Kingdom Hearts II Do Nobodies Age?

Actually all of the characters look different from CoM to KH2 because the artwork is different. Namine to me looks pretty much the same including the same hair style, except her body is more long as aren't others. She was one of the ones that hardly changed but to make her less 'chibi' sort of looking.

 

So, then what about Roxas?
Roxas had no memories of Sora, Ven, no one, nothing. If Nobodies are composed of darkness, an element, strength of will, and memories, why does Roxas have a body without memories? Not only that, he looks just like Ven. Even if Sora magically had memories of someone he might have met when he was 4 years old, Roxas didn't. How is that Roxas' nonexistent memories made him look just like Ven?
Namine also had no memories, for that matter.
And if they don't have their original bodies, what happened to them? They were just destroyed? And what about Ansem (Heartless)? Xehanort said he cast off his body, which meant Ansem didn't have a body, right? (At least, didn't someone say something like that...?) That's why Ansem possessed Riku, right?
So, Ansem didn't have a body. Apparently, neither did Xemnas. If Ansem's body still existed, why didn't he possess it? If because it was destroyed, how?

Sora didn't bleed either. No one did. I don't think there's enough evidence to say either way, but that is a whole other argument and irrelevant at the moment.

That's right. But... Xehanort ceased to exist 9 years before KH1, around the time Hollow Bastion fell... Ansem and Xemnas took his place... So it's not possible for Xehanort to have gotten any older. Ansem and Xemnas, on the other hand, look older than Xehanort, in my opinion.

How's it clear what or how much knowledge Ienzo had?

He could have been extremely good in at least one subject; he could already have been through college or higher in the one subject he was good in. (That subject being something like science or math or something.) He wasn't old enough to have been completely through college, of course.

Ansem said he was "spurred on" by Ienzo. "Spurred on" means "encouraged" or "gave incentive." The word doesn't imply having been coerced or persuaded or talked into. Therefore, the one thing said specifically about Ienzo doesn't say anything about his intellect or argumentative skills.

Ienzo wasn't mentioned as one of the top scientists. Just as one of the ones who followed Xehanort (according to Ansem) and one of the scientists doing the work with 5 others.

We don't know how brilliant Ienzo was... Must have been pretty brilliant, of course, certainly more than a high school education, but not necessarily in all subjects. Maybe only in science or math or whatever Ansem accepted him for.

No one ever said he was a scientist legitimately. Maybe that's why he was apprenticed to someone? Instead of credentials, maybe in the universe of Kingdom Hearts, you're apprenticed to someone instead.

Cool. Do you think you could find a source for that?

Erm... BBC?

I agree. Braig, at least, should have a part in BBS (since Xigbar seemed to know so much about the past Keybearers). And if they're going to show Braig, and possibly Even, there'd be no better time to show the other apprentices.

 

It may be possible since Roxas was born when in kh1 and he does look just as old as Sora in kh2

 

Roxas seems to be what remains of Ven. Also he had ties to the Keyblade. He did not remember much because Sora's memory mostly stayed with Sora when he was healed back from being a Shadow. However, if Ven is a part of Sora from BBS, it stands to hold true that this would be the form Roxas would take since Ven would have at one time had a strong Heart. Basically, Roxas was an unusual Nobody because he has some clear connection to Ven as well as Sora and I think we have to wait for BBS to come out to get more information on him other than what is already known. He did get a small portion of Sora's memories, such as the ability to fight and such, and we can surmise that Sora has a strong Heart and that Ven did, so in the end, it makes the formula work, albeit stretching it some.

Sora also did not have wafts of black darkness smoke going out from him and didn't disappear when he died. Sora isn't going to 'bleed' because of the way that censorship works and the game would be rated Mature otherwise. However, he could be knocked out cold etc and did not disappear as the Nobodies do. He also had no signs of dissipating as they did.

Xehanort = Ansem's student who tossed himself into Darkness, had no memories, wrote false Ansem reports etc. He became Xemnas. Xemnas looks just like the portrait in Ansem's study. Xehanort may not be this character's real name, but it was all he could remember was the name, even if it was not him. Therefore it is what Ansem and others called him.
Xehanort's Heartless = the one who addressed himself as Ansem and was separated from Xehanort and who Sora had to fight in KH.
Master Xehanort - is the old guy back in BBS that we are going to learn more about who apparently fell to Darkness and caused a war. What corrupted him, we do not know and will have to see.

I did that out so you could see who I meant because I am not sure you understood what I was saying.

It is strongly implied that Ienzo was a genius and scientist in his own right. He was the youngest out of Ansem's apprentices but Ansem held him in sincere regard. Again, I ask who would listen to someone who was just a person with a high school education coaxing them to study on a topic as complex as this in a scientific way? I doubt Ansem would have regarded his opinion so much and also why was Ienzo even part of the project at all if he did not have the intellect to be able to carry out experimentation? It does not make sense if he was not educated enough to do so or intuitive.

