Existence of God/gods

The New Testament is more literal than the Old. It is, of course, very unlikely that Jesus' birth happened the way it did. I am personally open to the idea that the story of the Nativity is entirely fictional (I know he was most likely born in Nazareth, anyway).

I believe in a higher force in this universe, if not in others.

 

Life in a way is such a 'magical' experience. I've enjoyed exploring, researching, seeing and studying fossils, collecting rocks and minerals, walking around amidst nature, studying animals and plants and human history and anthropology, as well as genetics. I really love to do these things and find it fascinating to have the ability to not only read things but also contribute in the scientific community as well as broadening my knowledge base.

It is for this reason, as well as studying religions and mythologies for years, that I can say I don't really think that there are these mysterious gods out there or one that runs the life cycle etc. To me, any current religion is also just a fanciful story, a mythology, a tall tale etc, and that what's really out there is what I want to focus on. I do like to study past mythos etc and I can find some 'human' lessons amongst them despite how much larger than life some beings have seemed. Some gods are cruel, others are amiable and care about humanity, others are selfish, pious, greedy, snobby, elite, friendly, loving, etc. The tales are human despite having an aura of magnificence to them when speaking of the deities themselves. Some deities even started out as real humans at one time that were elevated to godhood status. It is for this reason though, the human nature of the deities, that I cannot truly see them as real. The other reason of course... is proof.

I have seen nothing in my life, with all the things I explore and research and have gone through, that leads me to currently buy into superior entities that can control such dire effects as the gods are said to. I'd be more inclined to believe in aliens than gods that are part of the fabric or -are- the fabric to existence and destruction, the very cycle of life. If I ever were to see actual proof beyond 'feelings' and taking some book or person's words to heart, then I would change my tune. If a god showed up and said some things and we could converse with it, sure thing. But none do. And then religious people say others are ignoring the signs. To me, gods are safety nets for people, imaginary friends and nothing really more than that. They have a power because people give them one, just as much as Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny does. We know Santa and the Easter Bunny are figments which the hands behind them are the adults. It's kind of a coming of age to know these beings are just really your parents hiding Easter baskets or giving out presents once a year to those who are nice. However, they are endeared by some because it's a tradition that's harmless. Mythologies today are read by many people though only a very small percentage believe in them to this day. They are regarded as stories. I do not see the current religions as being more than this either because they have the same amount of 'proofs' that made Mythologies at one time real.

In other words.. there are some values to learn, gods make for good storytelling and such, but there's just nothing out there that shows me there's anything more to it in this day and age. I can explain many phenomenon via understanding how it works and through examination. I was given a very cognitive brain and choose to use it rather than settle for the 'simple' answer. I cannot say -absolutely- there are no gods, but until I actually see proof, I can leave it open. I'm just pretty sure though that even if there were gods, they most likely aren't how humans describe them and they obviously don't want from us what some people want us to believe or by now we'd all be dead or they'd actually be part of our lives and leave nothing to question.

 

Damn, I miss your mega posts...
And always trying to stay on the fringe of reasoning, not completely one way or ther other.

 

I have commented on this point many, many times and I will continue to comment on it as long as I deem it necessary to. As far as I can tell in terms of actual physical evidence as well as my own experience is there is no such thing as a higher power and there never has been. The idea of a higher power(s) first began in an attempt to explain the world and evolved into a way to control people. During the process of controlling people (which no-one can deny, the Catholic Church effectively had a death grip on most European societies for a long time) it became an emotional crutch which it remains today. Even this I see as a bad thing as it means people aren't able to survive on their own, even thought they are quite capable to.

In short, there is no higher power and any organisation that says that there is is wrong.

 

eh, It can't be proven for either side, although I mainly lean to the side of God/a higher power not necessarily existing. I feel personally that relying on a force to get me through a lot of tough problems, while it may be therapeautic, will only hurt me later on.

 

So then, you're saying that if a god has any connection to humans, be it in power, aesthetics, or personality, they can't be gods or just can't be real at all? That strikes me as doubting the awesome power of humanity.

