358/2 Days Do you think Xion was really all that important?

Xion was important, she was to serve the same purpose as Roxas. Gather hearts.

cept she died.

so if u forget KH2 and the impacts she COULD have made in the other games, yes she is important.

 

Don't spoil me in the process >.<. Shh.

Nope, she doesn't. I didn't find anything appealing. In the beginning is giggle, nice, sweet, kind, the list of every positive aspect of a person. Then it all just goes down to angst to ignite pity. And I don't know which one I found worst. Kairi is one thing, but even Naminé is her complete opposite. Fragile, weak, pure, quiet, perceptive, calm, etc. Aqua is hard-driven, hard-working, tough, and perhaps the most tomboyish with a touch of femininity that she doesn't really show.

So, ignoring the chameleon, since I answered it further down, you're basically saying that, yes, she has Mary-Sue traits, but it's the fault of other characters because she takes it from them? Despite the fact that she didn't even really recollect all of their personalities in the beginning? Didn't know who they were? Nor in the middle? Or had full memories? You know that makes her even worse, right? You're just giving more fuel on her already lack of originality. Not all Kairi clones are shunned, despite the overproduction; that's also getting on my nerves. Naminé isn't in that league anymore. And Aqua...so far, everyone LOVES her. Kairi can be hated, yes, but it's apparently due to all her bad points they pick up. I rather a character be hated by their flaws, rather than their perfection. Xion just gave the wrong vibes, and ended with the wrong vibes once 358/2 Days came. She moved some, but not all. Xion was a risk, and it would have been better if she wasn't advertised the way she was. It's enough that the idea of a 14th member actually did come true.

I'm not going to get into Axel, because that's more of an opinionated view on his characterization (that can be argued), rather than anything factual. And the last thing I need is to get into Axel and his choices or motives into this.

Now for the fainting, yes, Roxas is draining her energy. But it's also vice-versa. Yet you never see Roxas being carried, held on someone's arms like that, saved, or even have moments like Xion with Riku, brushing her bangs. All by way of touching in some form. Admit it. If this was anything else, you would have hated the hell out of it and called out Mary Sue immediately. Or abandoned it altogether. Not even Kairi and Naminé get such treatment by three different bishounen men. Not that this is a specific problem for me, but I don't blame others if this is a factor.

The difference is that if Xion doesn't defeat said lizard like she was suppose to, her ass is in trouble, and it will be another failure of a mission. And, well, with Saïx being the one who oversees them, look how he treated her once she did fail (more so if he got news that she can't use the Keyblade). I'm sure if she had it easy, she would have left it alone. But then that would make her a Demyx. Laziness, or abandonment of responsibilities. And of course, we couldn't have that. That's a flaw. Impossible.

The part with Axel was also one of those die and die choices. She was ready to return to Sora, and she couldn't stay because she could place Roxas in danger otherwise. It upset her, but it had to be done. She couldn't go back now.

Kairi did these things when she didn't need to. Yeah, it's fine when you don't want to stay home anymore and you're tired of waiting. Admirable, maybe. It's another when you jump into a dark portal without having any idea where you are going, without thinking, and without anything to protect yourself with. And, lo and behold, she got captured. Twice >.>.

Yes, Xion was created to be pitied. That's undeniable. You even said it - there might have been an intention.

Like I stated, the other characters had their tales as well, but it wasn't like it was the whole point of a story. Nor did their tales take over the plot, and extended the wangst over who knows how many hours was 358/2 Days. It wasn't in your face. Yes, you felt for the characters. They have to go through a lot of tribulations. But not only was it not in the forefront, considering they had limited screen time, they also had flaws enough to balance it and not only be there to gain sympathy. Roxas's actions can be seen as negative; throwing, hitting, and attacking things. Riku Replica has a long list that I'm not going to even bother with. Naminé herself was somewhat selfish, and was at first met with a lot of bashing. Or so I'm told. Her and Roxas had a bittersweet end, but better than anyone's too. Riku Replica had to die, yet, he did many wrong things. It was sort of passive. It was like, "here, you have these characters who have their own struggles to tell". It's up to you to decide whether it was truly sad. The fan reaction wasn't that bad either.

