Kingdom Hearts II Discussion of Secret Ending

Thanks for the Sephira tidbit Kanji. I didn‘t know that. ^^

twilight, I absolutely agree with you that memories are a key part of Nomura's plan. They play a big part in Kingdom Hearts. Namine, a “special†being, had powers that focused on memories. The lead villian may have been a completely different person when he had a different set of memories…and yet Sora was still Sora when he lost his. And Roxas was still Roxas even though he didn’t remember Axel…maybe slightly less angsty. *laughs*

In fact, Axel made a great effort to retain his connection with Roxas even though Roxas didn’t remember him. Namine made an effort to reconnect with Sora, though she probably didn’t realize why she was so drawn to him. Sora was driven to find Riku, Kairi was driven to find Sora, and in general Kingdom Hearts has been a story about keeping friends, even when the odds are against you. If we follow that theme, maybe Xehanort was driven to explore the darkness in the heart because he innately felt that it would bring him towards Ven and Aqua, even though he couldn‘t remember them.

^^ You guys probably think I’m making a huge deal out of silly little things. My goal is to find patterns in the story that may be repeated…or purposefully deviated from later. Maybe Baldy will have an organization…of six! Isn’t the fun in speculating bouncing ideas off each other? Even if you’re shot down, you still might inspire someone.

I’ve wondered about what kind of a place Terra, Aqua, and Ven come from, and how their world affected them. There are thousands of key blades around them, and yet no one comes to join the fight. There in a desert, where all life seems to have withered away. Did they have anyone else besides Baldy and each other?

 

... he had a Spidy\Riku Rep with him?

... probably doesn't help. My brain is muddled.

 

They probably created him so that they could have a friend their own age. :D

 

I dont know if anyones said this, but couldnt ven come from Ventus. The latin word for wind.

PS: if someones said this im really sorry:o

 

I personnally think they're at the crossroads (yes, the same we see in Chain of Memories), after the last great battle of the keyblade war : that's why there are so many keyblades, why they form the crossroads and why the landscape is so barren (the battle has unleashed so much destructive powers it has made those green meadows a barren desert).

 

Well... that's pretty brilliant, ankaret. No sarcasm there. I've been around for a while in the Discussion and I've read every post I've missed.

I haven't seen this connection yet.

Are you sure it's the latin word for wind? Some hard evidence would do good. (:

... it would make sense. In spanish, wind means viento.

 

im quite sure it is:)

 

Thank you so much for your support shingo. Memories are so important in these games; it's way too obvious to be a coincidence.

I agree with you about Namine. The fact that she's in the story critically to retain and redo memories is a huge logistic. I mean, Axel's catchphrase is "Got it memorized?" That right there tells ya something!

Another thing I've been working with is that there was a kid (Ven) before Roxas who Roxas based his own physical appearance on. This is heavily influenced by the quotes Xaldin posted on the home-menu:

* "Do not return to healing their pains."
* "Days after he is born are counted."
* "Are the days memorized?"
* "I do not want to forget after he is born."
* "With those in mind, is there a new story?"

Of course, we still don't know if these are for real or not, so my theory may change drastically if we find that out.

Something else I've been thinking about, along with the fact that these third beings might be the embodiment of memories, is that Aqua may be what Kairi wants to actually look like. Since a lot of people think that Aqua looks a lot like her, they may have some sort of connection. This is extreme nonsence right now, but it could be useful to one of you.

 

These quotes are from the promotional video shown at the square enix party. I'm not sure how good the translations are, though, but they look pretty good to me.

Here's what I think of them:

To me, this looks like it is regarding Terra as well. However, it seems to support some things I have thought for a while.

Before, I have said that 'birth by sleep' could refer to the birth of a new persona after the original person's memory is lost.

There are a few lines that support this. "I do not want to forget after he is born" is the main one. After the new person is born, he will forget. "Are the days memorized" ties it closer to memory.

"The days after he is born are counted" makes it seem like the person who was 'born' is dangerous. (your days are numbered)

With "do not return to healing their pains," it can be interpreted as emotional and sociological pains. Meaning the old person will not return to his friends and making them happy, since he doesn't remember them.

"With those in mind, is there a new story" further supports the 'birth' of a new person, since it would therefore create a new story. It is a question since it could be seen as a new story, or a continuation of an old story (the person before he lost his memory’s story). It begs the question and brings out the theme of: if someone loses their memory, are they truly a different person?

 

how dare you?!

