Crude, Offensive Lyrics in Hip-Hop Music

Specifically I'm thinking of a single group of artists here. A Group by the name of Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill Them All. I'm sure if you saw the VMAs you know of their leader, Tyler, The Creator. Well there's about 8 more of them. 60 more actually, but only 8 that do music.

Most of them are just as foul mouthed and offensive as he is.

I want to know how you, the people of KHV feel about these types of lyrics and the message they send. If you've never heard any of their music, I have some examples.

WARNING: EXTREMELY FOUL LANGUAGE WILL FOLLOW

[video=youtube;1TQ_zhK6SsU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TQ_zhK6SsU[/video]

First is the obvious song their leader is known for, Yonkers. Here are a few quotes:

Spoiler

"Jesus called and said he's sick of the disses, I told him to quit bitching, this isn't a fucking hot line"

Spoiler

"Fuck her, Wolf Haley robbing them, I'll crash that fucking airplane that ****** ***** Bob is in a stab Bruno Mars in his god damn esophagus and won't stop until the cops come in"

[video=youtube;u6Py7wxBVbs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6Py7wxBVbs&feature=related[/video]

Spoiler

"I'm not a rapper, or a rapist or a racist; I fuck bitches with no permission and tend to hate shit"

Spoiler

"Victim, victim, honey you're my fifth one. Honey on that topping when I stuff you in my system. Rape a pregnant bitch and tell my friends I had a threesome, If you've got a fucking death wish I'm a genie it'll get done"

[video=youtube;UGBlnCbFy38]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGBlnCbFy38[/video]

Spoiler

"Shoot that *****, make sure he dead. Shoot that *****, aim for his head. Kill that bitch and steal her purse. Call everybody in her phone if that motherfucker work"

[video=youtube;Re-iKOvz8LI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re-iKOvz8LI[/video]

Spoiler

"Three seconds it takes for her to turn blue with my hands around her throat, her arms stop moving, pulse stops, two in the back look confused as turn to tell em both not to do shit stupid"

And there's plenty more. Enough people enjoy this very sensitive content to make these guys as famous as they are right now. They're getting a TV show on Adult Swim next year. But there are also enough people that there have been protesters at their shows before. The LGBT community especially is against them because of their lyrics, and the word "******" and it's variations being used 213 times on Tyler's sophomore album.

He says he has no problem with gays and argues that ****** is what teenagers say these days to mean stupid or just to offend someone else, and it has nothing to do with sexuality(Which is very true) and there's many more little things like that I could mention here.

So KHV, how do you feel about such choice of lyrics? Should something so offensive be publicized and praised so much? Should it be shut down and censored? Or should this group of relatively young people be allowed to exorcise their right to free speech?

CLARIFICATION: I'm not talking about swearing, I'm referring to the numerous references to kidnapping, rape, murder, drug usage, criminal activity, misogyny, anti-religion, percieved mocking of homosexuality and encouragement of such things.

 

Another one is Over by Drake. It's not explicit-explicit, but it fits in the same general category.

Anyway, I'm going to have to go with yes and no.

On one hand, depending on the age group it's intended for, I can understand why they would do it, but on the other hand, there are always kids who could potentially accidentally see it, which some parents make a big deal about.

While, yes, it's wrong to swear in public, parents should educate their children about it without overreacting.

 

Please explain how Over by Drake fits into this category.

Also, this music is mostly listened to by kids and young adults. Like early teens to mid twenties. There's even kids that are like 12-13 in the group.

 

He says the F word pretty much after every lyric, which some people find offensive.

Listen to it for a while.

Warning! Inappropriate language!

[video=youtube;iv7PrIsQaM4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv7PrIsQaM4[/video]

 

Ironically I had a test on the First Amendment today.

Under that Amendment, speech in any artistic medium is protected, including written, lyrical and otherwise. This is sot of like the same situation as the "R-Word" thread. I think as long as you don't say if offensively (i.e., calling a mentally ******ed person a ******, calling a gay/bisexual/lesbian person a ******), it shouldn't matter too much, considering that the meaning behind the word in contemporary times has changed.

