Homophobia

So, in the end it is just because it is a religious thing that makes you say it is wrong. That is what I was wondering.

Not so much from apes, really who also have sex for pleasure. Also, I'd debate this more with even other animals outside of apes but I don't want to confuse you more than I probably already have. Thank you though for talking the matter of this out with me.

Why should you tell people not to have sex if they don't want a kid? A person should be aware if he/she has sex that a kid -could happen- but why should a person not have sex if they understand the risks and are prepared in case that did happen? Why do you care if someone has sex and it is for not producing a child?

Ah, I didn't realize you were so young. Sorry about that. I'll try to explain it a bit more by what I mean about attraction and why it's not just something you pick and choose. If someone is not attracted to someone, the desire to have sex for reproduction is also not going to happen and if forced, that person stuck being forced is going to be miserable. It is like rape, even if they have to consent to it. If it does, it is a rather forced issue and what love is that couple going to have for one another, let alone the fact that the child is going to be mistreated? Think of the most annoying boy in school you know who you find disgusting. Would you want to have sex with him? Could you even think of kissing him without gagging by reflex? What if you were forced to have to do it for the sake of reproduction? This is how straight people feel about being with someone of the same gender. It is also how homosexual people feel about being with someone of the opposite gender. Bisexual is the exception but they also have preferences of the types of males and females they can stand, which often have mirrored qualities.

To make it even easier to see what I mean, think of the most disgusting food out there. Some kind of food you've tasted before and wanted to literally hurl over, or maybe you did, trying it. Now, if this food is the only food you have for the day to eat, are you going to want to rather starve and hold out to see if something better comes along? Most people would. Imagine that this is the only food you can have because some people tell you that it's what you should eat because it's healthy for you, even though you can't imagine how it can be so because every time you smell it, you want to head to another room and thinking of tasting it makes you gag. This is how homosexuals feel. This is how straight people feel. And this is how some others feel about certain sexual behaviors etc.

It is natural for us to have attraction to some things and revulsion to others. It may or may not be something people are born with but it is clear it is through hormones and if the attraction just isn't there, it isn't. Think of all the women throughout history that have had to marry by force and had little joy out of having sex with her partner because of arranged marriages. Her life would be dull and she's just living to do a job of taking care of a house and loving her children. She may never have loved that man she was stuck with. Attraction is important as a part of marriage. It's not the only thing, but who wants a kid with someone you aren't interested in? I hope that makes more sense.

I don't believe that a person has to be 'married' to have sex but yes, I do agree that if people have sex they should at least have it in their minds that a kid could come out of it. However, gay people really don't have to worry about that, but instead have to worry about STDs, as does a person who is straight. Unprotected sex and even protected sex without thinking that it could result in having a kid or catching something is just plain stupid in any day and age. If someone likes someone and is attracted, no, he or she doesn't have to go 'do it'. You are right. Sexual relations of any kind should be thought out and taken seriously whether a person is married or not.

The comfort of marriage though is a good thing. It means two people are going to be devoted and not sleep around on each other, or at least that's what it means to me and most people, I'd think. So it gives a person a good comfort zone and a fact of trust with another person. This is why I don't mind gay marriage too. It means those two people are going to be devoted and have sex and not catch STDs and it means they will have a more stable life because of that. I have far more of a problem with open marriages, which I have no idea why they are allowed or polygamous marriages than I do with gay or straight marriage between 2 people that love each other, because at any time you can add more people into the picture and it loses its purpose.

I do understand why you think marriage should be for reproductive purposes and such, but I just see it different that instead the most important thing is the trust factor and devotion and the fact you know where your partner has been. Not all couples that are straight produce children so there has to be a love there and commitment that keeps it alive. Gay couples to me are like those that can't produce children who are straight. It means something very special to them to be together through thick and thin and there is more to a marriage than just having kids. It's also the desire to have that person you love throughout your life and to grow old together, have fun and have someone around who you have had the most intimate of experiences with. Because we divide on the issue of religion though, I do understand why you feel different about it, but even quite a few Christians see it this way because they understand later on in life how important a partner can be and how it just makes people have a much better life to have found someone who interests them on several levels for that special intimacy. Couples aren't together just for sex or reproduction or there'd be a lot less people wanting marriage.

 

Right, firstly someone brought up an example of Michael Jackson's Neverland ranch. I don't remember who the hell that tart was, but here's a b!tchslap.

