Everything in it's truest form is an Illusion for, everything is not what it seems.This form of the illusion is based on perspective and Perspective controls order because most of the laws and rules of anything are based on what should and should not be allowed which is based on peoples morality which is formed by the way they see the world and how they were taught to see the world and those who taught them to see the world was the same as what they do to others.All people have been taught from some basis of Illusion and this Illusion sustains people grip on there surroundings and the reality in which they live in.If you look at it,for some people to lose this illusion,is to lose their sanity and their grip on the present.Once they've lost there grip on the present they want this illusion and attachment to stuff they once knew back but instead of getting the illusion back they create another illusion of their own to compensate in which they create their own Reality where no matter what they do it isn't wrong.This is how the insane are born.Everything that surrounds people is as much an illusion as a mirror duplication trick.Those that see everything as is, it really are able to see the everything in multiple dimensions,ways,perspectives and views. I want to know what you think about this philosophy and if you can comprehend it because none of people who i know are even capable of understanding this.
Well there's a few ways to take what you have written and the ways I'm taking it make me pretty much agree with you in one state. As a species, we like to live comfortably and feel 'safe' though now and then the occasional adrenaline boost is a good thing and sparks some life into people. If we want to fear, we want it on our own terms and will go watch a movie or go investigate something creepy. Hope that makes sense. Illusion -> to perspective -> to control with laws and rules -> becomes morality -> becomes new perspective I think is what you are getting at and I would have to agree here. It is evident throughout history that we pick up on these social memes sometimes whether they make sense and benefit survival or not. To think outside of these rules, question why they exist, see beyond morality to make your own personal thoughts and core beliefs is something that awakens many people though others often feel stepping outside the norm is a scary thing or might make them nuts. As I've said in other posts, there are some things we tend to take for granted as if they have to be there. One example is 'Rights'. People constantly say they have 'the right to freedom of speech', 'the right to be a fair trial', 'the right to equality', 'the right to freedom of religion', 'the right to elect political officials' etc but the reality is that these are glorified privileges that people can lose at any time. If you choose to see them as privileges granted because other people fought so hard to put them in place you realize what in the end you should perhaps pay attention to. These privileges are there and are a temporary thing unless people keep an eye on them. There are always people who want to take these 'rights' away and it's happened throughout history that someone eventually does. Is it scary to think any place could suddenly lose all it has worked hard to get and that rules and rights, laws etc could tomorrow be gone by some despotic sort of being? Is a comfort zone lost when thinking about rights can be squashed tomorrow though people try to make them seem like they are a permanent fixture to society? Sure. However, it also opens a person's eyes to look back and see where societies did things where people were freer and then lost that freedom and in some cases by -choice- of selfishness and greed. I can say it helps me know what laws and 'rights' I stand behind and what laws I feel are in the way of social and personal progress so I know what I am fighting to keep and what I feel would be better disbanded. Are these things illusions? In a sense, yes, because of the way people look at laws and freedoms etc. Nothing is permanent when it comes to how societies work. We can also say we have ill conceived perceptions on whether to trust some people or not. Some people will say that family can always be trusted or a religious institution can be trusted etc because these people are like you. There's a saying that works out to be 'no one helps you like family but also no one screws you over as much as family'. We try to set ourselves up too often with expectations on people that sometimes just don't exist. I think placing expectations on people and society, expecting that they will do things inherently to benefit you or screw you over too much, is exactly where we mess up. If expectations are removed from family members, relationships with friends or gf/bf, husbands, wives etc, more truth is revealed and the only expectation that proves true to me often is that I can expect a person to be the way he/she is. It has changed my life in a way. For example: I have loaned out money to family or friends a few times because it was needed to help them make it through a rough time. By 'morals' they were obligated to pay me back. However, some did not. My lesson learned...if I can give money to someone to help them out, I better not miss it and I will just write it off so that if I get paid back, it's a surprise and I'm grateful. If I'm not paid off, I already told the newer people I've loaned money that it was a gift. Hence, I'm not setting demands or expectations on that person and I have no illusions that they will pay me back because 'morals' suggests that it is the right thing to do. Could I go to the extreme and also do things the other way and write out a contract agreement that says if I loan one out 500 bucks that he/she is obligated to pay and make the person sign it? Sure, I could. I could put the 'established' system to work in my favor. Does it taint the offering of assistance though? To me it does and also if I have to go to court, it's a waste of time. Also, I'm bothering with thinking that this money is so important in the first place which if I'm loaning it out, it must not be. This would be a lame assumption and if I need it, I can just say no. Hope this makes sense since it seems I went a bit off topic though to me I don't really feel I did. We do have our concepts of what is reality and expect that everyone shares these views but I've learned that I have changed due to seeing the 'plot holes' in the system and also just the way people work whether we like to admit it or not. I could give other examples on where I think expectations and assumptions both work to creating illusions but think that it's pretty well enough to explain the gist of what I mean. It is hard to comprehend when this tangent is explored. Interesting topic, daxma.