On the contrary; you've seen everything. You yourself remarked on the magical experiences you've had with life: fossils, nature, genetics. What's more, you've probably seen so many wonders that you never even recognized for how wondrous they were. If there is a god in all this world, He can be no more powerful than if He is all of this, all around us; this world, these people... are God. You have conversed with God; in fact, you do it every day. No, I'm not talking about some cheesy "God is inside all of us" line you'd hear in a Christmas movie; I'm saying we are God. Perhaps there is some external force of creation and destruction, some originator that caused all this to happen, and that does seem more likely to me than random chance; but what I believe in is the God that I see, the God that is in all the wonders we behold in this world, that experiences every goodness and every evil at once, and is able to create greater and greater wonders every day. I believe in us. This god is not a being or a thing; it is all things.

And like Santa and the Easter Bunny, these figments of our imagination hide much more valuable lessons that we can learn from very real people. When we're given presents at respective holidays, we think it's cute to blame it on some fat man with a big white beard, but how much more would it mean to a child to know that his own family were the ones who spent so much time, effort, and money finding him/her these wonderful gifts?

God is not a safety net; that is a misinterpretation. God is a philosophical concept. Anyone who uses God as an excuse for the good in their life or a crutch to stave off the evil simply cannot understand that we have the power to do so ourselves. God banishes our demons? No; we do. God creates miracles? No; we do. God delivers us from death? No. We do.

Like I said, that's not to say there isn't a God, and that He can't do these things. But we have the capability. We do not need to lean on God. And He doesn't want us to, though He will allow it. We're meant to forge our own truth.

 

The awesome power of humanity is creativity, imagination and the ability to inspire great things or rather crappy ones. Sentience is a great gift and yet a blight to others. Imagination created up gods to do fantastic things to explain phenomenon that has no need to be there now. It was a means to also control the population because some people don't fear repercussions in life but would fear an all time burning or freezing or torment somewhere not nice for their souls. Life and death have always fascinated people and death is such a frightening concept to some. Seeing as I have no fear of it nor a desire to really hurry things up along, I really could care less.

Humanity and life in itself are great things to study and be a part of, to learn the good and the bad. We don't -need- to have these supernatural entities that have no proof of existing to make life more meaningful. Some people think they do and it makes life more meaningful for them so it works for them. To me, it's limiting and it gets in the way of making me a decent person to be one free of will without fear of punishment and I feel more genuine in all I do. Also, what I meant is that why would a god so powerful as Yahweh have fits of jealousy, condemn, murder, order rape, taking of slaves, encourage human minds to see against what is said in challenge against his speakers etc and then outright slaughter babies? Why does Yahweh, if he existed, put a tree up in a garden that has forbidden fruit on it and not expect the very child like, naive minds of Adam or Eve to do nothing? Why does he act superior and punish men and women for all eternity for putting a proverbial cookie jar on the table, bad influence comes over (and he knows it will happen because he -knows- all) and encourages one to eat a cookie.. Then essentially the one shares with her friend/partner a cookie. Hmm.

Adam and Eve is absolutely stolen as so many things are from other cultures. It's also a lame story that people should have laughed off in this day and age and yet even here, people bring it up to defend it. Yahweh has some awful fits for an omniscient, omnipotent deity that has interfered in human's lives in the past and yet condemned them for his wrong doing. In the end, it's a very -human- creation, in my eyes, because a god with these abilities and powers he possesses surely could not be so cruel and should have punished himself instead but humans.. we love to pass the blame to others. It makes Yahweh look pretty weak and pathetic.. human, even with all that power.

Life is a grand thing. 'Magical', is said not in the way you take it. Just because something can hold you in awe and amazement, that you can feel you are a part of things and that life and sentience to experience it more fully than others lacking it can... it does not mean there is some god out there who had to be responsible for it. There is nothing to suggest, to me, other than our imaginations that some originator had to be involved. You see and choose to believe there is an entity there behind it. That is a leap of faith. I once believed in it too, but have lost the desire to when there's nothing for me to back it up. However, I realized that the stories are mostly full of mythology stolen from what Jews and Christians as well as Muslims call bunk now. Why is it the earth was created in 7 days is more believable than the earth was created in the numerous other ways that have been described prior? It's no more valid. There's nothing at all to back it but human imagination and a will to see it as more truthful. Just because people believe in something, doesn't make it the truth. That's subjective interference.