That being said, I don't think Tyler or anyone else should be censored solely because of the content, as they are first of all protected under the First Amendment, and they're also a different sound to the stuff we hear on the radio a lot, and that's what makes them unique to me. And censoring that just because of some words that aren't meant to be taken with offense just seems a bit silly to me.

 

Unless you are harassing someone with what you have to say, following them around and subjecting them to it forcefully, specifically on their own property, then it would be wrong of them to harass you, follow you around and tell you what you can and cannot say or do on your own property. Treat others with equality.

 

I'm not talking about swearing, I'm focusing more on the actually content. Read the quotes that I had in spoilers. They're almost all about rape or murder or against religion.

I agree with this. Tyler has yet to come out and call a gay person a ******. The DJ in the group is actually a lesbian and they have homosexual fans and he's said many times that he doesn't have an issue with gays. Their entire group has said many times that their lyrics are entertainments, but some people will never let go of their views on what is and isn't appropriate to entertain yourself with.

But then again, they sometimes do say a lot of those things just to be offensive. But it's only because they know they'll get a reaction. It's like kids picking on each other in high school, which is fitting since most of their group is fresh out of high school.

Good philosophy. If only people lived by this.

 

I think my view on this was addressed well by Sforzato in the R-word thread

So I personally don't find the words to be offensive and to be honest, I could care less about them. I've never been a fan of excessive swearing in works of art such as music or literature though to be honest. But it isn't because I find it to be wrong but because after a certain point, I just can't take whatever the person is spouting out seriously if an f-bomb is being dropped every other word. Using the word "fuck" as an intensifier like "This is fucking ridiculous" is one thing but using it excessively just makes it loses its meaning and feels like it's there just because vulgarity seems to be cool nowadays.

 

I don't really mind. Though I really don't like Hip-Hop lyrics, because so many songs are just stupid lyricwise. However, as far as swearing go, I really don't care.
As long as it adds to the lyrics, be it descriptively, emotionally, amount of force, etc.
I don't like lyrics like "fuck fuckity fuck fuck" though.

 

Are you saying that you do not like Reggie Watts? He said almost exactly that in a song parodying the industry.

 

Others can listen to what they like. People can do what they like in the private of their own homes. Even if I dislike it personally, I believe that they have the right to do as they wish. That said, I do not listen or enjoy this sort of music. To me, I feel that the swearing and scenarios presented are not used for emotive effect or for a deeper message, and are instead purely used for shock value. I would go so far as to say that they glorify racism, misogyny, murder and rape. Perhaps I'm simply closed-minded, and don't see the intent or the beauty in their inclusion in the music.

Whatever the case may be, I do not. I am not averse to the presence of such concepts in music and other media, but I dislike the approach most hip-hop takes towards it. Ultimately, my conclusion is to live and let live. Certainly, I'll listen to hip-hop from time to time, but I won't appreciate it in the same way that many others do.

 

If it is used in a parodic fashion, I would definitely enjoy it. But then it is used as a humoristic tool. I quite enjoy parodic and humoristic songs, though I can't recall hearing Reggie Watts (I probably have, I just can't recall it).

 

Can I just say? I've been loving Tyler since I first heard him. Something about it, can't quite place it. It's a guttural thing, though, something primal, visceral, yet also surreal. And maybe I secretly also slightly like him because the video for "Yonkers" apparently freaks Makaze out. :P And it doesn't surprise me AS is picking him up for a show. Those two are a good fit, I'd say.

Having listened to the other two, though, I'm not impressed. The elements aren't aligned, some are flat-out missing. Tyler's much better.

I need to refine this. The point applies just barely, as what we're dealing with now is not quite the same. Firstly, calling someone a ****** is a far cry from calling oneself a rapist, to name one example. People may feel threatened by Tyler's lyrics and behavior, and those with no call to feel threatened may still be disturbed that he is receiving not only pardon, but recognition for what should be repulsive.