Of course Naruto and Sasuke is so much cooler then Riku and Sora! Even tho Sora and riku are cool....... But well i am a anime nerd and manga nerd and well no one can save me anymore... I am lost in my own world called youtube mostly. But kingdom hearts is great and every thing i just dont like Riku and Sora more then Naruto and sasuke. organization XIII, they are the coolest in kh really. they are almost as great as Akatsuki (sorry but thats just me and Akatsuki has a great place in my heart) well i hope they release kh 3 soon, even tho i wont afford it *sight* well my friend will have it until then i hope! *evil glare*


GOOOOOOO KINGDOM HEARTS!! and can you guess who my friend is? he is a member here, ever heard of ankaret777? *mohahahahahahaha*

 

I did not encourage her to write this believe me!
please excuse her interupting this good forum, and please dont hate me for it...

 

That's really good information, RikuNotRikku. If you don't mind, can I quote you on some of this for my own theory? It's a better explanation than I can do.

 

Thanks. Go ahead, I don't mind, as long as you give me credit, lol.

 

We're all thinking of Terra right now.

I had been wondering about that line. I see how you're interpreting the grammar. Thank you.

I can sort of see how the two look similar, though not strongly. The strongest reason that many people see them as being the same person is through relationships. I see Ven as a previous persona of Sora, and when I see the emotional interactions between Ven and Aqua, I wonder if it might interfere with Sora and Kairi's relationship. I don't see Kingdom Hearts as the type of story where the two main love interests would interfered with by another serious love interest (at least not blatantly), so there are two possibilities I would consider: 1) Ven and Aqua do not have a romantic relationship, or 2) Kairi is a persona of Aqua.

I want to give you support, because you're beginning to flesh out some ideas that I feel strongly about.

I think that's a very likely possibility, but it's already been explored very well.

 

In Com, we saw that even losing his memories, Sora could still follow his heart and retain his true personality. The question is : will Terra be different, and will the nex game's possible darker tone affect this matter ?

About the "healing their pains", if the translation is accurate, it basically means : "do not return to the healing of their pains", which implies he (or her) had already started healing their pains. It does not mean "do not return in order to heal their pains", it's more subtle than that.

 

Thanks a lot shingo. I appreciate the support. I can also understand the physical similarities between Kairi and Aqua, but I can't say much else unless I know more about Aqua as a person. Besides, she looks a little bit older than Ven (just my personal opinion), maybe around Terra's age. I think the Ven/Aqua relationship is more of a Mother/Son relationship or Sister/Brother. I don't know why, but I can't really see them together like I would Sora and Kairi.

All very good points. Does anyone else think that the Terra we see in the secret ending could be a different Terra who Sora fights as a boss? (Just another thing I've been fiddling with; it may or may not mean anything.)

 

I personally think the Terra we fight is not the Terra in the secret ending, since I believe his body was taken by Baldy.

But apart from theories and personal opinions, I think we can all agree on one point : Terra has a weird behaviour when Sora meets him. He talks in erratic words and fragments that make it seem like gibberish, and he says all he has is hatred, as if he was made of that emotion. That reminds me of a ghost, lingering in the world of the living because he still has one thing left to do, and driven only by this thing, here his hatred of Xehanort.

When you add this to the resemblance between Terra and Xehanort, you get to the idea that the Terra we meet as Sora is only a fragment of the original person, a ghost or a shadow. From there, wether it's his memories, his heart that was cast out when Baldy took his body or something else, is just speculation.

 

About him being like a ghost, they sometimes call him 'the lingering sentiment.'

Terra and the knight you fight are sopost to be the same person, or at least, the same body.

The Lingering Sentiment (Enigmatic Soldier) is the same as the armoured youth in the movie, but when he fights Sora he mentions “Aqua†and “Venâ€. Are those the names of the other 2?

Nomura: Yes. The blue-haired girl is Aqua.

What is the armoured youth’s name... in code(terra)

 

Thank you. I had taken the second meaning, not the first. So the person (A) who was healing their pains has already had some sort of contact with the person or people (B) that (A) is not supposed to return to.

Could it be Aqua and Xemnas, when they are both in the Room of Sleep? This would assume that Aqua's consciousness is in the Room of Sleep, not just her armor.

Could it talk about Axel and Roxas/Sora's friendship?

Could it be Aqua and Sora/Ven, where Aqua's conciousness is the voice that talks to Sora and Roxas, leading them through the trials in their hearts.

 

When Terra meets Sora for the first time, he says that Sora isn't the one he picked. I mean, Riku was originally supposed to have the keyblade but Sora won it in the end, Could that possibly mean that if riku had come instead things could have happend in another way. What my point is was Terra the one who gave The keyblade too Sora, but meant to give it to Riku.

And since this is going to be a prequel i've just made this up: as i wrote, i think Terra sent Kingdom key to Sora and in sunset horizon you see Aqua picking up mickeys blade and Ven picking up way to dawn, could it be possible that someone sent way to dawn to Riku after the battle, and that mickey found his keyblade there when everything was over.