Kingdom Hearts II Discussion of Secret Ending

Ok... I've been gone a bit... understood:

*^* I think all of this is unlikely. The whole gang going under whatever Ven, Aqua, and Terra underwent. We don't even know what they underwent besides an semi-obvious Keyblade war.

And if that's what you believe, are you implying that there be a second KBW (Keyblade war); making whatever Kari, Sora, and Riku are going to go through in the future, KBWII?

I have pictures of the engraved 'eye' symbols.

 

If we take the idea of history repeating itself, yes, when Xehanort recovers his memories, it will happen exactly as it did before with Baldy. Or at least that's the fate that is written : among the themes and questions KH3 (and I'm really talking about KH3, the next chapter in Sora's history), there could be "Can fate be changed ?". In other words, it could be about how Riku, Kairi and Sora try to change their fate, by not repeating the errors of their predecessors.

Of course that's just a wild guess, but given that the secret ending talks about fate, that Xehanort's memories seem linked to the past, to the keyblade war, and that there is an obvious difference between Sunset Horizons and Birth by Sleep (the keyblades they picked up)...it's just my idea of the future of the KH series : the next game would happen in the past, maybe show the events that led to keyblade war (how Terra, Aqua and Ven came to the events in Birth by Sleep), and KH3 would show how Xehanort would come to recover his memories, and try to redo what Baldy did in the past, and how Sora, Kairi and Riku try to stop him.

That's the whole point with the theme of fate : it's supposed to be inescapable, and it's set even before you were born (just like a prophecy). In Birth by Sleep, it seems Aqua, Terra and Ven can't win : Baldy's just too powerful for them, to the point that Terra makes a desperate move by using the darkness (which is shown by his eyes turning yellow). Maybe the next game will have a tragic ending (inescapable fate is a landmark theme of tragedy), with the knights losing the final battle (or at least postponing the conclusion, with a stalemate since they can't hope to win), and that the whole story of Baldy, Xehanort and the keyblade solved in KH3, with the Destiny Island trio succeeding where the knights have failed, and defying fate.

 

If the game turns out like that, I think I would really like it. The only thing is, how would they haave changed fate? There would have to be something huge for them to be able to change their fate. I guess that they can use time travel to change things, but the true face of time can not be changed. For example, in Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, the prince travels back in time to stop the creation of the Sands of Time. He knows that the emperess of time was the one who created the sands, so he sets out to kill her. However, The death of the emperess is what caused the sands to be created in the first place. He was the one that created the sands in the first place.

The only way they could change fate is to use a machine or a magical item that they could use to rewrite an event that they did. Doing so is the only effective way of changing the past, and thus, possibly changing fate.

 

I don't believe the change in fate will come from a device or something : given the genre of the series, I'd say it would come from the actions and choices of the protagonists, although I can't say exactly how, since I don't know how the keyblade war happened in the first place. I myself have thought about this a lot ; in fact I have even tried to make a fanfic out of it (as shown in my sig), but apparently noone read it...

 

Maybe the Keyblade War started because of thing that happened , you know when everybody was fighting over the light . Were the Keybearers fighting themselves or something else ? Who knows , I made a RPG about the Keyblade War and so far I am in the third story of the Keyblade War RPG, you should of seen the first one , it is very tragic.

 

Defying fate... in my opinion that is 3% likely and declining. Fate is a fickle thing.

Prgph 1: "Can fate be changed?" ~_~ I'm making this a 37% possibility. Still unlikely (it used to be a 39% until I edited it). If there was a true Keyblade war; then it must have been impacting. Any war would be impacting; thus, they would have/should have known about it. Thus keeping them on their toes... and they haven't been... at all... Unless there was some form of forshadowing before we saw the secret ending, then they wouldn't have known, like now. (Redirection the time of the secret ending towards the future *4% likely*) But steering back some; I'm guessing that we can safely say that it was probable that they should have known about this Keyblade War... But there's another option. What if it was... too far in the past... Like a legend. The soldiers clothes add to this and so does the setting. *snap* Oh but wait, what about Baldy's clothes... Crap... that pushes it more towards not being a legend... at all... XD I forgot about his clothes. They're more modern... Unless... *shifty eyes* Maybe just Badly went into the past... =o Back on topic: ... I've got nothing more to add to that semi-useless theory. *^*