And as a small input, now I really personally believe that your choice of sexuality is *mostly* (note the use of that word) based on influence rather than you being born with it. Yeah, I said it. Choice. Not in the "Oooh I'mma be a gay now!" way but in the sense that your surroundings (and education) CAN unconsciously influence your taste. And like taste, it's very possible to change your opinion on it, was one to put the dedication into changing their mindset.

So, in response to this thread, I agree with that Ron White video - homophobia is one of those silly fickle dumb fears that shouldn't be around and can be gotten rid of. Though respect to those who don't shove their opinions and hate towards gays and totally shun them away - in some places it's still the case. Homophobia is only wrong when you start using irrational force to keep it "closeted" and by means to discriminate.

Again, someone brought up the "Gay Parade", and how it's meant just for showcasing or whatever - and I have to say, I always thought those parades were somewhat meant to open the eyes of said homophobes and try to express their own free will, because anyone who thinks that our society fully accepts homosexuals is ignorant.

I wouldn't really call it a manifestation but sometimes from the articles I've been reading, there's some stem from that base. They're not trying to turn you gay, but more like try to express themselves for acceptence.

"if it does, the kid will not be normal" - well that is just lol.

No, you're just trying to wave his point as invalid by means of avoiding to reason with him. You bring up the argument of reproducing and, by your logic, if one can't have children then they're not meant to be - let alone have sex. Mirai is right -- some men and woman CAN'T have children, so neither are they allowed to have sex or be in love?

 

The video has been removed. If you could PM me what was said in the video or post it here (without the profanity) that would be most appreciated.

Also, my beliefs are my beliefs. They won't be changed. I will never 'support' gay or lesbian relationships. However, I promise I will never bash them for their beliefs. For, if those are their beliefs, I will accept them and treat them like any other person.

But, like said above, if one crosses the line and tries to 'hit' on me, I must tell them the way I roll. (Straight)

 

I was the one who brought up the Neverland Ranch.
And I blocked the b!tchslap with plain out common sense.

There are no two types of anything.
But when it comes down to classifying good and evil,
being Gay doesn't automatically make someone who is Evil, good.

That's not to say Michael jackson is Evil.
Since when is abducting kids,
raping them, and making everyone homophobic, evil, right? *Rollseyes*

Homophobia is not as simple as *click* it's gone!

In fact, it's one of the few fears that probably shouldn't be cured entirely.
It's fear that makes us think clearly sometimes,
but it can also cloud our minds.

In the cause of irrational fear,
it clouds the mind.

But when it comes to rational fear, like my case of homphobia,
it helps to see sense.

I use AOL,
and it's a little too Pro-Gay.
It's not the avatars that support Gay pride
that really tick me off though,
it's the fact of an avatar that flashes a "No" symbol over
"homophobia".
That's taking it a bit too far.

And as for showing off a sexual orientation like that?
Like anybody really wants to know and/or cares about it online.

True, it would be very hard for Gays/Lesbians to find
an actual partner in real life, due to prejudice,
but other than that,
there's really no point to shouting out your sexual orientation online like that.

 

No, a straight couple can try. People who are lesbian or homosexual can never say they tried.

As I said before, although, everyone has a right to this world and to be in love, no matter what their sexual orientation.

Nobody should discriminate against that.

 

Being gay is not a choice. It is never a choice. Some people choose to kill themselves rather than admit to being gay. If it was a choice, why not just choose to be straight and not kill themselves?

To be honest, your entire viewpoint is baseless and not welcome here. Take it somewhere else were people of your "calibere" will pat you on the back and reinforce your completely wrong and sick view.

I am actually so angry right now lol

To think people like you still exist in the world, your parents should be arrested for crimes against humanity for bringing you up like this >_>

 

Nor does being straight make people good in their actions. Some of the worst serial killers have been straight. Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, and so on. They were all heterosexual. Micheal Jackson never abducted kids, unless you can research this claim with an unbiased source that said he did. As far as I am aware, the children had their parents' permission to be at the Ranch.

But they are still people which you seem to deny all together simply by the tone of your posts. Homophobia does not help to see 'sense' no matter how much you rationalize. All homophobia is is a stupid, useless phobia that people come up with for something that they shouldn't be affected by. Seriously, unless a gay person asks you to sleep with him then it doesn't affect you at all. And if this does happen, just casually say you're straight. Chances are they're not going to rape you.