What I see in this world is what I -know- I can see, feel, taste, touch, hear. We have a lot more power to observe and comprehend than we ever have and more information becomes available readily. I can confirm the earth is over 6000 years old. I can confirm the existence of species and that the moon has water, and the moon does not cast its own light without the glow of the sun, and the earth is not flat and held up on any pillars. Some people believe in religious entities, but with what truly is going on out there and the fact none of them step forward, and things can be explained and felt, analyzed in a fashion that doesn't just say 'God did it' or 'The devil did it' .. well.. I'd rather go with what actually feels very real to me rather than trying to put off things to beings that seem to be figments of our grand design. You believe in God, and that's fine. Your perception is your own. I just don't. I respect your actual respectful post in this regards and can see why you feel as you do. Until something comes forward, as much of the book can be disputed by current logic we have, I feel there's no real reason to take out 'parts' of the book to keep valid while others are held in earnest. I'm just not that way.

And to me.. children get told God is real and Jesus died for our sins which were caused by God in the first place. They get told the stories of the Bible so cutely that it seems beautiful and inspiring and colorful. I find this to be more harmful than Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Stork, etc. Reading the real story and all, I was rather horrified at how bad the stories told in church school to kids are. That is the biggest lie of my life. To read the truth in both the Old Testament and New, It was nice to have the lie there of cute tales but the real Bible.. let's face it, it's not kid's stuff at all. To me, the cute stories are brainwashing and some people never read or do anything beyond knowing them how religious people want the masses to see them.

Santa... he's a rotund, happy jolly guy that gives out presents to kids on winter solstice time and brings joy to kids. Finding out it's your parents doing it.. it still in its way is special and as said, sort of a coming of age so you can carry it on as a friendly thing.

The cute Bible stories.. they are lies utterly because the real tales are nothing like the cute toned, sugar coated and watered down kid versions. Noah, Moses, David, Job, etc.. these aren't things to be proud of and I have no idea why people find them something they are willing to carry on.

God cannot be a 'philosophical' concept. It is a religion. Philosophy asks questions and you don't even always expect an answer. Religion flat out -is- the answer, no questions need asking. What is Yahweh like? You know reading the book. How was the earth created? You know, reading the book. Why do women get painful monthlies and are subservient to men? You know by reading it. What are God's laws to get to Heaven? Again, you know. There really is little to no philosophy applied to Yahweh or Yeshua. It's all spelled out for you. Some people do think of philosophical ideals around a religion, sure, such as asking 'Does God exist?' and 'What does this passage mean to me?' or 'In this day and age, should a woman be wearing full head to toe attire or not?'. However, some people really don't want others doing that.

I like how you say that you are not meant to lean on God. If only many other Christians believed that. Your views are those I wished so many others would follow if they are going to believe in a religion. It makes it possible to have others, regardless of religious views, to have some decent conversations and friends. Despite our different opinions, I know you're good people. I have friends like you and am glad to know them. We respect each other on so many other things that believing in religion or not, or having different religions does not really clash for us. It's awesome and someday I hope that more people will feel that a leap of faith to any belief, or choosing not to do it, doesn't make the person bad or good. The person is what they are by their actual actions, not their beliefs.

 

That's... kind of what I said. I totally agree, but like I said, I think it's misinterpretation that causes people to rely on God in that way.

This is why I no longer subscribe to Christianity, actually. More specifically Catholicism. Not to say it can't work the way they think it does, but it's all so steeped in stolen folklore and silly stories that it's just too difficult to defend it day by day. Regardless, it only becomes ridiculous if you take it all literally.

Also, note that God doesn't do any of those things you named in this day and age. It's possible that any instance of cruelty is just a fabrication, any condemnation or order to destroy non-believers is just misinterpretation of His will. Regardless, if you want to believe that He truly was cruel, maybe He's learned His lesson and left us to our own affairs. I don't know; no one does. But the topic du jour isn't the nature of God, it's His existence.

No, you misunderstand. I'm only saying that perhaps there is a god behind it, but I cannot know, nor can anyone; I find it far more likely that there is a god in it. It's similar to pantheism, if you want a reference. What I'm trying to say is that I believe that God cannot exist in a form that is superior in power or faculties to the collective universe, humans included. Perhaps there is a god that exists parallel to this, but that's not the one I have evidence for. What I know is that everyone is expecting to eventually reach this state of zen, enlightenment, some magical paradise or nirvana that awaits them for all their trials in this world, and on the throne of this paradise will be the Big Man Upstairs, the external force of all goodness and evil to which we pray and plead to save us; we're always looking for something external, something we can search for and find, something we can grasp with our hands. I can't prove that external force exists; what I suppose is that the internal forces at work within all of us, and the universe, are just as powerful as those of the god to which we pray. They do say He made us in His image.