*rolls up sleeves*

Prgph 2: Having the third series begin with the past and showing how Terra, Ven, and Aqua fought this war is also unlikely in my opinion. Since when would Xehnaort want/need the help of Sora, Kairi, and Riku? The man is pure nobody now. There's no going back for him. (But I think there's a small percentage that he may return again)

Pgph 3: This one of your paragraphs rules out all the others because the others deal with changing fate and this one says that you can't change fate... but then it steers back into a "yes, we can defy fate"... So... which is it?

But it would be likely that our gang would pick up where the old gang left off in their story.

But if that were so, then why would Badly wait so long to act in KH3? That pushes it to the future... but only a little bit of course.

That is 49% likely, good one on ya'! =D

Change in fate will come from a device? I agree that it wouldn't either. The rest I agree with.

And I just saw your fanfic link.

:/ The Keybearers were fighting something else and not themselves... I'm sure of that...

But the possibility of them fighting over something other than the light...

That's like a love-hate theory; so a fair 50%. But a probable 78% and an improbable 78%. (Wasn't kidding when I said love-hate)

=D

 

i think it is roxas cause he had blonde hair...

 

... *Theorists chuckle*... luulz. Nope. None of the soldiers are related to Sora, Kairi, or Riku. Their names are Terra (tall solder used to be named Larry), Ven (Roxas look-a-like), and Aqua (... the blue haired girl).

Yay to a new person! =D

 

Well, fate is supposed to be, by nature, unchangeable. But we're not talking general truths here, we're talking about the possible scenario of a Disney video game, so the optimistic hero (that's Sora) will prevail, just like always...

Look at KH1 : Ansem says "The heart's true nature is darkness", Sora disagrees, Ansem gets fried by the light from Kingdom Hearts...Optimistic hero 1, Pessimistic villain 0.

Look at CoM : Vexen and Marly say "Once you're enslaved by false memories, you're nothing but a puppet", Sora disagrees, the Organization members are toast when Sora listens to his heart, which is the same, false memories or not. Optimistic hero 2, Pessimistic villains 0...

Look at KH2 : DiZ says "Nobodies have no emotions and have no right to exist", Xemnas says "Anger and hate are supreme and that's all I remember, so I'm gonna kick your *** and my evil plan will succeed" (gotta love that Mansex), Sora and Roxas disagree...Axel sheds a tear, Roxas and Namine still exist even after merging with their original selves, and Xemnas is beaten by the power of two best friends allied and reunited. Optimistic hero 3, Pessimistic villain 0...(yeah, you can see a pattern being sketched)

So let's imagine the next KH game : Baldy says "I have an evil plan that involves the keyblades and Kingdom Hearts, and you're all going to die, because you can't stop me", Terra, Aqua and Ven disagree then the Keyblade War happens. In the end, they fight Baldy, and from the looks of Birth by Sleep, it's not going well for the optimistic heroes...The battle ends in a stalemate, the conclusion is postponed, and every protagonist is put in a dormant state, or something like that. Optimistic hero 3, Pessimistic villain 0, or 1.

(There I assume ('cause that's my theory) Xehanort was originally Baldy, that he possessed Terra's body, lost his memories. Terra, Aqua and Ven are either dead or unable to act.)

Now let's imagine KH3 : Xehanort (wether because Xemnas wasn't completely destroyed or because Xehanort's heartless manages to come back, maybe from Riku's heart) finally retrieves his memories, and says "Now I can resume my evil plan, and like before noone can stop me", Sora and gang disagree. Pessimistic villain develops and says "Others have tried before you, and they failed, you can't win, history's repeating itself, it's fate). Sora and gang disagree again (gee, those heroes really don't like compromise...). Pessimistic villain gets toasted because Optimistic hero finds a way to change fate (power of his heart, of his friends, device, cheating by doing something differently from the previous time...who knows).

