D23 Coverage: Kingdom Hearts 2.5 HD ReMix confirmed!

Krowley · Oct 14, 2013

Today in Japan, the D23 Expo took place and the twitter feeds have been buzzing non-stop. aibo_ac7 has been giving frequent updates and offered all the good news the event had to offer. TSome unseen footage was shown of early Kingdom Hearts scenes from the series, but do to the policy on no cameras, nothing can be found as of yet. (Apparently, Sora had orange pants though!)

A lot of laughs were had and good times all around, but one of the biggest scoops for worldwide fans, would be the confirmation of Kingdom Hearts 2.5 HD! Like the 1.5 collection, it will feature HD remasters for the following three games; Kingdom Hearts 2 FINAL MIX, Birth by Sleep FINAL MIX, and Kingdom Hearts Re:coded. No release date yet, but it has been confirmed to be distributed in 2014 for the Playstation 3. according to the Playstation Blog.

Official Square Enix website for Kingdom Hearts 2.5 HD ReMix has been launched.

Debut Trailer can be seen below with English subtitles! The title is shown as "Kingdom Hearts II,5 HD ReMix."
Credit to Libregkd for the find.

libregkd · Oct 14, 2013

...

DualBladeRoxas · Oct 14, 2013

OH COME ON!!! They are REALLY wanting me to buy a PS3 -_-' Right now I'm praying to God that I can stream this game over the PS4

A Zebra · Oct 14, 2013

Just feel like I should point out that those graphics aren't going to actually look like they do in the trailer.
That said, higher quality models for TAV exist and were used in DDD, additionally, since the game was downscaled from PS2, relix of that probably exist
But what I REALLY want, is capes
Please give me capes

Explode · Oct 14, 2013

hatok said: ↑

Just feel like I should point out that those graphics aren't going to actually look like they do in the trailer.
That said, higher quality models for TAV exist and were used in DDD, additionally, since the game was downscaled from PS2, relix of that probably exist
But what I REALLY want, is capes
Please give me capes
Click to expand...

I'm looking back at their appearance in 3D, and they look the same as in BBS to me. What's different about them?

Also, what makes you think the finished product won't look like this? It's not like they are still renders that they showed for 1.5. Everything appears to be running in the game's engine, and it's not like it looks so incredible that the PS3 can't handle it. If anything, I see them making improvements to more textures as time goes on, like we saw in the first collection.

And capes would be nice, I guess. But I really doubt they'll add it.

A Zebra · Oct 14, 2013

iwantedtoexplode said: ↑

I'm looking back at their appearance in 3D, and they look the same as in BBS to me. What's different about them?

Also, what makes you think the finished product won't look like this? It's not like they are still renders that they showed for 1.5. Everything appears to be running in the game's engine, and it's not like it looks so incredible that the PS3 can't handle it. If anything, I see them making improvements to more textures as time goes on, like we saw in the first collection.

And capes would be nice, I guess. But I really doubt they'll add it.
Click to expand...

The easiest comparison to make is Aqua, look at her hair, it's much higher quality than it was in BBS.
As for the quality thing, I've never done a comparison myself, but anecdotally what other people have said matches with what I've seen. Stuff like textures that still don't look that great in the HD remake being upscaled just for the trailer... the example I'm recalling off the top of my head is when Ansem/Riku tries to steal Sora's heart at Hollow Bastion
And they'd better add the capes. It would take very little effort, and unlike most other changes; it'll actually resolve the plot hole of the laziness that is the BBS intro

libregkd · Oct 14, 2013

...

EvilMan_89 · Oct 14, 2013

even though i knew this was coming, i'm glad we have confirmation. also, the graphics do look noticeably better, especially with Birth By Sleep. for KH2FM, i wonder if they will get the new scenes dubbed in English. i figure it's not too unreasonable since they got some of the voice actors to dub 358/2 Days and they will need to dub the Re:Coded scenes as well.

A Zebra · Oct 14, 2013

libregkd said: ↑

The video you linked isn't available in my country but anyway, that is not a plot hole. Just a continuity error.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you about including the capes though. I would like to see them added.
Click to expand...

