god existing vs god not existing

xD Tis okay. At least you are making an effort to post. This section gets more dead every day :'(

 

Well from what I've seen, KH-V isn't full of smart people :l

Then again neither is KHI, so yeah, our intel/debate section sucks too.

 

The story is right. But what do we know?
I've sat there for hours trying to figure this sort of stuff out and all i come up with is a bunch of questions that all basically end up being why?
No I'm not an athiest. Yes, I do believe in God. But sometimes I wonder whether its true or not.

 

As an Agnostic, I can only respond... Can't we all just get along? Why does it matter so much? Why must I come to this section and see ten threads consisting of "God doesn't exist!", "Who Do You Believe In?", "Do You Believe in God", "Jesus kicks arse!", etc?

 

My family is Jewish, but I'm atheist all the way. When I tell that to people, many of them respond by saying things like, "Well then how do you explain the existence of something as complex as the universe?" I simply respond by saying, "Why couldn't it have been there in the first place?" Of course that isn't what I really think. I believe in the big bang, but some people can't fully grasp that concept, which is why I respond with that sort of question.

 

Complexity doesn't really indicate design anyway (simplicity does), most people don't seem to grasp that concept.

Also, "Complexity" is subjective.

 

Right, I get that, we assume that creation is complex but really we have nothing to compare it to. But what we come from is that every system in creation fits together so well that we find it hard to believe that it wasn't designed. Not using this argument, I'm just saying.

 

What we come from is that if we see a complex machine we assume that a human being has sat down and designed it, not that it formed itself over time. It is a completely false analogy when it comes to the universe. The main difference being the sheer timescale.

Another analogy that is used is that if you were walking through a field and found a watch you wouldn't assume that it had grown or had formed. You would assume that it had been assembled by a watchmaker. Again, false analogy.

 

And I can see where this is coming from, that the systems had a lot of time to develop and perfect their balances over time. It's just the fact that there are things like gravity that create perfect equilibriums such as orbits, and I don't think that gravity could've developed over time seeing as it is a property of mass.

 

^ This.
There's no absolute proof that God exists, and there's no absolute proof that God doesn't exist. Why do we have to debate over something that hasn't been solved in thousands of years, and probably won't be solved in another few thousand years, if ever? Just let everyone believe in what they want to believe, and don't harm anyone in the name of your religion. It sounds so simple, yet it's so hard for some people to do...​

 

It's because people are egotistical ******bags who can't solve things without fighting, myself included.

 

The universal gravitational force is constant and has been constant since it separated shortly after the expansion (the four fundamental forces [strong, weak, electromagnetic and gravity; with gravity being the weakest by far] separated into separate forces with separate properties after the event). The reason it is a value that seems so attuned to the existence of life is because if it wasn't then we probably wouldn't be here to notice (good ole Anthropic Principle kicking in again).

The reason for this is that wars are fought over religion. People are willing to give their lives for something that has little factual basis beyond what they were taught as children. It is dangerous and in my mind wrong.

 

While I don't believing in fanatically pursuing people in the name of religion, or going around trying to change what people believe in, I see little harm in having a discussion about it on internet forums like this.

Maybe it's pointless, I indeed doubt any of us will change our beliefs after any discussion about it, but I have fun doing it. Good enough of a reason for me.

 

But were the universe not attuned to life, it basically wouldn't exist. We, as life, are the only reason anything has any importance by this logic. But as far as directly proving creation by this goes, you're right. I have no argument against this.

 

That is when the Anthropic Principle turns to arrogance. When people say that if there is no observer then it is irrelevant and might as well not exist. If it were not for the countless reactions and interactions taking place (especially the ones we can't see) we would not be alive. Are they irrelevant because no-one is looking at them? No. Same can be said for a universe without sentient life.

I'm not like arguing against you by the way, just clarifying a point for others xD Wouldn't want you to get the wrong impression ;D

 

i love god and his son, and i do believe they exist even though i dont agree 100% with the views of His church.

 

Adam and Eve are not Realy, but I believe in God.
What I mean is that the old testiment was writtend as just myth stories to help people understand God's creation. And the new Testiment is true stories.
I had Religion class today hahaha so yeah XD
(I go to a Catholic school, so Religion is compolsury...)

 

How do you know what's true and what's not? How do you support the claim that the New Testament is more truthful than the Old one?

 

Really? If the universe weren't attuned to carbon-based, bipedal, oxygen breathing, light-dependent, terrestrial life, it wouldn't exist? If it weren't attuned to our life, it would probably be attuned for some other kind of life. Silicon-based, for instance. Or some element that doesn't exist under our laws of physics, but might under another universes' laws.

IMO, the worst arrogance any being can have is assuming he is superior to anything else. Just because we are the only type of life we've ever found (and are ever likely to find, considering the Democrat's anti-space policies) does not mean that we are the only life possible.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, since I am writing this at 2 AM right before going to bed. Take it as you will.

 

God is too prevalent in this universe to not exist. The way it, life, and the Earth are designed are far too convenient and yet complex to be just a coincidence. I see Him in my life every day, in His works, His miracles, and His grace.