So then by your logic, I can say that AOL is Anti-White because they have avatars for Black History Month and Mexican culture. They're pixelated images that you can choose to reflect you and they do not reflect the company's beliefs. As far as I know, AOL does not speak for or against the issue at all, all they wish to do is provide internet/phone to people.

Again, why should you care what gays and lesbians do? It's not like they're sending you to gay porn sites on the internet so don't complain about it. It's really out of your hands if a person is gay or straight. Their personal life should be between them, their partners, and their families. If they wish to state their orientation on the internet, that is their choice to make. And they shouldn't be persecuted because of that choice made.

 

I'm not being stupid,
no matter how many times you say that.

Homophobia exists.
Homosexuals exsists.
Deal with it.

And the only thing
"forcing me" to post here,
is people like you.

Hypocrypites like you
who say that I'm wrong
to have a uneasy stomach around people
who aren't straight.

If you would for once
read one of my posts
the way I wrote it,
then we'd both get along.

But as for the moment,
you're just making sure other
people hate me and any other homophobes,
by screwing, pardon the phrase,
with my actual meanings.

Black history month and Mexican culture
is definately something to be proud of.
Once again,
your using some stupid tactic called redirection,
to evade my truths,
and spread your lies.

I am homophobic.
I am accepting of gays.
Get over it.

 

L_F's post pretty much sums up my thoughts to your post BaseSeb, so I'll just pick out this one quote:

I don't think anyone ever claimed that homophobia could be gone within a click. I just said it's possible to get rid of it.

If you're refering to my post then here, lemme clear this for ya:
Did you read anything past the part when I mentioned "Choice"? I never intended to use it as its naked meaning alone, but more to try and use it in the same context as "taste", but joint. I even made an example to waff off remarks like yours which thought I was going down the rather simple-minded road.

That's very true. In fact, I remember stumbling upon a thread in a Christian forum where this woman was grieving over losing her child (who suicided) because he was homosexual. I myself used to think that homosexuality was an in-born factor. But recently my thoughts have changed due personal experience, much thought and resources that I've been seeing.

I'll say it again: imo it's really a matter of inexplicable personal taste which you unconsciously develop as you grow, and you just naturally stick to it. Though sometimes, your surroundings can, unconsciously as well, influence your sexual orientation. In my earlier post I said it was a possiblity, but I never ruled it as the one-way things go.

Changing is almost never an option, let alone a thought - it always seems impossible. Persoanl taste itself DOESN'T just vanish like that, and it certainly doesn't just vanish if you simply told yourself you wanted to "think this way".

HOWEVER, it IS possible to change your taste was one really, really dedicated into doing so, and tried to force themselves to it. Of course it depends on the person and how he approaches this matter, since everyone is different. But just to say, it is DONE sometimes. But I doubt for most it's done overnight and some possibly never manage until they helplessly give up. Like for me, who is arachnophobic, there is no way my standpoint will change so long as I had a really, *really* fix mindset to try and change it. Though I do know it's possible - I've heard plenty of stories that prove just this - I just don't have what it takes (yet) to force myself to fix it. As much as there are stories where you unfortunately have homosexuals suicide, there are just as much stories where you have homosexuals who "swing the other way" and indeed develop a good life.

Oh please. Insult me for all I give a damn but don't be a wanking jizz c0ck and leak this onto my mother.

...

Though if you weren't talking to me then just forget this entire post that I wasted some hours on >_>;

 

I'm honeslty sorry to those who simple read my posts in
a way that I did not write it to be.

Confusions on my stand-point usually happens alot
when L_F drops by to negate everything I say.

If it's any counselation, Laurence:
Nazis had different view points
that were mislead,
but yet they were men who did not in
fact deserve to die the way they did.

There were certain elements of Hitlarer's ideas
that actually have sanely gone through with into today's world.
You just take out all of the bad stuff,
and you're always bound to find a way towards the future.

And if you just read that post wrong as well....
Boy... am I gonna hear
one heck of a rant,
or What!?

One of my favorite movies
is The Eagle has landed
All because it isn't biased completely.
Also Michael Caine is one hell of a great British Actor.

And I would also like to point out another
great British Actor I have alot of respect for:
Ian Mckallen<<<<HINT!HINT!<<<<<<<<

 

Don't flatter yourself so much as to think I'm personally attacking you. I'm not. I'm simply stating my opinion of what I interpret from your posts. Nothing more or less than that. Don't get so offended...really.

