Kingdom Hearts II Discussion of Secret Ending

I lied.

I actually predicted his name was going to be Terra before it was released. It made sense. It's kind of a girl's name, though (*coughFF6*cough*).

 

Ok then.

Oh did you now? :P Yeah, Terra is pretty girly, but it's also very masculine.

... and by earth, I mean the land.

 

H-uh, if you pause it right before all the keyblades are thrown up into a rip-off of Senbonzakura you can see that the closest one to the right is the Fenrir.

 

twilit_shadow, I understand the parallels you're making between Roxas and Sora. I thought Nomura could have done it for the sake of the atmosphere during Roxas' time in Twightlight Town. Nomura was sending subtle hints of Sora to us while we played Roxas.

Long, long ago, before Kingdom Hearts was released, I read a really interesting theory about Final Fantasy 7, that compared the characters to the Sephirot Tree. That's it's own story, but the theory also touched how the number three reoccurs in FF7. Unfortunately, I've long lost the link to that theory. *fustrated*

When Kingdom Hearts came out, it was eery how the trinity symbolism repeated in it. Although I can't remember the significance of the number three in FF7, I have no doubt that Nomura brought that significance into Kingdom Hearts.

Kairi, Riku, Sora.
Aqua, Terra, Ven.
Namine, Axel, Roxas.
Donald, Goofy, Sora.
Donald, Goofy, Mickey.
Magic, Defense, Offense.

No prob. It could be indirectly related. That's probably what it is. But I really want a direct relation! If we assume that Roxas is able to wield a second keyblade because Xemnas handed over his own ability, then a connection could be made between Roxas and Xehanort. A keyblade is a focus of power, but could it also contain things like hearts or memories?

 

Another thing I was thinking about is that this so-called "third being" isn't the mind, but the embodiment of memories. If you think about it, the subject of memory is extremely important throughout KH, so this probably isn't too far off. That's why I still think that this Terra guy is Xehanort's third being.

 

yyyup. That's what we've been speculating about for a long while. But we stort of stopped it a while back but it's still been in the back of our minds. :)

:/... *rips out hair* This is driving me insane. So many theories, not enough answers, there's just no possible way that we'll know for a fact for anything we bring up! It's impossible if they don't hand out more information...

... worth while information... *stomp stomp*

... Hm. That's interesing. I didn't know the trinity was also used in Final Fnatasy 7. And the Sephirot Tree?? Are you sure it's not Sephiroth? Seems like a typo to me... *shrug*

I don't understand the relationship between those names you listed... *gets hit*

 

Well, you do have Three party members in FF7... I can't think of anything else though...

I attached a pitures of aqua and her keyblade and the dark keyblade made of the prince's hearts to compair. It may be a drawing, but it was the best I could find. They don't look the same to me.

HigherBeing, don't worry, we all get frusterated at times. It happens what there is so little information and so many possiblities.

 

arrrgh! Is there somewhere you can see the additional event without acctually having been at the Square Enix Party. It sounds good... It makes me mad living so far away!

 

No way... Their Keyblades look nothing like. They're different colors, different styles. The handle is different, so is the blade.

 

You're on the right course! Memories could be the third element. The ghost we see of Terra could exist in current time, as a shadow of his memories, because his memories were cast out when Baldy took over his body. (I'm repeated what's been said before aren't I? :p)

:p It's not a typo. Sephirot and Sephiroth are different spellings for the same word.

"Sephiroth's name also comes from the Kabbalah, in which the ten Sephiroth (סְפִירוֹת Sephirot) on the Tree of Life represents the ten attributes of God." http://www.answers.com/topic/sephiroth-final-fantasy-vi

The theory I read suggested that each of the nine characters in FF7 represented an attribute on the tree of life, with Sephiroth being the tenth. Here's a brief summary of what the Sephirot is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Life_(Kabbalah) Evangelion also used the Tree of Life as a mythological basis.

Anyway (before I get kicked off the Kingdom Hearts forum for being irrelevant :o) the same theory talked briefly about the number three reoccuring in FF7. It had something to do with the character connections happening in threes:

Cloud, Aerith, Tifa (love triangle)
Zack, Sephiroth, Cloud (broken connection)
The full party is made of nine, which can be neatly broken into three.

There was more said about the number three, but I just can't remember what. When I played Kingdom Hearts, the reoccuring theme of trinity made me wonder if there was a relation. I tried to find the theory, but I've had no success.

I recognise the trinity as a reoccuring pattern in KH, just like Roxas' life followed the same pattern as Sora's, and how Kanji suggests that Riku's bout with darkness may be a repeat of Terra's (suggested through the clone that Baldy uses).

I just listed the instances where the trinity is used. In Kingdom Hearts, I think it may be a model for perfection. Any of these instances could have used just two people. Why did Roxas have to have three friends in Twighlight Town? Two, one, or four would have worked.

Magic, Defense, Offense.
Kairi, Riku, Sora.
Aqua, Terra, Ven.
Namine, Axel, Roxas.
Donald, Goofy, Sora.
Donald, Goofy, Mickey.
Hayner, Olette, Pence.
Seifer, Fuu, Rai.
Heart, Body, Soul.
Heartless, Nobodies, and that unknown third that so many of us speculate exists. We've all noticed that something is just missing without a third element.

And think about Organization 13. Nomura may have chosen Roxas to be 13 because it's an unlucky number, but also think about how he also didn't belong there. Before him, it would have been Organization 12, and 12 is a multiple of three, the perfect number. By adding that one extra person, the group became unstable.