You are right. No one totally declares him as a genius but it seems by his own name in the Org as the Cloaked Schemer, the fact he likes puzzles, he obviously reads and studies a lot, his book is a lexicon (which most people don't even know what a lexicon is) and he uses strategies against opponents that are all having to deal with outsmarting them, it seems apparent he was of higher intellect. Also, Vexen did acts that show he did hold some regard to Zexion's intellect, to include trying to get Zexion to aid him in learning more about what Xemnas was doing when he went off. Also, Vexen seemed to have a competition against Zexion in a way when challenged and was harsh enough to merit Lexaeus telling him to stop. When Vexen was dealing with Sora and all, Zexion turned his focuses on other things with Lexaeus and both did not seem to regard Vexen that highly. There are just some things like this that push one to believe Zexion was extremely intellectual and probably knew many things that made him rather valuable to Xemnas and the Organization. Otherwise, if he was just some high school leveled person, I doubt that he'd have been involved with the top other members of the Org and would have been more of a gopher like Demyx than what he was.

There's no solid proof, but it seems these hints are as much as we are getting and I suppose we can take it how we want to for each member of the Org because none of the characters are so well explained. The titles of the characters though do give info about them and it seemed that other than some of the later members, all of the top members were very intellectual and had to be.

I will try to. I can't for the life of me remember where I read that but it was something with Nomura declaring it. It seems at times I have a very selective eidetic memory and recall information I read but not where the heck it came from.

I am pretty sure Nomura stated that Braig was rather important and that Xigbar had a history with the Keybladers. It would be nice to see the other apprentices as well, like you said. It would really answer this question ultimately as well as let us get a glimpse of what they were all really like prior to becoming Nobodies, which of course would be great to know. Here's to hoping!

 

Alright. So, then what about Namine? She didn't remember anything about Kairi, did she? (I don't think she did, at least....) How's that possible? She also didn't have an element like those in the Org., but I suppose her powers over Sora's memories may make up for that....

Right. You said Nobodies don't bleed, so I added in my own two cents....

I couldn't tell if you were talking about Xehanort or Xehanort's Heartless....

Nothing about Ienzo was strongly implied, unless I missed an interview somewhere, but that's still a good guess, I suppose.

I didn't mean to say that Ienzo only could have had an high school education, it was just an example.

What if Ienzo was extremely talented in the field of science? Talented enough and educated enough in science to be on par with (or even smarter than) Ansem's other apprentices? And what if he was also especially inventive or clever or fast or skilled or, in other words, an asset in some way to Ansem and his other apprentices?

Regardless, for whatever reason, Ansem accepted Ienzo as his apprentice. I would think that meant that Ansem respected Ienzo's abilities and knew Ienzo could greatly help him. Ienzo was young, whether he was 16 or 7. Since he was so young, Ansem must have trusted him , recognize his potential, and valued his opinion a great deal to allow him to be one of his apprentices at all. It would be that case no matter if he was 16 or 7 years old. Therefore, the fact that Ansem built the lab on his suggestion means nothing.

Never tried to deny that Ienzo was intelligent and I never tried to say he only could have had a high school education. Obviously, in at least one subject, he must have been a genius. In all other subjects, who knows? Who cares?

For the record, Zexion had 9 years to study, research, experiment, learn, do pretty much whatever he wanted. If Nobodies do age, he would also have been older. Zexion may not totally speak for Ienzo.

Yeah. I agree. I'm not denying that the Org. members and Ansem's apprentices had to be intelligent.

We can only hope. ^^ It'd really be nice to see them all.


Apologies for resuscitating the thread.

 

You have your points. I guess we'll hopefully find out more on them if Even and Xigbar etc look the same age nearly as they do later. I still don't think they age by the nature of what they are.

Namine and Roxas are exceptions. Roxas I am pretty sure was Ven's form. As for Namine, she did seem to be more slender than Kairi and a bit younger in appearance in some ways but that's just me perhaps. Also, again, I think the fact that Kairi's heart was only technically out of her own body and Sora's for a bit is why she didn't have a memory of things, same as Roxas, which Ansem reports did touch on as to why Roxas didn't have a memory. I don't know exactly why DiZ didn't explain more about Namine but it was probably to keep the mystery up about her.

 

I don't think they do either, because Ansem having a 7-year-old apprentice is hard for me to believe. Hopefully, we'll find out.

I agree. I thought DiZ explained more about Namine than he did about Roxas, personally.

 

Yes, they do. If you remember Sora became a heartless at 14 but in KH2 Roxas is 15 and obviously he was 14 when he became a nobody.