Xion...she was written just so they can bash us over the head that she's suppose to be this tortured, tragic angel that we should feel heavily for. Look at the italics: should. Not choose. It's like if I didn't agree with the "poor Xion" quote in the game, I was heartless. Or I was suppose to feel sorry for her, and nod my head, saying, "yes, yes, poor Xion T_T".

To be honest, it is too hopeful :/. There's no redemption in my eyes any longer. It's over, it's done with, the game is out, and I had enough time to gather my opinions for four months. If your reason to defend her is to get me to like Xion, or put her above a level than what she is to me now, you're fighting a losing battle. We'll be going in circles for nothing, and if that's the case, it's better to end it before it starts. Only a miracle can happen by now.

Most of this is explained below as to what Roxas alone holds in importance to this. So I'm not going to answer most of what I already responded to, just to save any repetitiveness. To give a reply, though, Xion didn't need to be a main plan. Once Roxas was in their hands, that should have been it, truthfully. And it's not like Xion did anything contrasting to what he did to gain any favors. After all, Sora's memories leaked to Roxas first. Xion was just there to take it from him after, something that's confirmed by those who worked on it, and even Xion herself: "Roxas, you have given me so many memories..." in the final clock tower scene. See? Tacked. On. Roxas gets them, but Xion just happens to be there to not let him keep it so she can have something to do. I'm sure that if the game called for it, he could have collected a lot of Hearts to satisfy without needing "two to speed it up" to excuse Xion in. I'm sure that if the game called it, Roxas's existence would have been the only one to be their puppet and reign all the side effects. However, for certain purposes to create 358/2 Days, that smelled of fanservice, and is fanservice from the get-go, it didn't turn out to be that way. Does that mean that it was needed? No.

In other words, yes, I'm saying that 358/2 Days didn't need to be made in itself. In reality, it could've been anything that occurred in that year instead of what it was chosen to be. Things left unanswered could have easy shrugs, like I, a fan, even did in a few seconds (or admitted in an interview, because Nomura loves to keep important stuff that wasn't in the game, only for him to later solve the confusion) and we could have moved on. In the end, even Xemnas only needed one wielder and he didn't care who it was. Having both wasn't that urgent, or essential. As long as he had one.

In fact, 358/2 Days is full of "what if"s. I don't see what "genius" of the Organization needs to be shown. Riku Replica took care of the cloning process and mechanics, the castle itself served as a visual of high tech, and then the constant computers. For pete's sakes, Xemnas walking into the Room Of Sleep with all the secret passages of awesomeness was better than anything we saw in Days (let's not forget the places in KH2: FM+, where you can fight the Organization members). And in the novels, they also had a machine that allowed Axel to go into Data Twilight Town. Which is how they broke in. Wished that could have been in KH2. Still, showing the first six as a group of scientists is no excuse or reason. It got the point across all throughout the series. Starting even in KH1 with the artificial Heartless.

Credit is given when it's due, that's true.

But not here. And not for Xion.

With Xion not even existing, Riku would still have gone on Diz's orders to capture Roxas, right? Or wrong? Like I said, he was the main key no matter how you proceed to view it. I haven't read that Diz had originally set up the false Twilight Town to experiment with transforming hearts into data, so I don't know. But, even if it was true, Diz obviously had planned ahead to use Roxas, or else, it wouldn't have been Twilight Town. It was created to be that world for that purpose. The idea was implemented way before Xion's death, I'm positive. And believe it or not, it wasn't that specifically that bothered me. It was Xion, interrupting the man to man battle with her voice (because, everything in this game has to have her in it somehow), and asking for Riku to stop Roxas.

That's where the sound of a record scratching rattled my head, and made me say, "WTF". This is mere proof that they desperately tried - and keyword, tried, to make her have some semblance of importance. Except it utterly failed. Why?