To put it simply: Truth is True. What you think and believe makes it seem real, but laws make it real. To not put it simply: An illusion is like saying a politician is powerful and invincible. But in the end, they can be killed as easily as any other human being. Saying a person is worth more than someone else, because they have more money is an illusion. Because in the end, all money is, is weak metal and printed paper, metal and paper does not make someone more worthy. A sign saying 'You can not enter this area' is an illusion. When in fact just because a sign says it you can't does not make it true. On many different levels we are distracted by illusions. You might think that you can walk through a wall, but nature's law says you can't. The natural law is not an illusion it is something real, something we can not change and something that can not be faked. Hope that makes any sense at all.
Repliku you were completely right but what i ment by someone losing their sanity i ment if he/she looked at it from this point of view and detached himself/herself from that which he/she is so intertwined in his/her life and in his/her mind.His/her sanity would slowly go because the illusion left behind was his/her life and to think like this would be too much for that person to bare and he would create his/her own reality and to the same extent another illusion to compensate for the loss of the old one. PaW what you said about law making it real is wrong.Law doesn't make it real but law is what reinforces it reality.You said natural law isn't an illusion but if you understood what i said you understand that nothing is ever real or solid or what it seems.If you see with multiple dimensions,Perspectives,Views and Ways you'd understand that anything is possible and limitation is an illusion.There is always a way of doing that which supposed to be impossible.You say someone can't walk through walls.Who says that it isn't possible. Limitation is apart of everything and everything is an illusion.
you know....i think about something...this thread just seems like..... let me tell you what this illusions are. "universal thruths" a universal thruth is what most of the people believe. and they are what define our being....because if politeness, maners and morals are an illusion...this is certainly not completly true....because no matter wich way you go by it...a wall cannot be passed through(unless you use a door) its the law that this world has set for us. the laws that define our reality and our limitations. even when you say we can look in different perspectives. without anything....we cant normally pass through a wall....and we cant fly, unless we use some sort of device....there is nothing that can defies the natural laws of this world....we cant just imagine that we can pass through walls and automatically pass through it , because we say it was an "illusion". and no...i do not believe in illusions....and the things we can do and cannot are not the same as the ones we should and shouldnt. we shouldn't steal....because its wrong to take things that are not yours....from that a law was made....because it seemed like the right thing to do. but we CANT fly without any sort of device....because we are not "designed" to be able to fly, and gravity would knock us back to the ground. gravity is not an illusion....its something natural....you cant free yourself from it under normal circumstances.....and you can't just think its an illusion and it'll go away. so you see most of the things we have are thruths and things we should do and shouldnt that people have come to accept....so in a way you can call them "illusions" but there are some things that no matter what we do, we can't change or switch perspectives of.
You say you can't pass through a wall and about limitations but the universe is unknown and you,i or even the worlds greatest scientist could know what a person is able to do with the universe.You say humans can't walk through walls but everything and anything is possible but illusions stop us.People say that if your internal organs are too severely damaged you can't survive and yet people have done it.People aren't supposed to be able to catch bullets but it's been done.People say it's impossible for a normal person to lift a car off someone and it's been done.According to what your saying that stuff is not possible and yet they've been done.Reality is as flexible and can be bent to the way a person feels.Everything has to do with the mind.The mind is not yet comprehended and it has been known to do amazing things to the people who have surpassed the illusion of limitation (telekynetics,Photosythisics,etc.).Once people can unlock the corridors of themselves they will be able to do anything.
actually......are you saying that humans can fly? and that if i throw away my principles, laws, restraints, and univesal thruths, i will be able to do away with these "illusions"? that to me seems fishy. we cannot fly by normal means....of course the human body is fairly amazing and we might be able to do things we would never imagine possible. but we cant go as far and say that everything is false...and that we can bend things in wichever way we desire. there are studious people who have made countless discoveries...about what we cannot hold and bend in our grasp ....and how the world we live in works....there is a limit....not a rule, not an obligation, but a limit... we can't say that the fact that the world is round is fake either, because its been proven, its round. we can't discard our beliefs, morals, and thruths, because those illusions, are the things created to shape our daily lives. if you believe that we can somehow transcend the common thought , and be able to do the impossible....then it would be a good exercise to practice....if you really believe this. then go....release the illusions that have been tying you, and pass through a wall....im not saying its possible, or not, but there is only one way to prove it. you can't defend any philosohy , and even more when there is the chance it might be wrong, if you don't try it for yourself. this is a nice little disscusion.
It isn't impossible to surpass the illusions but it is next to impossible to do and the best i could possibly do is think upon this and try and explain it to others.I am not going to detach from the illusions that make my life because that needs to be done slowly and can't be done straight away because as i said above in response to repliku that i could literally go insane if i didn't use my mind.My mind is the most powerful part of me because i actually pulled out of cronic depression last september.Don't mistake this for a religion before you think of it that way but it is a way of life, to think the way i and certain others do.It's a Philsophy and not a religion. I am not going to force my Philsophy on anyone.You can choose to except or not.It's your choice to believe what you believe.