 

Roxas looks just like Ven in BBS. So we do not know if he 'aged' at all while being separated from Sora. Also, I can think of an excuse even if Namine and Roxas -did- age and the other Nobodies didn't, which would be they had 'real' selves too, so it could affect them. I do think though that in BBS, Ven is actually 15.

 

Good theory, but i think nobody's just take on the age and experience of there somebody's XD.

 

Kiwise appears to be hellbent on the idea that Ienzo was possibly 7 or 8 years old when he was apprenticed. However this seems flawed in given his Nobody's appearance he seems to be in his early twenties. Also considering the other apprentices ages, anything below late 20s early 30s would be considered "the youngest of them all". (Zexion also has a lower pitched voice which suggests he has already gone through the magic known as puberty.)

Anyway, I believe Nobody's are incapable of aging just as they do not seem to require many other things to really "survive". They have no need for sleep, food, water or many other necessities, so why would they age? Also I believe Xemnas may have hinted at how Nobodies do not age with his "We must be eternal" something to that ilk, he wouldn't say it if he could observe his fellow Nobodies aging. I know someone will argue "but he didn't mean it in that context" to those I ask, why else would he say it? He doesn't lie, he doesn't need to. And as Repliku said, Xemnas doesn't seem to have aged at all.

Namine and Roxas are exceptions because their counterparts are still alive as well as other variables, Namine is their "pure Nobody" and Roxas is probably some fragment of Ven.

I also think it's funny that people are pointing out the differences between Xemnas, his Heartless and Xehanort concerning age, they have tweaked hair color, skin color and some other minor tweaks, as someone said, because their Nobody halves are just made up of their own memories, that probably has something to do with how they appear.

Personally I would like to see the Original Six and their selves.

PS: There isn't really anything to gain out of this discussion as all of the human Nobodies (as far as we know) are all dead, therefore even if they could age it wouldn't matter as they are fully destroyed at this point in time. (lol)

 

Actually I believe Zexion is played by the same person who did Light Yagami's voice from death note (or is that riku? I know for sure that its riku...could it be both? ah, im rambling). when death note began, light was 17 years old and then it progressed from their into college until he was about 24...I'd put my bets on the fact that Zexion is in the range of 17-20.

axel is still alive and so is xehanort/xemnas/ansem...

 

For the first part I have no idea if you are agreeing with me guessing his age or suggesting lowering the bar for his theoretical age, whichever, he APPEARS to be in his early 20s and age-wise it seems the most safe bet in my opinion. Also consider the person who does the voice, I assure you that they are not in their early 20s yet still voice characters who may be younger than they are.

As for that last comment, I kindly request proof that both are still alive (actually either) in the future, preferably from Nomura's mouth (a link to the article as well). Just because he was content does not make dissolving into thin air any less not-gone, also consider the Organization's "tomb room."

Roxas's was the only one lit, he is a Nobody and he is still 'alive' therefore his tombstone was still blue, and Xemnas's which is missing would also be blue as he had not been defeated yet, everyone else's however were RED, and as you killed them they would turn from blue (alive) to red (dead). Axel's was red, as were ten others by the time you "clear" the room.

 

I always thought as Zexion to be 18 or 19, somewhere close. From Nomura's artwork, you could tell he's being dropped off as still being on his late teens. As for Nobodies aging, I think they do not. But that, along whether they bleed or how they can eat, not to mention their names, seem to be something Nomura doesn't want to explain, and nobody asks. Maybe when 358/2 gets out, we might have more answers.

You won't find it in a Nomura interview, at least Axel's returning back to his original form, because that's only in the Kingdom Hearts 2 Novels (not manga), where Naminé confirms that he returned to his real self. The reason for this, and I think this is the Nomura interview you're looking for, is because:

If you want the link, just ask.

Basically, to summarize, when you kill a Heartless, the heart that is release goes into a state of suspension, and if the Nobody is destroyed after, you can return back to your orignal self. However, if the Nobody is killed first before the Heartless, it depends on chance whether you return or not, so this is a vague situation then if you're not lucky.

Axel was confirmed of this in the Kingdom Hearts 2 Novels from those who have read. Is being translated by some members in Livejournal, specifically turkish_delight, and if you want to check it out, I'll give you links to that as well. They haven't reached to that point though, so you might have to wait.

As for Xemnas/Ansem, think about it. We killed his Heartless in KH, then his Nobody in KH2. Just add two and two together, and it makes sense. Xehanort is the main vilain of the series, and I wouldn't doubt there won't be one last epic battle with him to end it.

 

It would be lovely if he clarified these things, but then again, I'm not expecting any mindblowing revelations from 358/2.