I suppose. Very lazy continuity error to still use the capes in the cgi opening...

AzzyFox · Oct 15, 2013

I noticed they made a few changes in KH 1.5 ReMIX, like the camera control and the reaction commands in Final Mix, as well as the Roxas Keyblade cards in Re:CoM. Here are some changes I'm hoping will be implemented into II.5 ReMIX:

KH2FM:
-Mirage Arena accessible and playable with Sora in the KH2 combat system.
-Data Xion optional boss battle.

KHBBSFM:
-Keyblades that aren't flat.
-Kingdom Key variant for Ventus to wield.
-Way to the Dawn variant for Terra to wield.
-Mirage Arena multiplayer being much easier to do with PS3 Wi-fi capabilities.
-A way to easily switch to another character in lieu of resetting the console.

Explode · Oct 15, 2013

hatok said: ↑

The easiest comparison to make is Aqua, look at her hair, it's much higher quality than it was in BBS.
As for the quality thing, I've never done a comparison myself, but anecdotally what other people have said matches with what I've seen. Stuff like textures that still don't look that great in the HD remake being upscaled just for the trailer... the example I'm recalling off the top of my head is when Ansem/Riku tries to steal Sora's heart at Hollow Bastion
And they'd better add the capes. It would take very little effort, and unlike most other changes; it'll actually resolve the plot hole of the laziness that is the BBS intro

Click to expand...

The texture quality is higher, and it looks like they added a few extra strands to the model, but it's really not that much. If the PSP could handle it, the PS3 can certainly handle the marginal improvements. I don't really see why they'd go through the trouble of updating that much, getting it to work in motion, and then scrapping it for the final product.

You're talking about this trailer, at 1:18?

This kind of thing interests me (being a 3D animator and what not), so I've been paying close attention to the quality, and I haven't seen any quality degradation between the trailers and the actual game. You can compare that trailer scene to the one in the game at 19:45:

I don't see any changes in textures, and I haven't elsewhere. The only time they lied about the quality was when there were still images. The reason they could do that is because they were renders. In other words, instead of taking screenshots within the game's engine in real-time, they turned a single frame into an image, possibly taking seconds, or even minutes to process. On top of that, they may have even done additional photoshop tricks to polish it. That's why they had such nice crisp eyelashes and less-polygonal looking bodies. Incredibly shady that they didn't mention they were rendered images, but at least they didn't do it with the trailers. It would be impractical to do it for 1800 frames (30 fps for a one-minute trailer).

Unfortunately it may take more effort than you think. I don't know how Kingdom Hearts runs its secondary animation (ie hair, clothing, capes), but whether they hand animate it, or run a dynamic simulation and bake it to animation (more likely), there are plenty of problems to work out. Animation can take a while, and with simulations it can be difficult to make sure the collisions are working all the time (so that it doesn't go through the character), especially with fast motion. I know there aren't THAT many cutscenes where they have armor, but they would also have to do it for every single battle animation, for each character. And they would need to add it on Aqua's armor in KH2FM to keep continuity. If they're doing it from scratch, it could easily take a few months, what with having to model, texture, rig, and sim them. Not that I'm against the idea. I hope they do it, but it's unlikely. I'd say the only hope is if they had previously finished them for the initial release (animated and everything), but took it out because of the strain it put on the engine, BUT held onto it in the event of a re-release.

A Zebra · Oct 15, 2013

iwantedtoexplode said: ↑

The texture quality is higher, and it looks like they added a few extra strands to the model, but it's really not that much. If the PSP could handle it, the PS3 can certainly handle the marginal improvements. I don't really see why they'd go through the trouble of updating that much, getting it to work in motion, and then scrapping it for the final product.

You're talking about this trailer, at 1:18?

