Chain of Memories Did Anyone Notice This About Larxene?

That in the game (at least the RE:COM one), Larxene believes she has a heart? As during one point in the game, when Vexen comes to see her, she remarks, "People with no hearts truly are worthless." From this comment, I assume that means she forgets that she has no hearts. It would make sense, as she believes she feels delight from causing others pains and claims that they are her 'toys'. She is also a bit short-tempered, as she becomes angry easily, which is virtually impossible for a Nobody. So I would assume that her 'anger' is merely drawn from memories, as all her other feelings are, and she would act as she would as when she was a Somebody. I remember in the KH2:FM, according to the translations here, Saix or someone had told Demyx that falling under the illusion of having a heart, and thus, feeling emotions, was dangerous, as it makes them forget their true purpose. So from this, I suppose Larxene has, like Demyx, has forgotten that she has no heart, as Vexen did point this out, saying "Or have you forgotten you have no heart either?!"

Either that, or she refuses to accept the fact that she is a Nobody. She may not want to admit that she has lost her heart, when she has, so she refuses to admit it. This, I am not sure of, as she makes no implications of what she's truly thinking. However, when Vexen retorts back (saying that she had forgotten), she is silent, just crossing her arms, and she looks away, angrily, but with a haughty look. This may mean that she is now reminded and thus remembered she is a Nobody (but is still managing to keep her dignity), or she has never forgotten and was just trying to deny it, so to this, she refuses to respond to, as she is unsure of what to say as it is the truth she doesn't want to admit as true...

Well, that's my theory. Does anyone agree or disagree, or would like to add your own opinion?

 

What's to say that Larxene was excluding herself from that line? She may have insulted herself, but what would she care if she didn't have a heart to feel pain from that statement?

And you know, maybe she's just pretending that she has feelings? They do that you know. The Org members express all these different tones and make all these facial expressions (lol, Vexen), even though in truth, they're projecting nothing that comes from a heart. They argue and act up and all that, but they don't really feel anything. I guess they just act like they have emotions so that they can give off a certain impression towards others. Such as when Vexen acts all anxious in that scene between Xigbar and Zexion, he's probably doing that to let others know that something serious is up. Or perhaps when the Castle Oblivion group messes around with Sora and Riku, they try to be intimidating or provocative (Larxene is a good one at that).

Other than that, I guess when the Nobodies talk to real people they just act for show. Larxene acts like she has fun from hurting others, but that could just be an act. She wants to hurt others that get in her way, but I guess she's just acting like she enjoys it to provoke Sora, and she probably acts angry to scare others.

 

Hmm...I never thought of that, but then, why would she call herself 'worthless'? I would think she'd have a high opinion of herself, despite being a Nobody. And I know for certain most of htem pretend to have feelings, but do some of them truly believe they can feel when they actually don't?

 

Well, if you think about the Organization, they shouldn't really have hearts otherwise creating the Organization to get hearts would be pointless. This should hold true for Larxene, because if she (believed she) had a heart, why would she have joined the Organization? This should be the case for all the other members except Roxas, who wasn't sure if he had a heart or not.

Also, that line could've just been Larxene looking for a random insult at Vexen and then just blabbing it out. :p

 

But some of the Organization members are in denial and think they DO have hearts. Just like in KH2 when Sora said "Right. Org. XIII are nobodies - no hearts!" and Demyx says "Oh, we do to have hearts." But if he believes this, then what was the point of Organization XIII?

 

The first time I saw that scene, I just figured that Demyx was looking for mercy to avoid fighting. But if he really did think he had a heart, then he's weird for being a part of the Organization. He's even reluctant to have responsibilities for being a part of it, so if he did think he had a heart, then he shouldn't have had any reason to stay with the group. Unless he's simply afraid that he would have been eliminated as a traitor.

 

You people put too much thought into this!

Anyways, I did notice that she acts like she has emotions.