*sarcasm mode*
OF COURSE. Why didn't I think of THAT before? Riku was already in the skyscraper, enjoying the wind suspiciously in TWTNW to have tea and cookies with Roxas, obviously waiting for Xion to get into his mind and tell him what to do, I'm so sure. Oh, oh! AND WHY DOES IT HAVE TO END THERE? She also magically told Diz to build the Data Twilight Town so we can put the unconscious Roxas in there, and left Naminé a message that she's suppose to erase all his memories of the time in the Organization. This was all her doing. OMG. OH WOW. Holy. No waaaai 8D.
*sarcasm mode ends*

Ridiculous. Completely Ridiculous.

It doesn't even have to be Roxas wanting to destroy KH (that walk to the castle could have been a simple day, for all you know. And of course, the other explanation I gave in my first response to this thread). You're only giving other options that could have been done to the already possible ones.

The reason it took Sora long to awaken (as it was originally said anyway) is because Roxas wasn't with him, and his other self was missing, taking half his power and probably other necessities that prevented him from progressing. That's a real high super plan of never getting Sora to wake up for the Organization, if you ask me. Especially since he didn't until Roxas did return to him (again). For the second time in saying this, when Xion died, Sora didn't get better. Remained the same. Nothing changed. Now it's a different ball game altogether when it all rests on Roxas. If you want to take the jab at him able to be captured earlier, then Xion could have been captured earlier as well. So why did Diz, or anyone else, for that matter, waited that long? It's answered in the game, so I don't want to get into this. Things weren't revealed to Diz until near the end, I believe, and how crucial it was. But they never acted until the last minute despite the "importance". Take Xion out, and just leave Roxas to take that place, and that more or less solves it. There's nothing that Xion could do that others couldn't have done for her.

The thing is: they weren't "plot holes" at all. Just things that weren't expanded upon. Once more, simple explanations, like it being Sora or Ventus for dual wielding, could have been done instead of the complete problems and additions we were given that turned out to be for naught in the end anyway. Rounded up in a filler game. It was such a complication, that Xion's existence had to be erased out of everyone, not even one, EVERYONE, so it doesn't create a real plot hole in KH2 due to the fact that there was never a whiff of any "14th" at all.

If we take Roxas completely out of the equation, you can take the Nobodies, Dusks, Naminé, and even the Organization out of the equation considering they share the exact same origins. Which makes for a very boring game, and what would have been the missed chance for colorful characters like the members to appear. Xion doesn't constitute this. She doesn't control the series, or has a big part in the whole spectrum like the idea of Nobodies do <--- Roxas is only a minimal section, or better, a product, of that idea. Hence, justifiable. Take those out, and you only still have KH1. Which is where the fault lies. The fact that you can completely erase Xion and it wouldn't effect anything like this speaks for itself. And while I appreciate Riku Replica, he didn't do anything outside of CoM either and wasn't really that important.

Not really. 358/2 Days, the overall plot, was not in any way circumstantial enough to be brought up. It doesn't stem out of that specific game, and it doesn't do anything in the long run, especially once the whole thing is forgotten by everyone and their mother. All for the explanation that didn't even need an explanation in the first place of that sort of level. Sora's problem of merging with Roxas (being his other half), so he can complete his memory progression was fine. They made it complicated for no reason except to create a side game for the very thing that wasn't a big deal. That's the deal breaker: they had a simple reason, only to jumble it up even more.

BBS, on the other hand, I can at least say that it builds up everything for the next main game, or other future titles to leave more mysteries to be resolved, while some answered of previous games. That's the thing: there were certain information missing. For all its convolution, it doesn't entirely focus on "clones" at all. It also at least has origins with Xehanort's past and the Ansem Reports, finally revealing what had occurred in the past that was hinted of. Nomura even stated that it would have been a main game if it wasn't for the fact that Sora isn't the main character.

