Evolution vs Religion

Thank you for reading my posts. Really, if you did then this post would not be necessary from you. Don't just skim the threads looking for posts to appeal to you. The point of a debate is to listen to ALL the people involved and THEN reply to them. Not just listening to a select few because you feel like it.

/rant

Saying that the Bible is infallible proof of God is like saying that the Holocaust never happened. Both schools of thought are wrong because we have proof that the Holocaust happened.

 

Um...no they weren't...otherwise, they'd be in the freaking Bible...

 

And exactly how hard is it to omit someone's text? Oh that's right, not very hard at all! Some fire its gone! An irresponsible person, its GONE! Artifacts are too easy to destroy.

Hmm and another thought has occured to me, what if someone who was "supposed" to write the gospel was illiterate? How would their part of the gospel go?

And another thing, WHAT do the scrolls of the dead sea have to DO with this debate? Ah yes, that's right you are trying to prove that your religion does exist right?

Seriously, one question I have of every creationist supporter which seems to be GREATLY ignored: IS IT REALLY THAT HARD TO ACCEPT YOU MAY HAVE COME FROM LESSER BEINGS?! IT'S EITHER THE LIFELESS MUD/RIB OR THE MONKEY! PICK ONE.

P/S: What did we learn from fossils about the OTHER creatures evolving from single-celled organisms?! In your precious gospel it does not say "God created ZOOPLANKTON" it says "POOF! AND THEN THERE WAS A MAGICAL ZOO."
And anyone who preaches another word about the work of God and I will say "BEHOLD THE WONDERS of the HANDS OF MANKIND achieved through sweat, blood and tears!"

 

Strangely, I agree with this argument, well in a christian/science sense.
I mean science has the theory that time is in a loop, it keeps going on and on, in a sequence and this could also apply to what iPraise puts about THe Creation, The Fall, The Redemption and then go back to The Creation.
It fits in with both science and christianity.

 

Think of it only life can create life, only Human woman can have a humun baby.
Only life makes life, if you can't accept that you need to check again.

Revelation 22:18-19
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

 

Ever heard of the Miller-Urey experiment? Yeah, it proved that life can be created NATURALLY.

First of all, using Revalation is PHAIL. Do you really believe that those horrible things will happen because people USE THEIR FREEWILL?

Secondly, the books of the Bible were CHOSEN to be in the canon. What you know as the Holy Bible was created by mortal men.

 

Oh, you won the argument with that. Amazingly enough, many people including myself are not just using science, but also history, social evidences and cultural proof. You are using a book that although some points in it make the bible a noteworthy relic to study for some history and psycho-analysis of the people back then, it's not so useful otherwise to those that do not worship it. After all, what other proof is there? All you have to say is the following so far:

1. Anything that tests the bible out is fake.
2. The bible is real. The words are absolute. The end.
3. I don't need proof; I believe.
4. Believe me because I'm a Christian!

Why are you even bothering to debate? With such great awesome proof as that you win the argument hands down. Not. If we went by what zealot, absolute bible believer Christians wanted:

1. The world would be flat.
2. Women have no souls.
3. Men as long as they are Christian and absolve themselves to Jesus can do whatever they want.
4. Slaves are just fine, as long as they are yours and they aren't Christian.
5. Working on Sunday would be enough to condemn people to Hell.
6. Animals have no rights since man is ultimately allowed to do anything to them.
7. You can murder anyone who is not Christian and it's all good as long as God said it's okay.

There are reasons why Christians debate their interpretations of the bible commonly and why there are so many different groups. To believe in God does not mean that everything is 100% accurate.

 

1. I'm sorry, where in the Bible does it say that?
2. Hokay, that was just stupid to say.
3. That's wrong. TOTALLY wrong.
4. What? It never says that.
5. Noooooooo...Why do you think Jesus died for us?
6. Give me the verse and show me.
7. What is going on in that head of yours? All the others were wrong, what makes this one right?

 

Oi vey

let's take this in order shall we?

1. It doesn't say it in the Bible but it was a widely held belief that the world was flat until the time of the 15th to 16th centuries when the European Explorers. Vikings and onward, explored the New World.

2. It is stated in several places in the Bible, New and Old Testement that women are 'creatures of lust and sin' and 'not to be trusted'. This may be a good deal of the male domination of the Church coming into play. Also a lot of patriarchal societies held a sort of 'Yin-Yang' belief about many things.

Meaning that since one thing is good it's opposite has to be evil. So Yin = Men{Good} and Yang = Women{Evil.}

3. This might not be so much the Bible coming into play but moreso common belief. Since God is all forgiving.

And you all wonder why I don't take the Bible seriously.