Point out to me when I mentioned Nazis in any of my posts in this thread. I don't recall mentioning them at all. And if you are referring to my avatar than that doesn't bear any weight to this discussion. Yes I like reading and learning about Nazis. End of Discussion.

How can you know how people are going to interpret your posts when you type them? As far as I know we have not conversed outside these threads where you say you're a rational homophobe. So how can you really know what my thought process is based on a few posts I directed at you?

Simple answer is: You can't. Don't try to.

So you say you admire these actors. I admire Sir Ian McKellen myself as I admire anyone who can say that they're gay and still live their lives normally.

Also when I said that homosexual people should not affect you I meant that it was their personal business. I feel that what people do in their private lives is their business. It shouldn't matter what they do in their personal lives, hence why it's called personal. It shouldn't matter if someone is gay, straight, or bisexual. It doesn't change the fact that they are human beings and have a right to love who they will.

So please, read my posts more carefully without seeing them as a personal attack.

(Also, who ever de-repped me for my previous post, nice going on derepping me for having an opinion.)

 

Homophobia is a phobia. People can learn to face a fear and get over it. One way is by exposure to something that is going to be around and seeing it's not going to bite the person or make them keel over and die etc. However, if someone clings to a phobia and doesn't want to get rid of it, well, they will keep it till the end of their lives. I say this not for just you but also BaseSebastion who has homophobia.

BaseSebastion, there is a point though that you are trying to 'rationalize' homophobia, which in seriousness a phobia can usually hardly ever be rationalized. It is an over-exaggerated fear of something which is in fact irrational in most cases, if not all, which is why we are discussing it out, right? You aren't a bad guy, and I appreciate you talking it out because that is in a sense facing the fear, so I'm glad you do it. The problem is some people aren't going to understand a phobia because it -is- irrational to have it. So if people are short with you, that would be the reason why. It's not that they hate you. It's just that it is logically a silly thing to worry about. There are phobias for nearly anything and they can terrify people and yet other people can look and say 'what's your problem?'. That's just how it goes.

Seriously, it's a bit more serious than just a 'choice' and I see you acknowledge it to some degree but it is an attraction and hormonal thing. Some people who are bisexual can swing both ways and that's how they are but someone straight out homosexual will just not be attracted to a person of the opposite sex, regardless of how you try to say they will. Someone who is straight will not be attracted to the same gender no matter what you do. Homosexuals have been in existence since the dawn of mankind and it is even seen clearly in the ape world that it exists. Bonobos are largely bisexual, homosexual and straight.

I don't believe it is a 'taste' at all but a hormonal attraction and this has been scientifically shown in rats by altering hormones in them that they can change gender 'preference'. There are gay couples that raise straight kids and vice versa. There have been homosexuals under the Dark Ages, Crusades, etc where even though it was greatly threatening, including in even the Nazi regime if we want a more current time, and the behavior was very frowned upon. It is a part of human nature that some people will be homosexual, some bisexual and some straight. What I think you are thinking of is teens etc that 'experiment' to find out what exactly they are. They do seem to play around as their sexuality is awakening in some cases but generally figure out what they actually are attracted to, and if bisexual, it can change what they think is inviting or not. As I gave an example before, I think it works strongly along hormones and wiring. We have different things we can eat too. Because I was raised in my family and they all love peas, one would figure I did too. However, the smell of them drives me from the room. I love ice cream and yet my twin doesn't as it bothers her teeth.

The only way I feel environment is involved is that if gay behavior is permitted and not shot down, gays can know what they feel and experiment as straight people do. It's just like you might never think that Asian girls were hot if you had no exposure to them at all, but if you did...zing, there it is, so you know.

This is the reason I don't like how some Christians feel they can voice Homosexuality is wrong. The suicide of these kids is horrible and they feel terribly guilty for something that is natural to them. Evangelical Protestants especially are the worst right now with how fascist they seem to be and many deaths happen because parents are really rotten to their kids.

Again though, I have to disagree with you that it is just a 'taste' in purely homosexual males and females as well as straight males and females. Bisexual people are different in that they can go either way but even their attractions are usually for similar traits in the men and women they get drawn to. If people can say it's a choice to be gay, it means it's also a choice to be straight. There is no middle ground here. And by experience and talking to plenty of straight guys and gay guys, I can say that it just doesn't feel like it's a real choice but more strongly what a person feels attracted to.