 

I wonder how Demyx got into a Larxene topic. o.o

But true, both of them act as if they got a "heart" and "emotions" to go along with them, as if they're throwing away the fact that they're Nobodies. Either that, or they just want to kill Sora, throw him off, or just forget they're Nobodies and try to become a Sombody. xP

 

Hm...well, it's either that they're pretending to have emotions, trying to delude themselves of this 'fact', or they have actually forgotten for a moment.

 

I think that they know full well that they don't have hearts. However, we've seen a lot of evidence to show that they really don't have much in the way of thoughts for themselves, and most of them openly accept the fact that they're in the in-between stages of death, and that their suspension there is only temporary. I think Larxene was just saying that she and the other Nobodies were just worthless, and that even people with powers and weapons are hopeless against the keyblade.

As for them having hearts, I always thought of it like this: They do have hearts, physicially. We haven't actually got any proof to say that they don't have something beating in their chests. What they mean by the heart, I think, is just the metaphorical heart...so probably just a lack of emotions (which is more on the psychological side) and their body stays untouched. But I don't know, really, that's just what I always thought of it as.

 

That's a good point there.

 

so in there larxene is calling herself wothless so she had no heart
but ya
like demyx she forgot she has no heart....
but how come axel is like "dont go roxas!! you make me feel like i have a heart!"
so axel is acting like he has a heart, but he remembers that he doesnt have one????
confusing

 

i kinda feel like she does have a heart..

 

I always think Larxene is more than she seemed.

There was definitely a softer side in there somewhere.

But we will never find out because she's gone, and if she ever made it to KH2, she probably would have been a interesting character. Actually, she already is a interesting and awesome character, and I loved the way she presented herself. It's a shame there wasn't much done. You would have thought the only girl in the Org. would get some screentime (concerning the little amount there is. 3 original so far. And Aqua), especially if she was so kickass. Literally. Is stupid I think that Sora defeated her, when with one kick from her he looked like he was mortally wounded and if Donald didn't heal him...

Anyway, she's one of the few that showed more emotions than the rest. You saw her pouting, you saw her angry, upset, annoyed, happy (when she smirked and enjoyed her games anyway) sad (when she died... the VA did a excellent job. The tone practically killed me :(. I was like, "NOOOOO!"), and disappointed - check when she reveals Sora everything in her last moments, her facial expressions. And especially in the part that she mentions Axel. She doesn't trust people, as stated in her profile, and being duped that way must have been a slap in the face. I don't know. In that scene I felt bad for her. She revealed the plot because she knew everything was royally screwed up now and there was no point to it anymore, and she directed her anger and every negative emotion she was feeling into her actions, Sora, and Naminé. That was her downfall.

Think about it. She could have had a chance to escape. But she didn't take it.

Even in personality from the time we saw is clear. She's laid-back (outside of battle, when not playing with her toys xP), naïve, playful, flirty, childish, arrogant, self-confident, uncaring, cold, cruel, and vain. She takes pride in her fighting skills and power (and she should. She's amazing, like a ninja xP). And...am I the only one who just found her utterly amusing?

Despite this, I don't think Larxene really believed she had a heart. Is hard to get into her brain because we don't really know much about her or her background, or why she's the way she is. Like someone said, it was more like a snide remark to Vexen than herself. She wouldn't think herself worthless because when she was fading she didn't want to go. Or wasn't ready. If she wasn't worth it, she wouldnt have cared.

And her sadism isn't that scary either. She was more like a "Ha! You can't defeat me, you puppets! I can kick your a**!" sadist (it showed when she was throwing Repliku. The creepy part was that she acted like a little girl sometimes, and with her "I don't break my toys, I only play with them" comment, it was like whoa. Think of the scary line of "They're heeeeeere!" *shudder* Oh, and the manga. She's more of a sexually seductive sadist, and what happened with Repliku after he called her a "old woman" or "hag" and gets on top of him. "I'm going to show you a WONDERFUL memory."....o_O Is it true?). Her sadism....it goes more with her apathetic nature actually: She. Doesn't. Give. A. Damn. About anyone. And she looked like she finds joy in people's stupidity, their way of thinking, and delusions more than their pain, which is a bonus.