The KH Novels are no more canon than the manga , or shall we consider those canon too despite some of the differences between the two. Unless Nomura happens to be the author of the novels- is he? If he is I retract the statement of it not being canon, if he is NOT the author of the novels then no, it is not canon at all.

Given the wondering of how their Nobodies can exist and then their Heartless are not special (or very powerful) at all (if you pull the "well the naturals are limited" I tell you to refer back to KH1's inventory of Heartless as well as the scant couple in KH2), it's a wonder if Axel's Heartless has even been met or liberated yet. (At least on Sora's side) Out of curiosity Why is there a spelling error in something you quoted? Where did you get the rest of the report from? And yes I did ask for a link thank you.

As for that Xehanort/Ansem comment, you needn't tell me something so obvious about the main "villain", and I want you to think about how SPECIAL he was and how much time will elapse before he is possibly/theoretically fought again, especially with the Terra = Xehanort theories flying about (also I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nomura does the "three parts make up a person" and we end up fighting the 3rd part of Xehanort that his floating around). He also happens to be the MAIN ANTAGONIST, Axel was a side-character at best. Does the fact Axel technically suicided make a difference? Xemnas/Xehanort's Heartless were both 'killed' by the keyblade, consider that in your equation as well.

Actually, if their Nobodies only need to be "defeated" consider the 3 apprentices that were killed in Castle Oblivion (Lexaeus, Vexen and Zexion) that did NOT RETURN to Hollow Bastion/Radiant Garden, they got half a year to return after their Nobodies were killed, so why didn't they? Even if the "by chance" rule is true, at least one of them should have returned and they did not, hence why I heavily doubt Axel is still alive. However for Xehanort/Xemnas, refer to what I said earlier about him being special because of his antagonist privileges.

 

Technically Xehanort's Heartless was not -killed- by Sora. It was killed by Riku. Riku didn't have a Keyblade. He had Soul Eater. However, since the battle was done as a way of determining who would 'rule' over Riku's body, Riku technically had to fight Xehanort's Heartless and vanquish it. After he did so, he said that he still felt the Darkness within and had to come to accept it and this is why he also was later stuck in the form for a while.

Xehanort's Heartless though is one thing that bugs me about Xemnas. Now, if Xemnas had wanted to go back to being 'whole' why did he pay so much attention to Sora and -none- to Riku? It does lend me to think that the Heartless may have been the Apprentice of Master Xehanort in the past instead of Xemnas's...which his Heart may have been the Enigmatic Warrior which unlocks to fight after defeating Xemnas with Sora the first time.

Anywhoo, I sidetrack, but just wanted to say that Xehanort's Heartless was defeated by a Keyblade but not vanquished and that is why Riku had to stay in Darkness at the end of KH.

I still am of the opinion though that Ienzo was probably 17ish around in BBS time as I can't find anything eluding to him being 7 at all. However, I could be proven wrong with BBS and I really hope they do put something about it out because Xehanort in the picture looks exactly like Xemnas which would be 9 years later.

One thing to add about Nomura's statement on what happens to Nobodies and Heartless that makes me think that Nobodies don't age. Since they are separated from their Hearts, wouldn't it make sense that they would not age as the Heart that is possibly within a Heartless would be in a sort of postponed state as well? It would seem to me that the body, heart and soul separated would mean they'd be in a sort of suspended state until rejoined to be whole, and if that was not possible, it would make them vanish if they died because they'd never be complete. It then makes more sense to me what Yen Sid was getting at. Since though knowing what Nomura did say...it makes me wonder exactly what Xemnas was up to because he just showed no interest in Riku at all, and also he and the others had the cure all along, which they themselves could have just asked Sora to help them since the Heartless are drawn to the Keyblade...and used the -real- Kingdom Hearts which seems to be a holding place for lost Hearts...to get made whole. I really hope KH3, 358/2 Days etc explains more of this because it is leaving me wondering really what was Xemnas up to.

 

I think they don't, when Axel was in that card game..what was it again? Sora was younger, then kh2, Axel was still the same. No, I don't think they age...I think that they stay like they are when created.

 

Is Zexion only 16? And as for him not being able to be a genius at seven: Have you ever seen Criminal Minds?*points at Reed* Woops, sorry I digress...
I think they do age, Xehanort looks like he is in his late twenties or early thirties in the flashback scene and in the portrait, while as Xemnas he looks like he could be 'bout forty...
And don't teenaged boys change the most at 'bout 14-15, I mean Sora looks completely different in KH1 compared to 2...

 

i think they do age,cause everything ages,if it's alive or not everything ages

 

Here's what I think.

The nobody ages as their main person ages. If their main person no longer exists (Xemnas, for example), then they stay the same age for ever.

But, if the main person does exist (ex. Sora and Roxas), then the nobody continues to age as their main person does.