Well, the point is for purely homosexuals or straight people, no, the taste of the person I don't think will alter so easily at all if it is even possible. For bisexuals, sure, but that's because they can swing both ways and it doesn't really matter to them. I think the aversion a straight person feels to doing someone of the same sex is literally disgusting. I know it is to me. Just like I can say with certainty I will always find peas to be the most disgusting vegetable in the world and that even though I'm not allergic to them, anytime I've been forced to eat them, I threw up or felt like I would. Now, if I feel such an aversion to being with another man, I can buy it that homosexuals feel the same amount of disgust to being with someone of the opposite sex. I've had lesbians tell me straight out that penises are so gross to them and had gay males tell me bluntly that the thought of putting anything near a woman's genitals is so nasty to them. I don't get it. I won't profess to, but I can also say the thought of having sex with another man grosses me out too. So that's just how I have to accept what it is from their end.

The Nazis were fascists. They murdered many homosexuals in Germany along with Jews, Gypsies, rebels, Communists, handicapped people, etc. There is a serious difference between having a phobia and seeking the annihilation of people based on other circumstances. Not all Nazis were bad, and I'm a big WWII buff but in the end, I'm not sure what your statement is actually referring to here. Those who died were Nazi war criminals and that's how war works. Some Nazis who actually were soldiers etc did not die, some SS did not die for being soldiers and surrendering, and some Nazi party people did not die because they were shown to not be taking part as much in these death camp operations as well as some actually did what they could to liberate Jews such as Oskar Schindler, Georg Duckwitz, Albert Goring (excuse I can't put .. above the o), Wilm Hosenfeld, Von Moltke, Eduard Shulte, Albert Battel, etc did do things though most were in service to the Nazi order.

These people however obviously weren't with the fascist movement of the Nazis which was to what.... force people to live under the guidelines they set because anything else was unacceptable. This is exactly -why- people fight today about learning to accept things of our human nature and to stop persecution on others by race, gender, sexuality etc. No one wants to see another fascist movement birthed that gains power in any government that can have the power to do what Germany did. This is why people try to fight against tyrants in 3rd world countries before they use the fascism to become warlords that threaten neighboring countries and they get away with massacring their own people behind their borders.

So a phobia is one thing. Fascism to get rid of gays, or any harmless group to society is purely wrong and deadly. A phobia is a silly thing that a person must deal with, or a group in the case of something as massive as xenophobia (fear of outsiders). However, once a motion of phobia turns to hate, violence, disgust and a desire to destroy, such as what happens with the Nazis, it's time to stop the people at nearly any cost. I see you accept gays but do have the phobia you do so I would not compare you along the lines of Nazis, but I also don't think you should compare others who have a problem with a phobia as Nazis either.

 

1.) Maybe I was jumping to conclusions...a bit.

2.) You got really ticked off when I did a joke considering the Nazi salute.
So I decided to make a good metaphor to make up for that.

3.) I actually have rational fear.
It has nothing to do with being rational or rationalizing.
Irrational and rational are just two key terms in classifying phobias.

Ex:
Irrational fear of dogs: You jump every time you see a dog,
even if it's just a pomeranian.

Rational: You are invited to a friend's house who has a dog.
You have caninephobia,
but you deal with it,
and just hope the dog doesn't try to interact with you
too much.

4,) List of actors I admire plain-out for their talent,
not their sexuality choice:

Sir Ian Mckellen(Thank you for helping me to spell 'Mckellen correctly)

Harvey Fierstien, who actually did a voice in
KH II. He did Yao in both the Mulan world
and the voice of Yao years ago for the movie 'Mulan'.

Alan Cumming, who I actually think should do the voice of Marluxia
if Square-soft decides to make English dubs
for games he's in.

Ellen Degeneris, greatest female comedian. period.
Glad she's getting married.
Her girlfirend is hot, though you did not hear it from me...<.>

And....I can't think of any more names on the spot......

5.) You usually negate my point, Laurence.
Such examples is another thread in Intelligent discussion
where you claimed I was stating false aligations,
saying that gays should be banned,
and that I was being biased.

And truthfully, some things were speculated on what I heard
and did not know.
But those things I edited out of the original post there.

And not to mention a looooong time ago in Febuary when
I tried to prove Axel and Roxas weren't gay.
Which I failed completely at....xD

And I'd also like to state:
(Some nogoodnick derepped me as well for my opinion.
Said: I disagree with your views. (I had the wording wrong at first, but then checked my CP)
My reply to them: Nice description....you really put your all into that, didn't you?