Like I said, I don't believe those stories either. But that's not the only explanation that's ever been given for God's existence or how we came to be. Regardless, what we're trying to describe is something we haven't ever seen and probably can't even fathom; trying to assign comprehensible mechanisms to it will ultimately make it sound ridiculous. There was no concept of days when the universe was first being created; even if there was, there are many variations on the length of a day, so it could have taken Him what would seem to us like weeks or months. I'm not trying to defend those stories, just providing an explanation as to why they sound ridiculous.

Fair enough. For the record, I believe all of those things too; I'm not trying to espouse the "A wizard did it" theory, I'm just trying to change people's perspective on if and how God exists. I don't believe in God the way most people believe in God.

We're in agreement there, then. I'm not a huge fan of the Bible.

Again, that's a misinterpretation. Religion is a branch of philosophy. If anyone puts religion forth as an unquestionable, irrefutable answer, they are flat-out wrong. We cannot know, so we cannot have the irrefutable answer. The reason the Bible and the people who preach for it are like that is because they are carrying over the old ways, back when philosophy was just another science. It was all very ambiguous back then, so people could just put forth an answer and it would be accepted. But we are inquisitive and skeptical in this day and age; religion does not hold nearly as much weight, and the old zealots need to learn to let go of that.

Same here. As Gandhi once said, "I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. They are nothing like your Christ." It's so true. That's what's turned me away from Christianity for so long, although I try not to hate the faith as a whole, because I know it's all just misinterpretation. And obviously I have Christian friends whom I trust and respect. It has never been said, by God or Jesus or anyone else, that we should hate and discriminate or that people who don't automatically believe are going to hell; if they did, it's a fabrication by the writers of the Bible. I refuse to believe that, if a god exists, He would give us free will and turn us away if we stop believing in Him. That's why I don't believe in the Christian god, but rather a universal godlike entity that exists in all people and things; it's what connects us. I know it'll sound nerdy and stupid, but... it's kind of like the Force, or the Lifestream, to me. It's the embodiment of our free will, our ability to influence the world around us, like a current that flows through everything. Discouraging interaction between people with differing viewpoints stifles this current and is the ultimate sin in my book. So hopefully we can phase that out, like all the other ignorances we're slowly getting rid of.

 

That does make sense. After all, if relying on another force to solve problems for you is what you want, then you are responsible for not trying yourself as well. So it will cause you problems later on.

 

a man is drowning
he says "oh god, save me"
rescue boat comes by and a rescuer says "Lets get you in"
the man says "im waiting for god to save me"
another boat comes by and says the same thing "Oh, lets get you in"
the man says once again "god will save me"
the man dies
when the man reaches heaven he asks "God, why did you not save me?
God said "What do you mean? I sent you two life boats!"


ok that was probably not relevant. But this thread reminded me of that story.

Anyways I do not believe in a higher power, But because of this I never turn down a person who is religious or anything like that, I mean religion is something that can fulfill a person's life and give meaning to oneself, along with comforting thoughts about death, like you are able to go to Heaven and spend the rest of your life in eternal bliss, but also makes the person more aware of their actions, avoiding bad decisions to avoid Hell.

 

I'm agnostic. I believe that there isn't sufficient evidence to prove (or disprove) the existence of any deities. Every religion is equally valid as far as I'm concerned, because there is nothing saying that one is any more true than the other(and furthermore, nothing saying that one religion is absolutely right about everything and that all others are completely wrong); that said though, I don't agree that just because something cannot be proved or disproved makes it in any way plausible, because you can rationalize and explain away any belief you want regardless of how ridiculous one would find it (you can't prove that the Matrix doesn't exist, you can't prove that Santa doesn't exist, etc). The only reason we make an exception for gods and the like is because of bias and a cultural legacy.

Many people of faith are quick to denounce scientific phenomenon such as evolution, common descent, abiogenesis, and the Big Bang, and generally(see: most of the time, not always) they don't have any idea what they actually mean and are unaware that they're not necessarily incompatible with their beliefs. If you're going to criticize and denounce something, you should at least try and make sure you know what you're talking about. If you want to learn about science, go read a scientific journal, don't go looking up creationist websites (obviously, it also works the other way around).

