a Keyblade isn't a ceremony. Tons of people have touched a Keyblade without becoming wielders. Hell, almost every Organization member should've picked it up. Which they may yet, but that's not here. And why didn't Leon become one? No, the ritual aspect is too inconsistent.

But if it's a physical thing that can abandon its master, why didn't Sora get the Earthshaker? Riku never even saw the Kingdom Key before he saw it in Sora's hands; why is that the form it took? Why didn't it take that form for anyone else who was just learning the ropes?

You know how in A:TLA there were only like three lightningbenders and one metalbender, and in LoK they're running around everywhere? Maybe it's a practice that can be taught, but people have forgotten how it's done. Considering how many Keyblade wielders there used to be, perhaps it's an art that was once widespread, and there simply aren't enough people who remember the old ways to empower more people to use the Keyblade.

As far as there being only one Master Xehanort's Keyblade...well sure, unless he makes more. I mean, they can be forged. We know that two copies of one Keyblade can exist at once. Even if it's by some bizarre fluke from a freak of nature who defies all recorded in-universe laws, it can be done.

Sora's is the only one shown to have that property, and you've already been to the thread where I explain why I think it's so special. And either way, we're still talking about a physical object, not the very presence of mind to be able to summon and effectively wield that object in combat. A thought form can't be sentient, that is way too far over the heads of KH's target demographic.

No no, you were clear. Just wanted to be 100%. Ok, that doesn't blow any holes in my hypotheses, then. Man, "theories" is a much shorter word, but I know it's wrong. Can I just call them "hypos?"

 

Nomura said this, not me.
And yes, I agree that it's an asspull >_>

Earthshaker was Terra's keyblade, why would he get that?
And Kairi never saw her keyblade before Riku handed it to her either.
Their forms are probably not something you choose, they're what fits you.

Yeah, that's what I think too.

Two copies of one Keychain can exist at once, not of one Keyblade. You'd need to make a new one. Which probably isn't easy after you already got one.

 

Christ, I forgot he said that with his mouth hole. WHAT AN IDIOT. Why doesn't he just refuse to reveal the trade secrets, like a sensible writer? Furthermore why do I spend so much time analyzing the writing of a less-than-stellar writer That or lie, which he may have been. Wouldn't be the first time a writer lied to keep a secret.

At best, I think it's a little of both. Or it could be a combination of factors. We know that swords exist and can be forged, yet we don't bat an eyelash when in a fantasy setting a character summons from the ether a blade tailor-made to suit them; I see this as kind of the same thing, only with all Keyblades in existence having somewhat nebulous origins. Just...different kinds of nebulous. The ability itself, however, must have some consistent factor, something that all wielders have in common, and I just can't rationalize how it can be transferred wholly from one person to another. There are a lot of things I'll accept are just ambiguous, but that one irks me. I'd prefer to strike the idea than take it as inconsistent.

To put it another way, there are clearly aspects of it that are from the heart, and clearly others that are given form and agency of their own; we just seem to disagree on which bits are which.

How'd Roxas and Xion wield a Kingdom Key each, then? It was never stated that those are blank Keyblades with two of the same keychain attached. And Xion may have been a fake of a fake, but she could sure as hell kill stuff same as anyone else in the Sora bloodline, so her Keyblade can't be all that transient.

 

...I doubt he lied there.
It's too much like him to pull something like this.

Roxas used Ven's Keyblade with a KK Keychain until Sora started sleeping on CO, after that he started using Sora's. Xion used a replica made out of memories, or something along those lines, it probably didn't have all functions of a real one, and it depended on Roxas to even exist.

 

Nomura stated that the Kingdom Key that Roxas uses (at the same time as Sora's) is the Kingdom Key, so it is.

I believe that Nomura said that there were as many Keyblades as those that are worthy to wield one.

Which I think basically means there's one for anyone who strong enough to use one/infinite number of keyblades.

Also there is the need that the cerimony takes place.. as for why not "Captain Jack spearrow" or others didn't became Keyblade wielder ... is because the Keyblade didn't recongnized his heart as strong enough.

Also Eraqus probably made Terra and Aqua into Keyblade weilders , (So did Yen Sid with Mickey, Terra with Riku). There isn't no sign that the Keyblade was passed over and lost to the master , so he probably can pass that ability to as many people he wants and than see if they are capable or not of using..