And...Roxas in KH2 just appeared in the tutorial and didn't even make a presence again until the end of the game. Which in itself was short. If that was raking a character in for money, that was a fail. KH2 wasn't about Roxas. He was minimal, at best. If Roxas didn't exist, you would still have the sequel in your hands no matter what it turned out to be. To top it of, the Organization, rather, the existence of Nobodies, were already introduced in CoM before this, and in Deep Dive before that one. And they were given birth on the thought that when you turn into a Heartless "what happens to your body and soul?". It isn't really convoluted.

I...don't know where you are getting this from. Try to read what I'm actually trying to say and what it's actually there. I'm not talking about that scene. It's obvious no one recalls Xion sooner or later. I'm talking about KH2 when Roxas's memories are completely gone when in data Twilight Town, and he slowly gets them back to remember Axel as his tutorial ends and re-imagine the clock tower scene with the two of them. Roxas practically understood, without the memories of Xion, why he left the Organization. Which was my point. He doesn't appear to think anything's missing, or a huge part is questionable as to the reason of why he turned coat. Thus, makes you wonder just how much Xion had in this situation at all.

And for the record, you're wrong. Riku had nothing to do with the destruction of Xion's memories, because if you didn't notice, it was affecting him too, slowly. Naminé herself said that once Xion disappears, being a memory replica, everything goes with her. It was automatic.

I don't care if she's a clone. I just don't think she did anything worth of her being there.

No. While those are good reasons, though not for my standing, I dislike her for being nothing, but a plot device. Useless, pointless. Forced, shoved, and unneeded. Unlike Aqua, she didn't stand out, and she wasn't different. It's not unnatural for anyone to hate or dislike a character, nor am I the only one of this opinion. So I don't know why you think I have to "misjudge" her or you have to suspect why.

The only interesting thing Xion has done is split the fandom in half concerning the hit or miss with her. And that's outside the game.

 

i feel she was kind of important for filling all those plot holes in KH2. i felt that those plot holes should have been filled in the first place but at least stuff is finally explained.

 

Those weren't plot holes.

That's a plot hole.

What happened in the Organization or what happened with Roxas never did this. They just weren't completely seen or explained. Not that it was at all really difficult. The scenes they did manage to project showed Roxas's reason for leaving the Organization "Why do I have the Keyblade? I have to know", Riku's fight and capturing of Roxas under Diz's orders, and how he got to Data Twilight Town. The only thing that wasn't focused on was dual wielding, and that in itself wasn't much considering the connections Roxas has.

 

I completely agree with you about that fact that she a version of Kairi. Despite the fact that was probably intentionally, they could've changed her around even more to make her at least somewhat original. Or give her a flaw. I think that many people agree that Xion is a Mary Sue, and I think she's also a worse than Kairi because Kairi was at least original (to some extent). Xion was a complete copy that served the almost exact same purposes as Kairi in Kingdom Hearts, except she wasn't needed at all because Kairi was there. Xion was kind of redundant.

Really, she had one of the most insignificant non-existences in the game.

 

She really...wasn't. I mean, everything made perfect in KH2 and we'd never even thought of the name Xion, didn't it? So she didn't have to be a character, and the story would've been fine.

I adore Kairi. I adore Namine. Xion basically, in personality, is Kairi mixed with COM-Namine, and really, I would've much preferred to see them (in Namine's case, see her more) than watch a whole game about Xion. On the other hand, Kairi's rash and hopes and dreams with all her heart and Namine tries so hard and never backs down from what she thinks is right and Xion...didn't do any of that.

She was pathetic for most of the game, and while I realize that's because her life force was being drained, I just couldn't buy her as anything remotely related to Sora, Kairi, or Roxas because she was so pitiful.

I don't know what I'm trying to say. I liked Xion, but there was simply no use in her being there.

Her theme is awesome, though.

 

Personally, I liked Xion.

She might not have been "important" in terms of the whole storyline, but she is one of the more memorable. Because of her, I know why Roxas has two Keyblades while Sora has one; I appreciated Roxas and Axel more (Roxas was kinda dry in KH2, and I never got to see enough of Axel).