4. Again yes. You read about several instances of this, moreso in the Old Testament than the New Testament. But it was an accepted practice of the time to have slaves of different religious beliefs than your own. [Sarcasm]Since we know Christians would never enslave another human being...[/Sarcasm]

Anyway,

5. Again...'Thou shalt keep Holy the Sabbath Day' Commandment #3

6. In the book of Genesis, God gives Man dominion over the Animals of the Earth. Now this is taken more as Man is made as Stewards or caretakers of the Earth. But yes, according to the Bible, Man should do with animals as they please.

7. 'Thou shalt not kill' Commandment #5. But again since God is all forgiving and as you said, 'Jesus died for our sins' why should anything like killing your fellow man matter?

 

1. The Earth is flat. Apparently there are 'corners of the earth' and you can also look down from the highest mountain to see every kingdom of man. This is in your bible. Also, the earth apparently does not move or rotate around the sun. Conveniently, the earth also has pillars. I will just post some of the best examples.

2. Women have no souls and may as well be disposable for how low they really are.

Women are also pretty evil and stupid in the Bible. Look up the passages because I shouldn't quote it all.

And my favorite quote that says that women are crap because apparently Adam is innocent while Eve gets slammed for eating some fruit because of the devil. The funny thing is even in the Quran, Adam AND Eve both are punished and held responsible.

So, where in there do you not see females as being lower than men and having any real value at all? There are pastors who debate strongly that women have no souls to this day and that they are not to even be taken in the least bit seriousness because men go on to heaven and there they won't need women anymore.

3. Where does it not say that? The whole point of the 2nd Testament is to say that Jesus dies for the sins of mankind. It is to say that all people are BORN sinners and if you want forgiven for all transgressions all you have to do is believe in Jesus and God. That's the whole point of the book, is it not? Apparently, the only unforgivable sin is the bottom thing I list.

4. Slaves are just fine as long as they aren't Christian.

That's Old Testament. So, now onto New Testament.

Slavery was around at the time, so of course, it's not a bad thing. Seems that it was pretty condoned and a regular way of life to Jesus as well. So much in fact that if a slave didn't do what he/she was supposed to, whip em good.

5. Yes, working on the Sabbath is bad. If you don't ask forgiveness for it, it's a Hell-worthy offense. Look it up.

6. Animals have no rights.
Quakers even right now in PA seem to believe they can have puppy mills galore where the dogs are treated like utter crap. The religion also says what is a 'clean' animal versus an 'unclean' animal so people know what they can eat or not. Piggies are so dirty but they make great bacon. In Idaho, an animal shelter banned black cats for religious Christian reasons.

The reason? Because Christians are taught that men have dominion of the earth and only have to answer to God/Jesus. God is also apparently biased to what he would accept in sacrifices, and so are people because they have to know what is considered clean and pure versus what is unclean. This meant God had animal favorites! St. Francis was considered also a heretic at his time for caring for animals and nature, but later was made a Saint. The line in Genesis that says men have dominion over the earth and animals has suffice to say caused a lot of stupid things to transpire. That's not probably God's will, but stupid people.

Genesis 7:8
"Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth" Genesis 7:8

In other words, people can do with it what they want. Subdue it, have dominion over it and rule it.

7. Thou Shalt not Murder. Christians later changed it to 'kill' to reflect that no one, of course, should be killed. However, the original wording is 'murder'. Let's see why there's a difference.

Okay, well, I think that's enough. If you actually read any of it, I will be surprised. If you dispute it, you dispute the words right out of the Bible. You do realize this is why Christians were afraid when the first space shuttle launched and took pictures in outer space right? They were scared it would disprove Christianity altogether. Of course, that did not happen, even though some zealots will try to say that the trip to space never happened, and still doesn't. The point here is that some Christians learned to accept the fact that there are areas in the bible that are CLEARLY written by men who had limited focus on things about them, let alone scientific knowledge. There is room for interpretation or there would not be so many branches of Christianity out there now, let alone the side branch offs such as Mormonism.

Now, how about coming up with some proof as to why Creationism is the way?

 

Okay, I'm officially quitting this debate because you're so damn brainwashed by "the truth" that you can't even begin to understand anything else.
You make the Bible sound like a huge Death Penalty or something...I mean, come on!

Christianity does NOT include the Quran or anything!
You guys just CAN'T open your minds to Christianity because, Heaven forbid, you MAY BE WRONG!
Wow, if you actually saw someone get healed of somethig huge like a tumour just DISAPPEARING, I bet you still wouldn't believe!
I've prayed for a guy with diabetes and it went away.
I've seen people CURED OF A TUMOR!
What the hell does someone have to do to get respect for GOD around here?

God loves all people.
More than we love our parents.
Seriuosly, you think He wants us to go about killing people?
I'm just gonna post something and leave:
http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Bible_Desk/proof_bible_true.htm

 

*REPOST FROM THE FORUM DATA RESET*

I would like a link of RELIABLE reference for that boat please. Also, consider how many animals were allegedly on that boat? (Since they found it, they must certainly have the dimensions of it!) Also, what about food? Elephants are not exactly light eaters either- hell any grazing animal for that fact. (Speaking of which, where would the waste go....) By the way, there were also SMALL dinosaurs you know!

In regards to the meteor....holy Grey Earl tea child! Where do you learn your physics from?! Please refer to National Geographic or any documentary provided by any of the credable science institutes for the meteor "impact size chart". The meteor that hit the gulf was many times SMALLER than the earth but it still had a monumental effect! The basketball does not destroy the car! :\

As for the water thing, WHERE WOULD THE WATER GO?! But, do tell us, it is the internet, where you can POST THINGS like DIAGRAMS and show the rest of us! (Go you can make it on MS paint, post it on photobucket and then post us the link, please supply us with the visual aid!)

Hmm, yo iPraise, if the T-Rex was too big for the boat, why did God make the T-Rex so BIG then? Hmm....oh the mysteries!

Ah yes, and by promise iPraise, does this or does this not include the eventual "Red Giant" effect of the sun? (It'll roast us like marshmallows in a couple billion years if we're still here!)

NOW BACK ON TOPIC

I thought the Bible was supposed to be your Truth! I think it might have been better that we trust logic and information. I also find your statements highly ironic.

I was under the impression that Christianity included the Torah which were the books in the Old Testement.

I'm glad you say this because I think some common ground has finally been found from your side with ours! Bravo. (Do you like the taste of your medicine?)

By the way, I have yet to have seen a "tumor" disappear without the aid of MEDICINE and intense MEDICAL treatment or an OPERATION. And diabetes does not "disappear", it has to be treated throughout one's life (do you even know what diabetes is? It's not life-threatening if you are mindful and take your insulin).
Besides, (surprise) I doubt one prayer can "cure" someone of diabetes. How about a cure for AIDS (far more terrible in my opinion and many people pray for their loved ones to be cured of that)?

YOU do not have to get respect for God. I believe you have stated that his glory is great enough or so you have tried to convince me (or us, but I can't really speak for the others).

Now as to answer your question....I believe you would have to start speaking with logical, thoughtful statements first...and then provide crediable evidence...and then be collected in composition as well as level-headed. I (normally would) respect your belief in religion however I do not respect that you constantly ignore any point that I bring up "against" him but rather you continue to go with cookie-cutter answers to questions you pick out out (and forgive me for being candid, they are often poorly written). That is why 'you' cannot get any respect for God 'here'.

Thank you for reading. :\

 

Just one last thing about your first statement.
The Bible IS my truth.
When I said the "truth" I kinda put it in quotations for a reason.

 

I accidently clicked send, there is actually more to my response...also I already assumed that our "truths" were different.

 

And that's why, that if I don't believe in him or sin, he'll send me to a place where I cry, whine, burn, and torcher. That sounds like a man who would love all beings, right?

Doubtful.

 

You only get sent there if you don't trust God enough and you don't submit your life to Him.

 

Remind me how that doesn't sound like a brainwashing statement again?

And if he is all-knowing, why did he give Lucifer free will if he was just going to damn him later? (Come to think of it, most things God seems to give free will to seems to be damned in some way or another sooner or later.)

 

When i say submit, I don't mean like totally all "24/7 NON STOP YOU, GOD!"
I am not even CLOSE to that
A prayer a day, keeps Satan away.
That's what I always say.
But seriously, God is all knowing but gives us Free will to give us choice and to do stuff ourselves...I'm guessing on that last few words.

 

What does he hope to gain through giving us free will then? If you reply "kindness" again then he should be kind enough to try and reform Lucifer/Satan. If he can't 'do that', then I really can claim "hypocritical loophole" in that respect. For someone who is supposed to be merciful and eternally benevolent, shouldn't he be able to spare forgiveness to one of his own angels?

 

Okay, I'm gonna say this as a math equation
Us + Free will = Yay
Satan + 1000 years of peace between kingdoms = SATAN DIES FOR EVER!