To this I answer that only the hardest literal interpretation infers that Tyler is as openly beastly as his lyrics suggest, and I think it's far from the truth. I believe one or more of several things is true: The lyrics are figurative. The lyrics describe only urgings, and the attempt is to identify with the listener and force him/her to confront his/her own ugliness. The lyrics describe behavior which is in Tyler's past, and he is airing out his pent-up frustration in a non-aggressive way. Any or all of those, really.

But frankly, none of that matters. Because it is art. It is music, and thus art. It is thus not only protected by freedom of speech but most likely not entirely true to life. Fans of Tyler and his group are not fans of rape or violence or suicide or insulting the gay community or any such; they are fans of the message. The message is not so straight-laced. There are layers to it: if not intentional ones put there by the songwriter, then interpretive layers. Thus we return to the previous point, only refined and reinforced: No one ought to be offended by something they have the right and freedom to interpret.

Granted, I could be wrong. I wouldn't know the difference if Tyler or any of his crew had the experience to put into their lyrics. If that's so, first off, they are doubtless paying for it in one way or another. Second, that doesn't mean their music is going to inspire a generation of thieves, kidnappers, and murderers. Sheep who thieve, kidnap, and murder, perhaps; but sheep tend to be dumb enough to get caught, so they'll be an afterthought soon enough. In the meantime, let's us sensible people read deep meaningful expressions of confusion and frustration into this psycho who's just rapping about his sick hobbies. It works no matter what, really, long as people are sensible about it.

As for the swearing... Well, I'll say to that what I'd say to any words in danger of overuse: A skilled writer chooses his words carefully. Everything is deliberate. Is Tyler skilled? I reckon he is. All I've got to offer there is my opinion, though.

 

Some guy I dislike on facebook posted something by Tyler yesterday. Strange coincidence.

I don't care what people lyrically use most of the time. I just don't think lyrics like the ones you've made an examples of should even be considered successful music.

People can say what they like in their lyrics since it's theirs, but you'd think that when people start saying stuff relating to murder, rape, theft, racism, discrimination, insults and so on that in music that it wouldn't be successful. But it is. And when something is successful, it means it has fans and support, people willing to say they like it and will likely imitate it.
That is what I can not stand, that people are willing to support shit like that.

I mean the word nigger, for example, is such a frequently used lyric by modern day black singers and rappers. I listen to alot of songs containing that word, but it's a difficult word for me to accept. I'm white, by default even thinking about the word ****** makes me racist it seems, but it's so readily accepted in music, when in reality I despise the use of the word in conversation. How can such an offensive term be so readily accepted to a mainstream audience?

The use of the term ****** is such a word I despise that I replace it with something else when I listen to music containing it. I mean, occasionally I'm singing the (great) song 'Fu*k You' by Cee Lo Green to myself, and the line: 'Oh sh*t she's a gold digger, just thought you should know nigger' and I didn't like it at all. But after so long of listening to the whole song, my mind changed the word to 'better' and subconciously i've turned the whole line into 'just thought you should've known better'.

That's how much I hate the use of the word. And I so wish the word was used a lot less in music.

 

Aware of how speech is protected, I don't know. I don't like hearing shit like what you had in the spoilers. Like how they're taking advantage of the First Amendment. It's kinda like saying to someone "you can have a party," only to find out your house is burning down when you come home. I don't mind swearing, just some words. Like, ehm, nigger. I like Cee Lo Green's Fuck you, but it's just that one line with the word I hate, which is why I'm using listening to Forget You.

 

Honestly, I can see why people see it as them glorifying such things but Tyler himself looks at it from more of a movie writer approach. He writes songs about Rape and Murder, channeling serial killers and telling stories as if he was them. He's really just a kid with an interest in things most find to be unacceptable. He promotes rape, misogyny and such not to ACTUALLY promote those things but instead he claims its to send a message of doing whatever makes you happy.

I agree with this completely. Well said.