We can't add Selphie to the Riku, Kairi, and Sora dynamic, because she doesn't fit. She wasn't given as deep an emotional connection to them, and her abilities don't fit into the magic, defense, offense model with them. Riku, Kairi, and Sora were designed to stand as an individual unit. I think Nomura has made a design choice to use the trinity as a basis of strength and completeness or wholeness in Kingdom Hearts.

 

whoa! thats alot of research!

 

Wow shingo, you've given me a lot to think about. The number 3 is very dominant in these games; guess I just never noticed it before. And the fact that Nomura is very in-depth about his characters and stories wayyy beyond their outer appearance is another pointer to these facts. Thanks!

I still think that memories play a huge part in these games (i.e., the fact that CoM is called, well, Chain of Memories). Throughout Deep Dive, memories, thought, memory, past, history, along with other keywords fly across the screen. Even though this video was made as a pre-trailer for KH2, it can also apply to this new story. I still see some lines in Deep Dive that were never used in either KH2 or FM+, and that could be still seen in the future. Memories are all apart of our inner and outer being, molding us to who and what we really are on the inside and outside. Xehanort is a complete example of this: his outer appearance was completely reconfigured when his memories were lost and/or destroyed. Unless Nomura has something else up his sleeve on this situation that we don't know about. *pries through Nomura's diary*

 

I see, Shingo... That's certainly intersting. *kudos* I had no idea. Tell me you figured all that out on your own... If so, then you need a Nobel. XD luulz.

So... we have another trio... Ven, Aqua, and Terra.

.. hm.

 

Just one tiny tiny thing about the Tree of Life, Sephiroth is a plural, the singular is Sephira.

About this whole trinity thing, it's really interesting indeed. I think this idea of a 3-person groupe can be found in many other works : take Naruto for example, in the genin teams there are always two boys, one girl, like with our Destiny Islands gang.

That is very common is shonen and in mangas more generally ; in many shonen you have the two protagonists : the naïve and kind-hearted one and the serious, skilled and brooding one. That's Sora and Riku for you. Given that this always results in a rivalry, if not in an enmity, there's usually a third element in the team, who will bring balance to those two. If this third member is calm and reasonable, it helps, so usually it's a girl. There you have Kairi. The kind-hearted idiot, the "cool guy" and the reasonable one in the middle. The holy trinity of manga and many japanese works of fiction. You can find that in Berserk (Gatts, Griffith and Casca), Hellsing (Seras, Alucard and Integra) as well.

And apparently that pattern is reproduced with the knights. Terra corresponds to Riku, so he's the serious skilled one, Ven (=Sora) is the enthusiastic naïve guy and Aqua (=Kairi) is probably the reasonable balance-bringer (you can see how the takes care of those two, with the Reflect on Terra and how she catches Ven when he falls).

 

Those are bad examples to speculate something on.

You guys are paranoid. Who cares about the number 3? Wow? 3? Big woop. That's just the way it is. Games back then couldn't handle more than 3 people in the party. It also turns out that way in KH because THERE ARE 3 HEROES TO CONTROL.

Attack, Defense, Magic. That's in lotz of games.

 

I see. Makes sense, shingo. But yes, Roxas has a point. Number 3 is still just 3.

If the soldiers have a trio then odds are so will Baldy... he might have his own organization... of three... XP I dunno... -_-'

I don't think I have anything else to speculate about the secret ending with.

... unless someone brings something else up of course.

 

I get what you mean kind of, but really I think that Terra is the caretaker. He's by far the most powerful and most skilled. He's really the only one who seems to know what he's doing, most of the time Aqua and Ven are just getting in the way. Yes, I agree that Sora, Riku and Kairi are kind of clones of Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura and it is a common theme in anime, but maybe Nomura's going to kind of change things (for instance, I don't think that Terra has Riku's situation of being jealous of Ven/Sora, or having a crush on Aqua/Kairi).

 

I think you're wrong. Just by watching that fight, you can look a little into their characters.

Terra- Good fighter, but relies too much on rage. He doesn't really think or plan. The rage/rushing in might be a result of this paticular fight, though. The caretaker is not the most skilled person, that's the point. He rushes in too much, an as a result, get hit the most times.

Ven-He would rather try to reason than fight. He seems to be a pretty balanced fighter, though he doesn't show us much of his skills in the battle. He seems Naiive, and is left handed. Also seems to let emotions guide him.

Aqua- relies on magic rather than phsical strength. She is caring, kind and compassionate. She castes reflectga on Terra, proving she cares for/looks out for the other members of the group. She also seems to have something going on with Ven.

 

Please don't relate glorious characters like Sora and Riku to shallow ones like Naruto and Sascake. Or whatever it is. Sasuke maybe.

 

If glorious now means ******ed...

Listen, I don't like Naruto (the series), or the character, or Sasuke. But the same goes for Sora, Riku, and Kairi. Nobody can deny that Cloud is a total badass compared to Sora, that Tifa is a better female lead than Kairi in all areas. And Riku... well, there's nobody really in Riku's position in FF7, but Nakaki is cooler, too.

EDIT: Also, Terra seems to try to take care of Ven and Terra, in how he stops Ven and goes himself. He might be a bit prideful in that, thinking he can do it all on his own, but clearly he wants to make sure that Aqua and Ven are kept safe. However, Aqua and Ven jumped into the battle, Ven (presumably) died, and Aqua was only kept alive by Terra's efforts.