( By the way, the phenomenons of evolution and the Big Bang have already been proven, and much research is still being conducted into the field of abiogenesis, this much is not up for debate; if you don't believe me, and are under the impression that they are "just theories", you should probably read up on what the word "theory" means in a scientific context, i.e gravity and electromagnetism are theories, but I don't see anyone complaining about them and wanting to issue disclaimers that they are such in textbooks).

Absolute truth is unobtainable for us, we have to assume that the world we experience and live in is real or else we'll never get on with our lives, which brings me to my next point: regardless of all that, it IS possible to have high degrees of certainty...just not through religious beliefs. I'm not going to deny that religion can do good for for people, but just because it gives you comfort, hope, and purpose, does not mean it is true. The truth is the truth, nobody ever said it had to be pretty.

I also don't agree with the idea that believing in something is less risky than not believing. It assumes there are only two alternatives. The three biggest religions in the world all say that anyone who does not believe in their God specifically will not enter that religion's heaven, so regardless of you being a christian, muslim, jew, or whatever, you're taking a risk. Even then, there is not any ground upon which to base the concept that a God would value blind faith over anything else, because we have no idea what kind of being he even is, if he's even real. He might value objectivity, logic, and search for the truth instead. Regardless of what you believe, you are taking a risk. That said, you should believe in what you think is the truth, and not believe out of fear.

The notion that any God would punish his creations eternally for finite crimes (regardless of how heinous), and even worse, for not believing in him, is also repugnant to me. The entire idea behind punishment is to teach that the action was wrong (and why) in hopes that the person will learn from it, and not repeat the action again. "Hell" completely destroys this principle by making the punishment infinite. You have no reason to learn anything from it, because you'll be there forever anyway, there is no chance for redemption or to apply what you might learn there.

It's even worse if the person was good all around and never did anything too atrocious anyway, outside of just not believing in the deity, especially considering that there's no reason to believe in him over any other. Making people suffer for not returning your love is petty, cruel, and spiteful, and a God who is willing to do that does not deserve my respect or adoration.

One more thing:

We have a word for that, I think: close-mindedness :/. Personally I'm more than willing to change my beliefs (or at least, play around with the possibility I'm wrong) if I see evidence or a good argument.

 

The nail has been hit on the head. There are sadly people who will think like that. A family member who died before I was born was able to get a treatment to save her life at the hospital she was at, but she refused because she seemed to think "God" would save her.
She then died a day or so later.


I've said this before, I believe - Belief in God and such is essentially sheltering yourself from the real world. I am not saying they're stupid, I'm not saying they're losers. I'm just saying it's pretty much a shelter.


Also, I have to ask: How can it not creep you out knowing someone is watching you 24/7? God's watching you eat, sleep, take a ****, take a shower.. I have no clue how people would be able to handle that.


Also, this is slightly irrelevant, but Atheists or general non-believers, when a believer tells you you're going to hell, tell them you don't have intentions to go to Michigan any time soon (or if you live in that state, replace michigan with "that city".
Yes, there is a city in Michigan named Hell. Look it up if you are doubtful.
Yes, I know, it's corny.

 

Well, I'm pretty sure there is a God. But, like he just said, there is no proof. But, there should be a surprime being out there somewhere. It doesn't have to be a God. It could be a random alien that made everything. But, I am a very religious person, so I believe in God no matter what the facts say.

 

You're right, there is no proof showing God exists. There is also no proof that he does not exist. There is only evidence, and quite a lot of it, both for and against. I don't really think the truth is knowable. If God did exist and he showed himself, then that would nullify the idea of free will, since people would have to believe in him whether they wanted to or not. And besides God showing himself to us, I don't think there's any possible way to find out, unless you were raised an atheist in which case you're either smarter or more emotionally stable, and in either case you're able to understand concepts like this that we Christians just can't wrap our tiny brains around
-_- I'm fairly certain God exists, but I don't know. He may exist, he may not. I believe he does.

Disclaimer: People who claim to know the absolute truth about God, whether they're overly religious or hardcore atheist, drive me crazy. The reason I targeted atheists is because, for the most part, the atheists here are showing arrogance/close-mindedness in ways that are a lot more smart-ass/nasty than the Christians. And that really ticks me off :/

Be careful. That statement makes you sound very close-minded, like if there was some discovery that proved beyond a doubt God did not exist, you would still believe in him.