I liked having her on my missions in 358/2 Days, and she was much more likable than some of the other members (Demyx, Saix, Xigbar to name a few).

 

Guess she just fleshed out Roxas' story while he was at the organisation, as keeping it with exactly the same people would probably annoy people as they have seen them all before. Also her emotional effects on Roxas and co. actually lead to many of the set pieces of the kingdom hearts games, so I think she was important but not too much

 

I agree. Besides, she helped collect all those hearts and is the reason why it took a whole year for Sora to wake up (without her we'd still be playing kh1 sora). Right?

 

You wanna know why they put Xion in Days?
Because Nomura probably felt like putting a new mysterious character in it, that would get attention by the fans so they can speculate and make the game a bit more mysterious.
Also without her, Days probably would have been more boring than it already, imo, was.

Or at least that I what's I think.

So no, not really significant, rather more to add something new.

 

Which wasn't a big deal in the overall aspect of the game. And how could this not be explained simply by Sora or Ventus rather than a nonsensical idea of a clone full of memories who changes sex half the time?

And Sora is capable of dual wielding now without Drive Forms. Anything Roxas can do, he can. And vice-versa.

And yet, when she died, nothing changed until Roxas started to come in the picture and was thrown into Data Twilight Town. The memories leaked to Roxas first, and then after to her. If it wasn't Xion, it would be Roxas. So, again, nothing that can't be explained.

And if she did help collect all those Hearts, I wonder how Xemnas managed to accomplish solely with Roxas, since, you know, she didn't exist before in the series? They didn't need two Keyblade wielders, that was just an excuse to tack her on, more or less.

 

I liked Xion, I just don't think she made a huge impact on the story.

 

Right, this is pretty long, so I'm putting it in spoilers.

Spoiler

I'm gonna note that I always thought it was weird in KHII for Roxas to just up and leave one day in search of Sora, and then completely ignore Axel when the guy tried to stop him. For such a great friendship (built without hearts, yes, but Axel certainly fared well without one) it fell apart way too easily. And Deep Dive as well didn't make sense because he came back. Why come back? He was looking for Sora. Without answers for that, the event that triggered the plot made no sense and KHII became just fun, but nonsensical in the worst sense.

Then along comes Xion - this little vision of loveliness who gets Roxas all worked up about her... who then turned out to be an unwilling soul-sucking monster designed to swallow up Roxas and become the perfect warrior. And then Nomura takes the perception of what a Mary Sue is and literally applies it to the character.

Roxas is caught up in his little fantasy (we'll echo the boy in my dreams together and have a happy ending), and Axel doesn't want to break his little not-heart, so he keeps secrets... until Xion runs off to try and give herself to a better cause instead of working for the Oestrogen Brigade Bait, because she (unlike millions of fangirls) has realised that yes, the good majority of the Organisation is evil, no, they are not just misunderstood, and that the world would be a better place if Sora was there instead of her. The Superior maliciously tells everybody what she is: a deliberate Sue, designed only to help them take over the world and be their mindless, all-conquering slave. A faceless doll who thought she had her own identity when she was even less than nothing. She is now a danger to the Organisation (or, if you want to read the subtext, to canon) and must be destroyed for the sake of their plan (and the plot).

Roxas is, obviously, ticked at Axel. After all, friends are meant to tell the truth, because as Sora he thinks that's how the world works. Axel, meanwhile, doesn't know how to react when things blow up in his face because normally everything works out perfectly for him - but Nobodies who pretend they really do have hearts with such conviction that it has to be right are different and unpredictable, and he can't stop Roxas from running away. (There's also the fact that not everything he wants is something that everybody else wants - Roxas doesn't want the truth, he just wants to have friends. A lack of sympathy means Axel can't know that until it's too late.)

At that point, Roxas going makes sense to me. Roxas is basically Sora. Sora views Kairi as perfect and is pretty much right about her - a Princess of Heart, who always had feelings for him, and her flaws aren't debilitating. Roxas has somebody like Kairi who he views as perfect too. It turns out she isn't. At the same time he's remembering Sora getting his perfect girl. It makes him angrier than anything - Why should this guy get everything I don't!? What's the point of these visions!? If Sora is related to Xion... then he'll know the answers!