My opinion of her, is that since she knows she doesn't have a heart, she takes advantage of it. Why care, feel guilt and regret, when she doesn't have one? I think she took into account that she's nothing, a shell, and therefore doesn't exist, so she doesn't bother being nice or waste her time pretending, except in the end when she showed other feelings than the usual for once. "The heart is a mysterious thing, Axel." is one of my fave lines, just cause I didn't expect it from her. I got a manga one too, even though it takes its own canon:

"You have no idea what's truly precious!" (*sniff*)

She also didn't seem to understand why Sora kept going on to protect Naminé when the whole thing was fake, didn't get his feelings, or his good nature. She kept telling him that he's delusional, stupid, that he doesn't get it, and why does he keep bothering when that promise was false. I think we all saw her get frustrated with him too. The first and last time we see Larxene so freakin' upset.

People aren't cruel unless something happened, but since she wasn't "Axel Important" enough, there was no point going deeper, I guess. Or maybe is the artificial Disney and cartoonish, "They're just evil...cause they are." crap. Maybe giving people pain was her "proof of existance", so to speak. A way to make her feel alive.

That's all I have to say. I apologize for the long read though ^_^;. Larxene topics get me like this. Is automatic typing character analysis.

 

tl;dr above post

All the Nobodies seem like they have hearts, but they don't. Naminé for one had a constant gloominess about her in Chain of Memories, but she didn't really feel sad at all. Perhaps it's just habit as to how they would react if they did have hearts? Or perhaps they hope to feel something from their actions?

You know... The Nobodies could have been planned to have hearts in the beginning, but perhaps that changed in the development of KH2. Just like how Lexaeus doesn't have darkness in Re:CoM like he did in CoM, because Nobodies have nothing, neither darkness or light in them.

 

whoah thats alot of reading,but I agree with both of you, specialy with the part of them acting how they would act if they had hearts. after all siax(i think) said they remembered what it was like to have a heart, so why wouldn't they act on the feelings they remembered?

 

I loved your huge analysis, *TwilightNight*, and don't worry, I tend to go on and on about her as well. lol Anyway, so basically...put into simple words, Larxene takes advantage of not having a heart, but despite her nonchalant outer appearance, deep inside, she's upset that she doesn't have a heart and deeply desires one. She seems carefree and almost childish, but in a way she's also the one who has a deeper past it seems, as she doesn't trust anyone, but doesn't show it. As for the remark to Vexen...I'm still confused about that. I'm pretty sure she doesn't think of herself as worthless, so I'm not sure why she would say something like that...unless she forgot for the moment, or has been trying to delude herself.

 

Thanks, Nymph. And you did basically put it into simple words, and put a new possible one. You're right about Larxene wanting a heart, yet doesn't admit it openly. I mean, if she didn't desire it, why join the 13th Order in the first place? Character point there.

Larxene never outright stated that she didn't trust anyone, only in her CoM profile, though as we see from her attitude, it definitely suits her, and is very believable. Her faith only extended to Marluxia, or else she wouldn't be in his plot to take over, and Axel, which turned out to be a foolish level of trust. More to the fact that in her profile it also said that she's "in good terms" with him (and they were, actually. Hell, they even teamed up to mock Vexen. I loved her sarcastic, "Gomen Nasaaaaai!") I wonder if she thought herself stupid after she found out about Axel, but she shouldn't, really, not that much. I would explain, but that will dwelve somewhat into Larxel.

I always wanted to know how Larxene got into Marluxia's little plan to take control. I know she perhaps wanted power and respect, is in her, but I'm curious to know if she had doubts or second thoughts about it all. I hope she didn't follow blindly.