 

Hey, I remember you.

Evidence is proof. I've been through this with you. The word you're looking for is "arguments".

Then how come that there are things that we do know for certain?
Not just God's existence but in fact any certainity limits our "free will". And yet out of all the things revealed, God's existence isn't one of them. Peculiar.

Being ticked off by close-mindedness is actually just another form of close-mindedness.

I don't believe in God as a being. Deities used to be big business when we craved some explanations on how the world works. Fortunately our knowledge of science has expanded since then and God's role has been reduced to that of a poster boy the Christian teachings. Teachings I don't follow.

 

I was under the impression the evidence was something used to support an argument but wasn't certain, and proof was something that was undeniable. Arguments, then. Whatever.

I think I see what you're saying, and you do have a bit of a point. I'm trying to figure out exactly what you mean, though. If you're talking about general facts, that's taking it to a bit of an extreme. I mean, does knowing that the sky is blue limit our free will? Extremely technically, I suppose it could, but nobody is going to be bothered enough by the color of the sky to be upset by the fact that it's blue and there's nothing they can do about it.

If you're talking about major, potentially life-changing stuff like evolution or the existence of God... There are still many theories out there that haven't been proven, but are thought to be true (or not). Not everything that's true can necessarily be proven (I'm NOT saying "God can't be disproven, so he must exist" because that's nonsense).

How so? And it's not just the close-mindedness that bugs me, it's also the way people express it. I'm a lot more patient with close-mindedness, and in some cases arrogance when it's not flat-out rude and disrespectful. And I will say you've seemed to improve quite a bit in that department since our last debate. Notice how I'm not flaring up and getting all defensive because of some rude, offensive, or antagonistic comment you made on my beliefs.

And that's fine. I don't have a problem with you believing that. I don't necessarily think you're wrong, I just disagree with you. (If that makes sense... I know it seems really contradictory but hopefully you'll know what I mean.)

 

Maybe not the sky being blue but there are other examples still.
Classic one: the Holocaust. I can imagine that there are people who would rather not know that their daddy gassed Jews.

Because close-mindedness is a philosophy like any other. Some people do not bring up respect for an idea or a person until earned. Kids are being taught to bring up a minimum of courtesy during social interaction but some choose to stray away from that original standard, like teenagers often do.
I myself have never seen the use of an open mind, nor the point in hiding that I don't have one. It is a standard some live by and they are free to express themselves as such.

I'm not doing it because I like it, but as a mod I can't have too many people complain about my behaviour so I took it down a notch. I haven't improved.

 

True.

I see what you're saying, but I think you can believe something as long as you're open to other possibilities being true. Having an opinion doesn't necessarily make you close-minded unless you're unwilling to consider other ideas.

Personally I respect other people's beliefs/opinions, and other people in general unless there is good reason not to, but that's just how I do things.

I do honestly try to keep as open a mind as possible, but it is exceedingly difficult sometimes. And I admit my mind may not be open all the time or as open as I wish I could have it, but I do try.

Ah. Well then. Never mind :/

 

It's like one of my Agnostic freinds says; "I have nothing against God; it's his fanbase that I have a problem with." And I can see where he's coming from with it.

Also Twilight is already a religion. Cullenism; look it up.

 

I couldn't want to not know anymore than I do now.



I do believe in a God. Whether that makes me Christian or not, I'm not sure. Christianity has been interpreted and misinterpreted throughout millenniums; the Bible has been written and added to and changed several times by different people. It contradicts itself on several points. It teaches that homosexuality is a sin, then says to "love thy neighbour as thyself". ...Except if thy neighbour is homosexual? Seriously? You expect me to believe this? Everyone should have the right to be of a certain religion, without being rejected for who they are, no? For reasons like this, I don't put faith in the Bible and its teachings. It doesn't say why, just "do this, this, and don't do this. BECAUSE I SAID SO."
I believe in afterlife, because I believe that everyone has a soul, and when a person's body dies, their soul must go somewhere. Whether its heaven, hell, purgatory, reincarnation... who knows?

On the object that there's no proof of God existing: the point of "faith" is dead when there's proof.