 

Sadly there is always someone that will come and do that and there's no point griping about it. It sucks someone does that instead of posting to the forums to debate it and rationally talk it out, but that's their right to do so. I'm sure it will be made up for elsewhere.

Axel and Roxas to me weren't gay. I can see why some people think they might have been but I didn't really see proof of it either. In the end, Nomura leaves stuff up to the players of the games so we just take it as it goes until we see them kissing and such.

 

Ehh..which member are you talking to?

Overall, I believe the 'choice' of being gay varies. Some people are born with unbalanced hormones and other choose to be gay. Simple as that.

 

Intelligent Discussion is one of the only places where people actually do get derepped,
now that I think about it.

Because everywhere else,
you get derepped for being a noob,
by intelligent people.

Here, Intelligent people get derepped by noobs....>.<...xD

Anyway,
I'd rather not get into that subject about Axel and Roxas again.
Even though they aren't gay,
and even though yaoi pairings can be funny,
they can also be wrong.

I'm the first person ever in roleplay,
I might add,
to play him out not being gay....xD
I'm might actually even be the first dude in entirety to take the role possibly,
since alot of girls usually take him...<.>

But let's not bring fiction into reality.
At least for the moment,
since Axel, Roxas, and marluxia rule along
with the rest of the organization! xD

 

Yeah...wasn't that what my phrase was saying in a nutshell? That was definately what I meant to point out anyway.

You know Repliku, it's funny because after reading your post, I realise that I'm really not sure what you're arguing against, if just my flimsy choice of words which I don't think I'm getting across correctly - at one tiny moment I think you're argumenting against something but then you later only support my opinion. I don't know if you misinterpreted my post or if I just badly expressed myself.

I NEVER said gays or straights will be attracted to the counterpart they're not currently attracted to. And I am well aware that homosexuality has been in exist ever since - if you remove the word scientific explaination in your post, my thought of sexuality actually matches yours to an extent. However what I was merely doing was laying down that some (Yes, SOME) people DO change, and some homos DO attempt a straight relationship despite them thinking they couldn't before. (Here's a story which will probably shock a few who know the way I roll: Once upon a time I could not get the appeal of crossdressing. It was one of things I absolutely loathed and never thought I'd have a change of heart - but lo' and behold, I live off that stuff now.)
Obviously not everyone can do it, or wants to for that matter (I am, and always was, refering to both straight and gay) I think I even mentioned that earlier - I was just laying down the fact that it's been done before, and it puts into question how sexuality really works and whether it's something we can generalize to this extent.

Again I'm not denying homosexuality's existence or anything, and I am definately not thinking of your average confused teen dilemma where they struggle to know their sexual orientation by experimenting. I'm literally talking about people who change orientation during some point of their life, either it was a sudden impulse that they felt on doing or something else. Again, it's something not everyone can do - but what IS for sure is that it's done by some. I'll take the example of a story from a very member of this forum, where her lesbian aunt who was apparently living her life as a homosexual suddenly had a change of heart (apparently felt that homosexuality was wrong) and is now married with a stepson.

Wasn't it also once scientifically proven that homosexuality was something we were born with? At any rate, I definately remember reading an article where a bunch of scientist were explaining they were on this concept. There is also this Bisexual erasure - how some think bisexuality is not a sexuality, but just a confusion. Not that I'm passinig away your point, it's just that there's a lot of confliction on the matter that in the end the whole issue is a confusing load of bollocks that it's hard to know what to believe.

Agreed. And I will stop here since the rest of your post was basically a repetition of what you said above anyway, and will only result in me having to repeat myself. I hope things a tad bit more clear now DD^:

 

You are right that some people do later change but I am not sure if that wouldn't have made them bisexual all along instead of straight out homosexual. Then again, hormones can change during life and also sometimes people hate something when they are younger but later they don't, so yes, it is one of those things of quandary to ponder.

I wasn't really slamming on your post. A couple things I wanted to counter and some others to explain more because I did think you were saying things similar but the wording was what was getting some countering so I decided to analyze it deeper. Thanks for responding to it.