This kind of thing interests me (being a 3D animator and what not), so I've been paying close attention to the quality, and I haven't seen any quality degradation between the trailers and the actual game. You can compare that trailer scene to the one in the game at 19:45:

I don't see any changes in textures, and I haven't elsewhere. The only time they lied about the quality was when there were still images. The reason they could do that is because they were renders. In other words, instead of taking screenshots within the game's engine in real-time, they turned a single frame into an image, possibly taking seconds, or even minutes to process. On top of that, they may have even done additional photoshop tricks to polish it. That's why they had such nice crisp eyelashes and less-polygonal looking bodies. Incredibly shady that they didn't mention they were rendered images, but at least they didn't do it with the trailers. It would be impractical to do it for 1800 frames (30 fps for a one-minute trailer).

Unfortunately it may take more effort than you think. I don't know how Kingdom Hearts runs its secondary animation (ie hair, clothing, capes), but whether they hand animate it, or run a dynamic simulation and bake it to animation (more likely), there are plenty of problems to work out. Animation can take a while, and with simulations it can be difficult to make sure the collisions are working all the time (so that it doesn't go through the character), especially with fast motion. I know there aren't THAT many cutscenes where they have armor, but they would also have to do it for every single battle animation, for each character. And they would need to add it on Aqua's armor in KH2FM to keep continuity. If they're doing it from scratch, it could easily take a few months, what with having to model, texture, rig, and sim them. Not that I'm against the idea. I hope they do it, but it's unlikely. I'd say the only hope is if they had previously finished them for the initial release (animated and everything), but took it out because of the strain it put on the engine, BUT held onto it in the event of a re-release.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet the enhanced models in DDD are the ones being used, possibly with some modifications, and obviously with enhanced textures.

On the topic of the trailer, I really can't say more on the subject, I never looked into it myself in any serious capacity, so I'll just defer to you.

Months is a HUGE stretch. The capes would almost definitely be physics based in the gameplay, only being fully rendered in the few cutscenes they appear in. And considering Aqua's armour appears in the same game that Terra's armour does and Terra's has a cape, I'm going to assume that they intentionally didn't have the cape in KH2GM.
It would not take months for a dedicated team of animators to apply completely custom animations to all of the BBS animations (There really aren't actually that many)
I should amend this is a big "PROBABLY" because I don't know how Square Enix works internally, but from what In know on the subject, it wouldn't be that difficult. Especially for the type of cape they would employ, one that keeps most of its shape, and most likely doesn't consist of veyr many polygons.
Even removing THAT, keep i mind that the capes were REMOVED from the game, so the capes already exist in some capacity. If they still have the old data than it becoems completely trivial, but even with just some of it it wouldn't be that hard
(Personally, if I was going to do capes in BBS, I'd make a force roughly 1.5 times the size of the character's body that the cape collides with, ensuring that it doesn't get close to the body in the first place, and if it glitches out it'll still probably not be withing range of clipping... though I can't help but wonder how much Square would even care about clipping, especially for just a remake... from what I recall, Dissidia had a fair bit of clipping.. but Square Enix is a graphics whore... bleh, I dunno)

Explode · Oct 15, 2013

hatok said: ↑

I'm willing to bet the enhanced models in DDD are the ones being used, possibly with some modifications, and obviously with enhanced textures.

On the topic of the trailer, I really can't say more on the subject, I never looked into it myself in any serious capacity, so I'll just defer to you.

Months is a HUGE stretch. The capes would almost definitely be physics based in the gameplay, only being fully rendered in the few cutscenes they appear in. And considering Aqua's armour appears in the same game that Terra's armour does and Terra's has a cape, I'm going to assume that they intentionally didn't have the cape in KH2GM.
It would not take months for a dedicated team of animators to apply completely custom animations to all of the BBS animations (There really aren't actually that many)
I should amend this is a big "PROBABLY" because I don't know how Square Enix works internally, but from what In know on the subject, it wouldn't be that difficult. Especially for the type of cape they would employ, one that keeps most of its shape, and most likely doesn't consist of veyr many polygons.
Even removing THAT, keep i mind that the capes were REMOVED from the game, so the capes already exist in some capacity. If they still have the old data than it becoems completely trivial, but even with just some of it it wouldn't be that hard
(Personally, if I was going to do capes in BBS, I'd make a force roughly 1.5 times the size of the character's body that the cape collides with, ensuring that it doesn't get close to the body in the first place, and if it glitches out it'll still probably not be withing range of clipping... though I can't help but wonder how much Square would even care about clipping, especially for just a remake... from what I recall, Dissidia had a fair bit of clipping.. but Square Enix is a graphics whore... bleh, I dunno)
Click to expand...

