Kingdom Hearts II Heartless & Nobodies: The other way around?

Hey! Im sure this has been thought up by just about everyone, here. However, I'd just like to see what you guys would say about this.

Now, everytime I'm trying to figures something out about Kingdom Hearts (like a theory or something) I always get confused. The main reason i get confused is because of the antagonists of the story: The Heartless and the Nobodies.

Now, according to Nomura, Heartless are people who's hearts have been taken and are now creatures resembling the evilness that they had possessed. Nobodies are people who have no hearts and are nothing more than just the body left over. When a person who's heart has been taken, they themselves turn into a heartless while their body turns into a Nobody.

So, basically, going off of what the descriptions are, the heart IS the person. The heart turns into a heartless. So, that means that the PERSON is now the heartless. From that, the left over body thus reverts into another being known as a Nobody.

Now for the confusing part...

Heartless = The person's heart manifested into a creature (assuming that the body was left behind, it has no body now)

Nobody = The person's vessel/body with No Heart


Shouldnt it be the other way around?

Heartless = The person's vessel/body with no heart
Nobody = The person's heart manifested into a creature with no body

In other ways, the black creatures with yellow eyes seen in all the KH games would have been called Nobodies instead of Heartlesses. And with that being said, Organization 13 would have been a organization with 13 Heartlesses.

Going by this way, Sora would have turned into a nobody himself... and Roxas would have been his Heartless. I guess this way wouldnt be beneficial to the story so I like it how Nomura has it. This is what confuses me.

 

I know. I was, and still am confused about this too. It just never made sense to me. But I don't care. I just go by what Nomura says.

 

I never thought about it that way. But yeah, that does make sense.

 

Yeah, I just figured that it was kind of weird to have it the way he has it. But, it's his story and I'm fine with it.

 

you now confuzzled me my friend

 

:roll: See what I mean?

 

:sweat:ok,i re-read what you posted and i think i get what your saying now


an offtopic note:sparta:

 

it should be the other way around, if that was the definition.

Heartless: A creature that manifests itself when darkness takes over.

Nobody: Whats left behind after someone becomes a heartless (soul and body). In a sense, nobodies as a whole are "younger" than heartless. They appear after heartless appear. What I mean by that is, when someone loses there heart they go heartless automatically...a shell of a human drifts off after losing its heart and becomes a nobody later.

 

Well, it kind of is that way, though if you think about it deeper.

Nobodies - they do lose their bodies. They essentially had their bodies removed by Darkness when their Hearts were taken. The Nobodies' bodies they get are not their real original ones, but instead are made up of Darkness and another element and memories of their former self. So, technically they did lose their real body.

Heartless - the person loses his/her Heart as it is corrupted and eaten by Darkness. For the emblem Heartless, the heart is held inside but the body cannot get to it and the mind and soul went on to become a Nobody. For a pureblood Heartless, the devoured Heart is eaten and whatever remains of body becomes a Shadow, Neo-Shadow etc. This is why when you kill those, you get no hearts that show up.

It does seem backwards at first glance but at looking closer but technically whatever remained of the body was transformed to become the Heartless new body and is technically now just part of Darkness. The Nobody though has to make a new body out of memories of their former existences. Those who had the strongest Hearts before transformation were changed into Nobodies that held an appearance which resembled mostly what they looked like before becoming a Nobody. Those who didn't, end up looking like one of the other lesser Nobodies. For Heartless, the bodies transform into the type of Heartless that devoured the person's Heart, so if a Fat Bandit had a person, that person's body would be taken by Darkness and mutated to that. An example of it is in KH when Sora goes through to the 2nd level of Traverse Town and a Soldier Heartless gets some random guy. His body disappears and the Heart rises, changing into another Soldier Heartless. So, that's my best guess it's how it works.

I hope that explains it and helps out. It does seem though it should be as you said, but I don't think so when I actually had really thought about why it would make sense.

 

Purebloods have hearts... as do emblems.

Only ones that truly vanish to my knowledge are Invisibles and Darkballs. And thats because they are made up of pure darkness without hearts.

At least to my recolection...

 

Wrong. Purebloods are Shadows, Neo-Shadows, Invisibles and Darkballs. It is explained in the Ansem reports. Any that have an Emblem contain the Hearts within them. Any that are Purebloods reconstruct the body and heart to Darkness. This is why when you kill them, only Emblem Heartless show Hearts rising up out of them. One contains the Heart, one alters it utterly. Xehanort created the Emblem Heartless and they could not mimic exactly the true Heartless.

 

There is a contradiction. Ansem the Heartless, Xemnas, and Ansem the Wise all studied heartless in depth.

None of them noted the difference.

Also, in KH1, shadows do release hearts when you kill them. (Am I mistaken? Doh! Now you made me doubt myself...)

 

I'm pretty sure that any of the Heartless that are Purebloods, to include Shadows do not float up Hearts. I am looking for an amv of it since all I can find immediately is of KH2 which the Purebloods there don't and even at the beginning of the game, where he is attacking Hollow Bastion, they just disperse into Darkness if struck. Finding a KH1 amv of Shadows is like near impossible. lol. I'd like to also make sure.

 

But wasn't that a memory from when he was in Castle Oblivion? In that case it would make sense since they are not real.

The rest of the vid takes place in Castle Oblivion, from the begining when he left the island... his memory vanished!

(I haven't found a way to highjack this thread into my usual arguement in case your wondering why I havent done it yet...)

 

No, it wasn't just a memory. I am trying to find a video of him attacking Shadows. I am pretty sure the rule held true for all Pureblood Heartless that they did not float up Hearts after. Shadows are the most basic form of them. Has to be something somewhere.

 

you know i understood completely until you said that. now im very very confused and i will never understand anything again. THANKS ALOT!

 

makes seance to me but the writers made up the names and charaters as they go along. I'm sure in the remake (in 20 years) they will make changes

 

im more thinking of

Heartless = The person's heart manifested into a creature by the darkness in the heart and the darkness made flesh.
Nobody = The person's vessel/body with No Heart morphed by nothingness.

 

confused.
:roar:

 

and I bet it will get even more confusing once we hear the explanations for unbirths:crashcomp: