Evolution vs Religion

This is begining to anger me. First of all not all church's fit your description.
Second of all i have wittnesed Gods miracals myshelf, i talk t him day'ly. You have wittnessed evolotion, also the fossils you posted have nothing to do with evolution.
Third stop saying "why should I trust you" you don't know any of these people you have no right to judge anyone, i have no right, the president has no right to judge anyone. Only God has that right because he can do no wrong.

 

Actually... they do. Fossils are a big part of evolutionary theory.

 

One man's miracle or intervention of a divine being is another man's streak of luck. And like I said earlier, the whole self-enlightened thing never comes off in a good way. It's like if I were to say Sora healed my cancer with curaga,

 

They are a under water insects show me some real proof please.

As a jedi once said "in my expereince there is no such thing as luck".

 

Are insects not allowed to evolve?

And pardon me for not knowing the specific scientific study on those particular species, but my point was that fossils are a substantial part of evolutionary theory. You immediately said those fossils didn't. But that's incorrect.

 

...That were buried millions of years ago and preserved in the fallen sediment.

 

I thought we were arguing about man being evoling from monkeys not insects.

 

Well you're just beating around the bush with that statement. Never did anyone say that just humans evolved. Evolution is an on-going process that encompasses all organisms. Some simply have fewer evolutionary transformations that aren't as noticeable.

 

I have a questin for you Why do you believe in evolution?

Sorry i got to go to bed its almost one in the morning, we will continue this later.

 

If you want to draw straws and be technical about it, look there and see how the fossil skulls of apes look to your own.

And recent findings have suggested that our own earliest fish ancestors back in the sea lived alongside those 'insects' you speak of.

 

I've only observed it as the most probable cause for existence. In my opinion the odds of the Universe being created with the compression of matter and it's immediate explosion outward seem too hollow. I'd imagine that another force was at work, just what it was is the whole matter of the great debate. I can't help but see some sort of genius behind evolution. Like Lego it started out with one tiny 2x2 block, and suddenly there are entire structures. I've always thought of science as making method out of myth, not completely destroying it. For years people thought that every thing in existence is simply a balance of fire, water, wind, and earth. Now we know that we're comprised of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, and other organic elements- in fact the whole meaning of 'element' has changed altogether.

 

I never said we evolved from insects. Those fossils are probably some ancestor to some living insect species that is living today. Although that doesn't explain how humans might've evolved from apes, the concept is the same. Evolutionary theory encompasses the steady progression of ALL living species, not just humans. That's why those fossils of sea creatures in relevant to this topic.

 

Exactly, we aren't the only evolutioned species.

 

Real proof has already been shown to you. For some reason you seem to avoid looking past your nose in terms of what is presented to you.

The fact you reference a WORK OF FICTION to "Prove" that luck does not exist is rather weak as well.

And luck is merely a shorthand term for saying that certain circumstances fell into a certain order to produce a specific outcome. (IE: I see something on the floor and pick it up, thus narrowly dodging something. God does not make objects APPEAR on the floor to be picked up just so that I can avoid some trivial pain. That is by chance due to certain circumstances already set up, not to mention not every time I see something on the floor will I avoid being hit by something. Its just at that particuliar moment, I happened to be "lucky" enough in my line of events to avoid it THAT TIME.)

As for miracles that you had previously preached about- even if the odds are not in favor of something, that does not eliminate the chance of success....you seem to neglect the majority of 'lack of miracles' in favor of the sparse 'miracles'.

By saying that luck and chance do not exist you are shoving yourself into some it's-all-fate-I-have-no-control-over-it corner as well as dodging the debate.

Now, some certain amount of luck did come into play with Evolution...such as the passing on of genes, some creatures which were not at all the fittest of their species managed to survive through means of luck and caused for a slowdown in some generations of evolution...some luck circumstances also lead to some leaps forward.

A reason why we 'humans' aren't seeing a drastic change in our evolution now is for some of the many following reasons:
1. Evolution takes place over extreme amounts of time- a dramatic change will not be seen for probably, long after you and I and the rest of us debators are undeniable dust so to speak. (This is also because we are a more "complex" species with a relatively longer lifespan then some other organisms...some of the fastest evolving species are unsurprisingly insects...most infamously ROACHES among others.)
2. Humans will probably have their evolution delayed even farther because our TECHNOLOGY EVOLVES FOR US- thus elminating any natural 'hurry'.

 

I find it laughable that some people actually buy into the Creationism tale yet have no proof other than 1 book which was written by men.

The difference between science and religion is this. Science researches, proves, studies, examines, disproves and works on what exists so that we can comprehend it. Religion is a leap of faith. You take someone's word for it or a book etc and you just say 'that's how it is'. This debate cannot be won because Creationists have no proof and don't want proof of anything else because it defies their leap of faith. There are other Christians who do study evolution, thankfully and don't just live off of words by some people who also believed the earth was flat. In the end, if one Creationist viewed person ever changed their mind with all the evidence, paragraphs etc we've written happened, my mind might believe that it were possible they could look beyond what is taught, but I have yet to see it happen.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic but it seems to me that evolution is a lot easier to buy than 7 days of creation and some man being there, a woman being made from his 'rib' and we are all sinners because they ate from the wisdom tree because it was there in the first place and God put it there but you can look but can't touch and bad snake for saying otherwise. So Creationist folk, when are you going to start proving this is real? We've posted a ton of data and yet all I hear back is 'stop, it's making me mad' and 'prove it' but nothing except for some of you saying "I AM PROOF cuz I believe!" is done. Where are the mountains of evidence we are missing here? Think on this. Someone write something actually meaningful because when someone cannot answer with any kind of real validation, it looks like brainwashing to me.

 

I judge myself no better and no worse than any other human being in this world. I ask 'why should I trust you' in order to hear your reasons, not as an accusation of guilt for some crime.
Saix and others have already done the work for me in posting the same arguments and pictures I would have in order to explain why 'underwater insects' and their evolution have anything to do with this discussion. So I will try another method, that of song, hoping that it will appeal to the readers of the forum as a whole, regardless of where they stand on this issue.
I'm still a scientist. And yes, still a rabid critic of organized religion of any kind. I think it hampers us and holds us back from true spirituality and compassion in society. But it does not mean that I do not smile on my brothers and sisters, and look past our differences to see our common humanity.



Well I came across a child of God
He was walking along the road
And I asked him tell where are you going
This he told me

Well I am going down to Yasgur's farm
Going to join in a rock and roll band
Goin' to get back to the land to set my soul free

We are stardust, we are golden
We are ten billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden

Well then can I walk beside you
I have come to lose the smog
And I feel like I'm a cog in something turning
And maybe it's the time of year
Yes and maybe it's the time of man
And I don't know who I am
But life is for learning

We are stardust, we are golden
We are ten billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden

By the time we got to Woodstock
We were half a million strong
And everywhere there was song and celebration
And I dreamed I saw the bombers jet planes
Riding shotgun in the sky
Turning into butterflies
Above our nation.

We are stardust, we are golden
We are ten billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden

"Woodstock" by Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young

 

You are scaring me, Aurora. *snickers* That was like the evolution theorists' version of "Kumbaya".

 

I think i already said this but i guess i am going have to repeat myshelf those fossils are fake.

http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/ev...sil-record.htm

David M. Raup, "Evolution and the Fossil Record," Science, vol. 213, July 1981, 289. The reality of the "human fossil record" of the past century:

Ramapithecus was widely recognized as a direct ancestor of humans. It is now established that he was merely an extinct type of orangutan.

Piltdown man was hyped as the missing link in publications for over 40 years. He was a fraud based on a human skull cap and an orangutan's jaw.

Nebraska man was a fraud based on a single tooth of a rare type of pig.

Java man was based on sketchy evidence of a femur, skull cap and three teeth found within a wide area over a one year period. It turns out the bones were found in an area of human remains, and now the femur is considered human and the skull cap from a large ape.

Neandertal man was traditionally depicted as a stooped ape-man. It is now accepted that the alleged posture was due to disease and that Neandertal is just a variation of the human kind.

Australopithecus afarensis, or "Lucy," has been considered a missing link for years. However, studies of the inner ear, skulls and bones have shown that she was merely a pygmy chimpanzee that walked a bit more upright than some other apes. She was not on her way to becoming human.

Homo erectus has been found throughout the world. He is smaller than the average human of today, with a proportionately smaller head and brain cavity. However, the brain size is within the range of people today and studies of the middle ear have shown that he was just like current Homo sapiens. Remains are found throughout the world in the same proximity to remains of ordinary humans, suggesting coexistence. Australopithecus africanus and Peking man were presented as ape-men missing links for years, but are now both considered Homo erectus.

Homo habilis is now generally considered to be comprised of pieces of various other types of creatures, such as Australopithecus and Homo erectus, and is not generally viewed as a valid classification.

For your info i never said anything about fate, but we all have a purpose that God put us here for. What I said was that God helps me in tight spots and that there is no such thing as luck.
Also if you haven't looked at my name it is JedininjaZC, so every once in a while I will bring Star Wars into the conversation.
And God gave us control of our lifes so we all have control, but God helps me out if somthing happens, and somtimes he brings somthing towards my direction.

And I find it laughable that people buy evolution.
Also there are creationist scientists out there, and the dozens of men who wrote the bible were all children of God.
Also it seems you believe what you read in science books.

I have seen more than one mirical thank you!

WHAT!!!!
That song makes no sense!!!

 

I have a few links as well.

I'll give you that Piltdown was a hoax, but there's some things you need to understand about science.

Nebraska Man wasn't even hailed as a big achievement. The discoverer himself admited that he didn't think it was a primate.

Neanderthal Man wasn't deseased.

Australopithecus were far from human- or ape-like.

Java Man was a Homo erectus.

Ramapithecus was dumped in the 70's

I guess this would throw off the H. erectus claim.

Aferensis was too different from chimps.

That's all that I can find right now.

By the time I post this, someone might have beat me to the punch. Oh well.

EDIT: Nope. I had first dibs! :D

 

So if you know those are fakes why do you support evolution?