And then there's destroying her - facing the truth. She is going to kill you if she survives, but if she dies, things can get back on track. The world can be returned to the way it was always meant to be. Roxas kills her, and she hammers into him the things he (and the audience) really needed to realise in the first place. Roxas takes her words with him and goes to carry out his revenge on the Organisation. This is why he went back for Deep Dive.

Unfortunately, memories start slipping away. To the person playing the game, that's pretty much okay: we need Roxas to forget about her and concentrate on him goal; it's the only thing that's important. Besides, the girl was a tragic but horrible creature. In the end, she deserves to be nothing to him, and grief can't swallow you up forever. The problematic thing about wiping this girl from his mental history is that she just happens to be Roxas' current reason for living. He ends up lost fighting Riku without a purpose other than some kind of score count he can barely remember and the basic idea of Organisation = bad, Keyblade to the head = good... and loses his fight.

Somehow a cruel satire on Mary Sue becomes a legitimate reason for both why Roxas left and why he lost... or at least it does in this mind. And if neither of those events had happened, Sora wouldn't be awake at all, and Kingdom Hearts II wouldn't have happened.

(By the way, I've been told you have to treat your characters as tools to move the plot along. If you get too attached, they warp into Mary-Sues.)

 

Is Xion all that important to the series? I think not. Is she important to 358/2? Yea... She's important because the game kinda revolved around why she existed and why she could weild a keyblade (or at least that was the underlying question in everybody's mind). We all knew she wasn't Sora's Nobody so why she had a keyblade was unknown. Sure, her existence gave us the answer as to why Roxas wields two keyblades and Sora wields one but does that really matter? Nope. Not in my mind. Maybe it kinda matters but still. Plus I just did not like Xion; I found her dry and boring. So yea, she's perfect yet she's not real. So freaking what. I wish they would have given her some personality that would make her a more likable asset to the series. I mean she had to compete with Roxas and Axel, two of my favorite characters. In the end I'm glad to know what happened to Roxas in his organization days, Xion just needed more to her. Days would have been more boring without her (I mean I didn't think it was boring until I found out what she really was).

 

Xion was an afterthought. She didn't really affect anything after Days because she was forgotten. Since Days came AFTER KHII, there was no other way to include her. I think that she was actually a very good character under the circumstances, that she had to get in, make a splash, and then leave everything the way it was when she came.

So significance relevant to Days? Yes. To the rest of the series? No, she couldn't, not without creating a plot hole. Still a good character in my opinion. :3

 

She had a bit of importance, she was the reason sora didn't wake up in a year, that roxas has two keyblades and that roxas fought riku.

 

Now, i like the series kh as much as anyone on here, but i kinda think, in my opinion, it was a fluke. like a total mistake how it turned out, even though Nomura figured a way for it to seem like thats how he planed the story to go, i rly feel that he kinda messed up khI and khII and somehow he figured a way to cover up his mistakes with Days and Chain of Memories. It turned out to be a great serise, but if you notice, Chain and Days didnt turn out as well as khI and KhII.

 

SPOILER WARNING!!!


Nope. I don't think she was the least bit important.

Okay... maybe SOME, but very little. I have been wondering why in the world would Nomura put in a character that in the end, would end up being forgotten or erased from existence. At least in Organization 13 when they faded away, they weren't forgotten... (Somewhat????)

 

she was important in my opinion. i mean that explains why Roxas really doesn't remember much about being in the Org. and i know that the little that he did remember was wiped from his memory be Diz but still. Plus Xion is to Rxas as Kairi is to Sora. I mean who else in Org. XIII is he gonna have a love interest in? Larxene? *shivers*

 

Although her importance is really only to explain a few things about Roxas, I like her character a lot and Days really wouldn't work as well without her. And lets forget that according to Coded and BBS

Spoiler

It won't be the last we see of her.