Untrue. The laws of physics are all-binding and certainly not "illusions" in any sense of the word. Now reality, therein you will find the biggest illusion of them all. What we experience as reality is what our senses tell us, but how can we trust that to be accurate? Richard Dawkins commented on our sense of sight being like a Burka where the inch tall slit that we see the world through is visible light. Above and below us would be miles and miles of cloth representing the rest of the spectrum. Imagine how much of the universe, of reality, that we are missing because of our inadequate senses. There are other types of illusions though. Illusions of life that people build up to, as Repliku, make us feel safe. This can go as far as people descending into denial. If the illusion is broken the person is likely to become depressed or even suicidal as reality comes flooding in.
i never did think/say , it was a religion. you, really would go insane, the daily life we lead. the things that keep our feelings attached, is those illusions. because, we could say that love is only an illusion. but we don't, because we feel it. but , just one question. how do you know it is next to impossible? we can't be certain if its impossible or not....because its hard to believe that the world, its laws, its nature....can be bent. the scientists have proved that there are things that we cannot change, or if we follow your phylosophy , it might be nearly impossible. but, the thing is...the "illusions" that have been made , must play an important role in our lives. i want to hear others opinions on this.
Well, that could be true, in theory at least. Many people say that there is so much beyond what we see and know, but in the end, everything could really just be as it is now. People like to overstate and exaggerate many things. The human body can do many things, but people tend to live casual lives and forget what they can really do. And when a person does something on another level, some tend to look upon in awe, never thinking that they could do that themsselves, while others try to idolize the act, sometimes even using it as a goal. Overall, many things fit nicely into another thing like a puzzle. Mysteries that slowly unravel as techology and science chip away at the barrier over extraordinary things to reveal them as nothing more then another link in a chain that explains the unexplainable. Most take it at face value for its logical and sturdy exsistence, but some try to find holes in it and use that to try and create this unimaginable new ideal, thinking that there's always more out there. Either side, the coherent and the 'illogical', could be right, but I think with our ever-shrinking lifespans that we should think outside the box enough to progress, but not so much that we find ourselves in a place we cant recognize anymore.
If this is what you believe then this is what you believe.As you said at the bottom, the illusions in life itself are their for a sense of safety.Law if you think about it is apart of the illusion because you feel like you're safe when you know that their is laws and rules to protect you.Life itself is an Illusion and this Illusion is essentual for a happy life.
he was not talking about the laws created by men. he is speaking of the laws that make up this world like teorems(sp?) teorems, have been proven to be absolute, just like the "laws" of physics. and now youre going into a different ground. you say that Illusion is essentual for a happy life, but illusions are only there because we allow them enough space to be there. there are things wich are only illusions placed by our thoughts and morals....those can be called illusions, but the laws that make up this world...those seem to be absolute. but lets go the other way. we can say that we can somehow surpass these illusions, but these illusions themselves have set men to "raise the bar", just like numbers and math....since the beggining things had numerical value. we just had to find it....if 1=1 .....thats something that can't really be changed. but who knows , there might be something more as crono said, and maybe this way of life....might be half right....or completely right.
There are plenty of people out there who live with the full reality of their situation instead of deluding themselves. People with terminal illnesses who accept it and move on. They don't try to ignore it or pretend it's nothing important, they accept that it is a part of their lives and move on. And they are stronger for it. It's like children of over-protective parents, when they get out into the real world their falter and fail because their parents had brought them up in such a safe childhood and even through teenage years that when they leave this illusion (if they ever do >.>) their entire world is turned upside down and they can't cope. Same principle.
What i meant about the illusion is needed for a happy life is because thats the way the world has developed. Thats agreed but what you notice about children of over protective parents is that they go against their parents and develop at a faster rate then normal.I know alot of people like that.
okay....but still. the illusions people create in their minds can only be of that person itself. so we can say that each person is under a veil of their own illusions. wich means each, has their own, believes, morals, principles. now, these things can only take effect on ourselves, since the world doesnt have a collective counciousness. let me make this easier to understand: the world doesnt use its mind to create illusions around its perception. now that we conclude that , we can say that the natural laws of reality and the world(not the laws established by men for security and order) are absolute, and they cannot be changed. meaning that we cannot change the laws , but we can break from the veil of illusions and perceptions , such as personal crisis , ect. but still keeping in mind that the world it a constant and its natural laws absolute. we can't say gravity is only a perception of the mind. but we can say that a border , was made by men , and its only a perception that helps us divide the world. those are some examples, but there are plenty others.
We can not doing everything, we are human, we have limitations because we are human. Their is no illusion to walking through a wall, no creature on this Earth can move through solid objects, if you tried walking through the wall next to you, I don't believe that you can do it, for the simple law of Nature saying it isn't possible. And though the Universe is unkown to us, it doesn't mean basic facts are illusions like the wall and so on. Well like I mentioned in my last post, human laws don't mean nothing in real life, human laws are created to keep humans from doing idiotic things, like senseless killing, posession of weapons we can't handle, taking drugs that really mess up our system, etc. WE have for many, many generations been brought up to acknowledge and follow the laws of our country, to keep within its boundries so we do not endanger or dmage others or our own society. In truth they are illusions, because every human law can be broken, and committed, unlike natural law that we can not.