People support his lyrical content because people relate to it. If you've never thought of committing a serious crime, killing yourself, and wanted to take out your anger on someone in a harsh way then congratulations to you. But Tyler and his group make a type of music that appeals to people who have all probably thought of the things he mentions before and the fact that he raps about them is appealing because none of us will ever do it, but at least someone gives us something to relate to. It's a form of art the same way that Horror films are, accept with a bit of a role reversal. Instead of relating to the victims and good guys, we relate to the "villians" of society.

And as for the word ******. The word has evolved. It's like saying brother, or friend, or person. We took a word used to degrade and offend us and made it something completely new. That's nothing to cringe at, that is something everyone should take pride in, no matter what your race. I say people should be happy that the people that word was used against have gotten past it and made it something relatively more positive.

 

It's still considered derogatory, because if a caucasian person calls an african american ******, there will be an outcry, and you will be labeled racist. (I'm not saying it goes for every black person, but the majority would react that way.) If white people can't say it, even if they don't say it with offense in mind without being "judged," it hasn't evolved. (In my opinion, at least)

 

Tsk tsk tsk. PaW, I just addressed that above!

In summary: Tyler is probably not serious. I'm willing to bet there's a deeper meaning behind the lyrics, such as releasing pent-up frustration or capturing the ugly, unspoken urgings of everyday people. Even if he is serious, the only people who will be inspired to commit the acts he describes are likely going to be stupid and careless, get caught, and be out of our misery soon enough; the rest of Tyler's fan-base is probably made up of sensible people who like his music for the deeper meaning.

PaW, don't be offended for someone else. It's just not kosher. xP

In all seriousness though. I addressed this in the R-Word topic. The word only has the power you give it. Without someone to affirm its definition, it defines nothing. In another world, nigger means "apple." What's so offensive about an apple?

That's a pretty out-there method of promoting being comfortable with oneself. I like it. I like it a lot. I wish people weren't so selective about recognizing irony and implicature. It only has a deeper meaning if the literal one isn't offensive, right?

100% truth. Although I only use nigga to mean brother or friend; as for the er variant, I follow the Gin Rummy philosophy.

By white people. :L

 

I was quite offended by the lyrics in the spoilers but I don't think it should be censored, I believe that people have different tastes and so they can listen to it if they want.

However, I do think that children of ages 12 should listen to this sort of music, it just seems quite horrific and especially if they are repeating it and unconsiously taking it in then it's possible to psychologically affect them. But you can't completely stop children listening to it as they may just enjoy it.

I know that people shouldn't take offense when words aren't intended to offend but people still do get hurt by these lyrics so even without intention it's still bad. I suppose their revolutionary since you don't usually get music like this, that may be why they are so popular.

 

You may consider it to be artistic, but I don't. Art is beautiful, even the art of madness and insanity has it's own beauty. But I don't see much art in this. Brutality, the concept of revelling in the 'power' of rape and murder, is not beautiful to me. And offensive art is a niche, and hidden, undiscovered by the mainstream so only those who seek it will find it. But this is very clearly public and promoted. I can not fathom how such a perverse idea is so readily accepted by people.
And at the end of the day it's just not my cup of tea but it will continue for a time. But as all things are this will be forgotten and lost in time.

What can I say? I'm an empathetic person of all ethnicities, because in the end it will not be considered White history or Black history, it will be our history. I am sorry for what humanity does to each other. I am sorry for war crimes, for rape, for infanticide, for genocide, for the pleasure people take in fulfilling those horrid things. I may not have done anything like that in my life, but as a human I am responsible for what my species does, both good and bad. Basically I have some twisted outlook on my life and the world, I know, but ah well.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop going on with bull. You say that ****** is just a word, but it is in words that we define ourselves to the world, and only through their meanings can people hope to communicate effectively. It's the whole reason we have a set language that's shared between us, to be able to understand one another and why when we encountered other people with different languages we are wary about these people, since we think they are possibly being deceptive of us.
So I can't just ignore the implications of a word that could be considered deregotary language to some.