Just Like Xion and Roxas had a Keyblade because Sora has, all organization XIII which have Xehanort dark heart will inherit the ability to use the keyblade , they probably will use different keychains only to make the game more fun, and to show their individual fighting style as well as we probably gain a new keychain (maybe theirs) after winning.

 

I know I just

*sigh*

I wish it had been a lie it's too dumb to be true

If this is confirmed in an interview or Ultimania somewhere, I'll buy it. Otherwise, what makes you so sure?

Which is weird, because isn't Roxas the one who lost it at one point? ...Oh wait, maybe they both did at different points in time. Idk as much as I liked Days it was really weird.

Well there you have it. Two of them existed at once; no keychains up my sleeves.

So what are we calling a ceremony for Sora? The ethereal equivalent of a homeless friend asking if he can room with you for a couple of months? Once again: Not buying it. The ceremony is something Nomura invented for Birth by Sleep, and if we take it as a deciding factor in one's ability to wield a Keyblade, it is a plot hole. So I choose to see it as merely a rite of passage: Clean, efficient, and most importantly, symbolic.

 

I'm saying this based on something Nomura said on a interview ages ago, it was along the lines of "Roxas's Keyblade and the thing that Sora once lost in Castle Oblivion are the same".
I can't find the interview right now but i'll edit this later. inb4imwrong

Xion and Roxas were playing tug-o-war with their powers, when one was too strong the other was so weak he couldn't call upon a Keyblade, there were a few periods Roxas even entered a coma.

He also summoned two Kingdom Keys before turning them into O&O, and we know one of those was Ven's.

Remember, only Masters can do the Ceremony, so Jack's not getting a Keyblade based on that scene no matter what.
Or so I hope >_>

Well, obviously, but I'm saying it's not the same base Keyblade.
If it is that contradicts what he said about Xehanort.

Oh, I had forgotten about that line.
Does that mean unless someone loses their Keyblade like Riku to Sora they can't get another one?

Actually, if what he said is to be taken literally, it's the opossite, they're finite.
As in, you can't Dual-wield without rendering someone else unable to use the Keyblade.

 

I'm asking by what ceremony Sora gained his ability. If this is a prerequisite, when did it happen in his case? And if only Masters can perform the ceremony, for that matter, how did Terra give Riku the ability? He wasn't a Master!

Or being really weird and breaking all the rules, evidently. :L

In that case I think Nomura's telling us how it should be. He's giving us the rules Ansem would have written down, as an example.

 

Sora is the sole exception, he didn't need a ceremony.
And Terra was made a Master by Xehanort on Radiant Garden.

I guess that's it, after all, Mickey does have two Keyblades for himself since KH1, and that breaks the "As many keyblades as individuals" rule.

 

Sora gained his keyblade because of Ven, who's part of him now. The keyblade probably went to him because of that, and then the keyblade became attached to Sora.

 

We're assuming an exception before it's proven itself. Sora's an anomaly in a lot of ways, but no signs point to that one.

So are we assuming when they awaken Ventus in KHIII, Sora's gonna lose the Keyblade? That'll bite.

 

Edit:

Looks like I was wrong about Roxas after all.Called it >_>

 

F$%& NOMURA WHY DO YOU DO THIS

WHY DO YOU EVEN TALK AT INTERVIEWS JUST LET PR HANDLE IT OR SOMETHING

YOUR CEREMONIES ARE RETARDED

*deep breath*

I guess... I guess they're necessary then. God that's a crock. Important details like that shouldn't be laid out in 2nd-string spin-offs half the fanbase haven't played. It's like, what, does the plot have a required reading list now?

 

Of course they are, but we should be able to understand how things work well enough to follow the story without having to jump from system to system following all of these little benchmarks and writing down everything we see. Spin-offs are supposed to be optional - an add-on to the original work, not necessary to comprehend it. This is what causes so many people to get lost.

 

Well even Sora had some ceremony , if you think . Sure he received the Keyblade because of Ventus heart, but all this time he was touching the keyblade (that wasn't his) and when it finally consider Sora's heart to be fitting it came back to him (at Hollow Bastion), thus he became a true keyblade wielder.