A few people do change such as an aunt of a friend I have who was a lesbian for years but then later in her 50s decided to get married to a straight guy and is happy. So, knowing that, it does make you wonder if people can just 'choose'. I think though in her case and some others, it's an actual change in the person and I don't think gay behavior derives really from an environment since as I said, it's been going on forever even when at times it was very harshly condemned and persecuted. People still are raised in some places to hate homosexuality which is why some people commit suicide; because it is something in them they don't feel they can fight and yet it is a sin. Also, losing your family and being ostracized is certainly a weighty issue on the person. I would think with all of that over a person, which has been there for hundreds of years, that being gay could not just be an environmental issue but an internal one.

 

Such things are also key points
in comedies.

Adam Sandler, a great producer and comedian,
did a movie where the plot had a story behind it.

In fact, it was the first movie I ever actually saw.
Saw having the meaning:
I understood it was a movie,
not just a thing parents put on
to shut you up as a kid.
Hence the reason why I admire Happy Madison
movies alot.

He[Sandler] had gone to law school,
as the character Sunny Kofax,
with five other friends.
All of whom,
became lawyers.

Years later,
Sunny isn't a lawyer, instead he's a
childish bum who's dating
the girl he went to law school with.


Another friend from high school he shares an apartment with,
another friend works in the same lawfirm as the two
last friends about to be mentioned.

The last two friends, one played by Alan Covert,
the other guy I can't remember who plays him,
but they appear to just be talking
with Sunny, and the friend who
works in the same lawfirm as the other two guys.

At the end,
one of the last
two friends gets up and
says: I'd better be getting home.

And so the other last friend says: I'll walk you out;
See you at home.

And then they kiss
while the other two guys are looking around.

The joke: The last two friends
are both guys.

After they walk out,
hand-in-hand,
the friend sitting
beside Sunny notes:
Ya'know, I'm still kinda weirded out
when they kiss.

Sunny: They're gay, that's what gays guys do.

Other friend: Yeah, I know,
but they were like brothers to
us back in law school.

Sunny: They're our brothers,
are very, very gay brothers.

xD

And then later in the movie
when Sunny is walking
his new Girlfriend, Layla,
back to his apartment,
shes asks:
Aren't you sorta freaked out that they're gay?

Sunny: At first, yeah,
they watch a different kind of Porno now, but...(And they both break into luaghter at the joke)

So, comedy hasn't changed to the point
where Homosexuality
has totally ruined it.
They just sorta
made Bugs Bunny look queer is all.

 

Sure, Bugs Bunny did some transvestite skits but didn't every adult already think it was funny and nutty and hinting at things? Transvestite skits have been done for years and I don't think it makes Bugs Bunny appear gay really as much as it is just funny skits to show how he takes advantage of Elmer Fudd in other ways. It wasn't ever intended to be 'sexual' as if it were the Rocky Horror Picture Show or something.

In the end though, I think you are dealing with the homophobia. Accepting gays doesn't mean that people are going to become gay. It's just saying that their lifestyle is theirs and yours is yours. It really is no big thing and this is what the difficult thing to do is...remove programming taught to us by centuries of hate and intolerance of it. That is why there is homophobia and awkwardness. I will say straight out that I was homophobic in the beginning too for a few years but once I actually met gay people and it became part of my daily life to associate with people who were gay, the fears and stuff went away. Yeah, it's weird talking sex jokes and stuff with them, but I've even learned to get over that awkwardness. It does happen.

Really it also helps people in a way to understand it all and have self-confidence in yourself too and your own 'preferences'. In the end if nothing is wrong that doesn't harm others, such as gay relationships or straight relationships where people are honest, I don't see the negatives. Yeah, so it means sometimes a girl I think is hot happens to be a lesbian, but in the end there could be any other reason a girl wouldn't want to have interest in me either so eh, it's just another thing to toss in there. If a guy did ask me out or something, I know I can now just say 'I don't go that way' and it's cool. It does take a while to get used to it, but this particular phobia can be worked out as long as you look for the truth in life and don't listen to rumors and things those who are afraid or hate say. Gays don't hate straight people. They get upset at those with hate or those who won't accept their lifeway and we of course would get mad too if they started taking away our rights. Some people who are homophobic feel that they are being encroached upon but the reality of the situation is that gay behavior has been around forever and is it better to just pretend it doesn't exist and act shocked when it is uncovered or to just make it an acceptable part of life so that no one, straight or gay, suffers from losses of work, biases, etc? As I said, accepting it doesn't mean people are going to be gay. It just means you realize it's out there and that's just how it is. It seems you are working things out so keep with it and hold your head up.