Don't worry about that remark so much. I'm positive it was just to put Vexen down instead of herself, to piss him off. It wasn't about deluding or forgetting, as it didn't seem that way. Think of it as one of those moments were you randomly think of a retort in the attempt to annoy. For Vexen, it was his failure.

 

Oh, I loved that scene when she and Axel were teaming up against Vexen. And I would think that Larxene was slightly ambitious, and some people tend to believe that as a Somebody, she and Marluxia were good friends. However, I don't really think so, as in the KHII:FM, according to the translations we have here, Xigbar brought Marluxia into the Organization first, and it wouldn't make sense to how they would be friends but come into the Organization at different times...unless they became a Nobody at a different time, but now, I'm totally getting off subject to a matter that the game never delved into.

Anyhow, I tend to believe that in the Oblivion Castle, Larxene and Marluxia developed a platonic relationship and since they shared the same ambition, decided to work together. And since Axel is also a part of the upperground members, I should think he got to know them well, and thus Larxene and him became good friends. Although I noticed Marluxia never really trusted him, as he gave him a test at first (killing Vexen), so I'm not sure why it would seem as if Larxene gave her trust to Axel first, and quicker than Marluxia, unless he has an even harder time trusting people. But for a short, simple answer to your question about how Larxene got into Marluxia's plan, I'm really not sure myself. It would seem that they shared the same goal and since they already had a good relationship (as so it would seem) they decided to work together.

And yeah, I won't think about that remark much...it would make sense as one of those moments. By the way, you really ought to check out my other thread in the Kingdom Hearts manga section about Larxene's death, as there's a question there that's totally bugging me, and I would really like to hear your opinion about it, as you know a lot about her.

 

I never believed that Marluxia and Larxene were friends as Somebodies. Especially witth that explanation. The only theory I can take is that Marluxia somehow seduced Larxene into it, though even that is taken by a grain of salt with me.

I don't disagree at all with what you've said, as it follows the same route I'm heading for. Personally, the whole taking over the Org. was a type of newbie mistake. Marluxia by the time of Xigbar's scene with Zexion, had just gotten in, and Larxene would be next. How long after him, is left up in the air, but they obviously talked when she came. As you explained, they found out they share some kind of goal, and worked together a plan, though I'm sure Marluxia was the mastermind behind it. If they had been longer in the group, their loyalty wouldn't have bended so easily. Besides, I always felt Larxene took Marluxia in respect more than anything, as she didn't act as comfortable with him as Axel, yet held him in high regard.

As for Axel, I'm guessing Larxene and him had much more in common, as Marluxia looks to keep a distance, and with that, bonded more quickly. In a way that they can have proper conversations, they know each other enough for Axel to keep warning and reminding Larxene not to break Sora (he must know the way she works), etc., etc. Basically, how they acted around each other. Again, don't want to go much into Larxel. In the game, Larxene looked like she didn't mind him joining, and it was probably Marluxia that told her it would be a good idea to prove where Axel's loyalty lies, hence, the idea of killing Vexen. Now Larxene seems smart, and I'm sure she wouldn't let her own opinion of him get in the way of their preparations. She's not that trustful, after all. Notice how the reactions of Larxene and Marluxia differ when Axel came back from his murder. While to Marluxia it is proven that Axel is in their side and just took it without revealing much, Larxene commented that they didn't think he had the guts to do it, but then acted like she never doubted him in the first place, or like he proved something to her. She went straight towards him, looking all glad, touched him in the shoulder, and practically spelled it out for him in plain letters, with Marluxia gving the tidbits here and there. Barely even.

I guess she was naïve to believe that he was honest in it all. But like I said before, it wasn't such a waste. Axel did prove, or rather, hinted, that he did care. In a way.

And of course I'll check it out. And you're making me blush xP. I don't know much about Larxene, some are only theories that are derived from the facts or actions given.