It would depend on how many people they wanted to put on the team, assuming they want to add it at all. From what I remember, there were only two programmers who worked on the HD conversion for 1.5.

Simulating cloth can be grueling at times, and they would probably need cleanup animators to fix stuff that isn't working, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say it could take months, IF they start with nothing. Then again, I've never done video game work, and it's probably different from short film. For all I know Kingdom Hearts could have a REALLY good physics engine that doesn't need much manual tweaking. But whatevs. I guess we'll find out soon. Hopefully good news, but I won't be crushed if not.

EvilMan_89 · Oct 15, 2013

AzzyFox said: ↑

I noticed they made a few changes in KH 1.5 ReMIX, like the camera control and the reaction commands in Final Mix, as well as the Roxas Keyblade cards in Re:CoM. Here are some changes I'm hoping will be implemented into II.5 ReMIX:

KH2FM:
-Mirage Arena accessible and playable with Sora in the KH2 combat system.
-Data Xion optional boss battle.

KHBBSFM:
-Keyblades that aren't flat.
-Kingdom Key variant for Ventus to wield.
-Way to the Dawn variant for Terra to wield.
-Mirage Arena multiplayer being much easier to do with PS3 Wi-fi capabilities.
-A way to easily switch to another character in lieu of resetting the console.
Click to expand...

the KH2FM ones are extremely unlikely but would both be extremely welcome.

but i think they would edit the BBS keyblades to make them look better. i hope they keep the Mirage Arena multiplayer, that is the best multipayer that they did in the entire series, so the Wi-fi would be a welcome addition as well. i wonder how likely it is we'll get the Wi-fi in Mirage Arena.

i'm also willing to wager that they'll change BBS's controls to match the console ones, just the camera and lock on mechanics. now that they have another analog stick and another pair of shoulder buttons to work with.

~Clave Ensis~ · Oct 15, 2013

libregkd said: ↑

I have a feeling we'll get to see 3D on consoles in some form before KH3 is released though. It only makes sense. I'm not expecting KH3 before 2016 so there needs to be some kind of KH game to fill out 2015.
Click to expand...

3D technology is being improved and experimented with on a variety of devices, so I agree that 3D will eventually spread to other consoles. I personally think that it will make its way to the PlayStation one day. That would be an awesome day.[DOUBLEPOST=1381844759][/DOUBLEPOST]

Mewtwo said: ↑

I highly doubt it. There are just too many exclusive 3DS features to port it to the PS4/XB1 (unless they decide to remake it, which ain't happening considering KH3 is their main priority).
Click to expand...

So with DDD, I reckon they'll get it to the PlayStation someday, but no time soon. It's a very recent release - too recent for it to remade. Who knows? Perhaps they'll make a 3.5 remix and DDD along with KH3 will be in that.

DualBladeRoxas · Oct 15, 2013

Do I smell another contest coming on eventually? :3

Trizzle13 · Oct 16, 2013

BBS on freakin console!?!? Couldn't have asked for more. Freakin pumped!

DanceWaterDance · Nov 8, 2013

I think I'll take it, so I can finally play BBS (my PSP is broken)

Jin · Nov 8, 2013

I've mostly been waiting for an offical final mix 2 , rather than translation. Though I can emulate it at full speed it feels nicer to be able to play it on console of course I'm going to miss being able to use Emuhaste to play as Riku.

DanceWaterDance · Nov 8, 2013

I hope they'll fix Atlantica in KH2, if you pause when you are playing a fu.cking musical then you have to restart again -.-

Miles · Nov 8, 2013

DanceWaterDance said: ↑

I hope they'll fix Atlantica in KH2, if you pause when you are playing a fu.cking musical then you have to restart again -.-
Click to expand...

They did that on purpose because you could cheat your way through it by pausing.

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D23 Coverage: Kingdom Hearts 2.5 HD ReMix confirmed!

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