In the end, Optimistic hero 4, Pessimistic villain 0 (or 1). So this whole idea of history repeating itself and inescapable fate seems to fit the whole scheme of the hero against all odds and adversity, but in the end wins, since he's a hero. The theme of fate also allows a link to the past (yeah I know, imagine Zelda with a keyblade...) and to the origins : the keyblade's nature can be explained, as well as how the universe began, the history of Xehanort, predecessors for Sora, Riku and Kairi (heroic succession is a very good theme)...how it all began.

 

... Alright, alright, I give. *white flag*

 

It seems that KH3 would make no sense unless the past was explained, since they're making this spin off first. Ya, they don't like compramise.

I know this is random, but before the final Xemnas fight, He basicly says that Sora is radient (no more eternal than that radience of yours). was he flirting with him?

Hmm, I wonder what a theorist's chuckle sounds like...

 

Riku must of had a Dive to Heart. When you fight Riku in Land of Drags he is in his Ansem form but he has soul eater. We dont see Riku use Way to the Dawn until he becomes regular Riku. Maby when Ansem had his machine explode that was when Riku had his Dive to Heart. Maby in each Station of Serenity the final boss is the darkness in you. When sora fights his boss at end its big heartless that looks like him and Twilight Thorn(Roxas battle) is a nobody.
Highbeing where is picture of eye?

 

It's full of comical theories.

Oh yeah here:

... see... pretty eye right on the Keyblade...

 

maybe that bald guy is ansem the wise grandfather or dad could b possible thats hes that old hmm maybe not um....

 

Uhh... let me see if I got this:

You think that Badly is Ansem the Wise's grandfather or father and that's why it's possible for Badly to look so old... or maybe not um...

Ansem the Wise was a good guy... odds are, his relatives were good as well. :/ but I guess they do look similar...

*curses* If only Baldy wasn't so bald.

 

this may sound stupid but i'm just taking a guess usually when ur relatives they have the same color of hair and genes not the way they look but i'll get a picture of him to c if he had blonde eyebrows or something related to ansem the wise

 

... Right. That's what I was saying. Their looks are similar to one another.

Picture proof makes theorists happy. =D

 

Well, I havent theorized in a while cause my brain hurt, but now I'm back....

but I see a bunch of different conversations....

What are we talkin about?

 

O_o! XD Don't get the fangirls started, please. I wouldn't be able to stop myself. :p

That reminds me of something ラクシーヌ said in Facts and Theory:
Sora: "Where do you think it is? the door to the light?"
Riku: *points to Sora's chest" "This, Its always closer than you think."

I was gone too, finishing finals. Were you sick?

Your timing is right. But it could have been that Riku couldn't use a keyblade when he was surrounded by so much darkness, since in Riku's case, darkness makes his heart weaker.

Couldn't his Dive into the Heart have been his fight with Xehanort in CoM? He didn't go into the Station of Serenity, but he did defeat the darkness in his heart.

Since I don't mind intruding, =) what are you two flirting about?

 

Well since shingo's all about flirting today...See that text about a theory team in RikuNotRikku's sign ? His MP was offering me a membership in that team. So if you call that flirting, good for you, man : you must really enjoy job interviews...kidding.

About Riku's Dive into the Heart, it could also have happened way back, even before the beginning of the first game : since he was the keyblade's first chosen one, he probably went to the Station of Serenity before Sora.

However, it's also possible he may have had two Dives into the Heart : after all, Roxas had to do it in order to get the keyblade back. Maybe Riku had to do it again so he could get it back, after he was corrupted by darkness. Then again, maybe Roxas never really had a Dive into the Heart (since he has no heart, technically), but just experienced it as a flashback, reliving another of Sora's memories.

And about Mansex flirting with Sora, I'd say the "radiance" part refers to Sora and Riku being heroes for light.

Finally, about Sora and the door to light, what Riku meant is that the door opened thanks to the power of Sora's heart and the link between his heart and Kairi's.