Creationism vs Evolution

:lol: , i know, but there are fossils.

Evolution takes Millions of years to happen, and the changes happen so slowly that we dont know that they've happened. There is plenty of evidence to support the fact that we evolved from Chimps, some noticable , some not. Go research evolution, instead of talking off the top of your head. Heres something things that have learned:
-The Archeopteryx, the first "Bird" was found during the time of the Dinosaurs
-It was feathered, but was Cold-Blooded, like all reptiles.
-It could only glide, and not fly.
-It was a reptile
-The cause of this was EVOLUTION! How else could have a Reptile grown feathers?

The birds that we know today look nothing like reptiles but:
-Reptiles are more Primitive than birds
-The bird heart is very similar to the reptile's
-The Reptile heart is less advanced then the Bird Heart.
So all together we can conclude that:
-Birds appeared after the Reptiles
-Birds EVOLVED FROM THE REPTILES
-Reptiles are more primitive

 

This is why we do not find good people to debate from the Creationist side of things. There are misspellings, insults, and a lack of information on what Evolution even is, but boy do the assumptions run. I hate to use this as an example, but perhaps you'd like to talk civilly, explain your side rationally, and also do some research. That way we could debate this in a much more formal pattern. The only people I see do this are the extremist Christians that won't even -touch- a book on Evolution and make a stink about it when it is even slightly brought up in schools. Before an argument can be done, a debate be proper etc, it is usually a good thing to actually research BOTH sides of the coin, rather than staring at one in bright light for so long you go blind. That message is for Creationism and Evolution supporters. It seems though, one side doesn't as much need to be told this.

In actuality, your statement of we look/act like gorillas and chimps is amusing. We do share some common similarities to them, and this includes you. You might just be surprised at the similarities between especially humans and chimps, as well as bonobos. Chimps can do some light tool work, they have structured societies, they mourn their dead, they will now and then kill and eat meat, though usually they are vegetarians. They also can be taught to about the equivalent intelligence of a human 2-3 year old when in captivity, learning to communicate, follow directions and they have feelings that are broader than that often noted in the animal kingdom. Bonobos can spend considerable time walking bipedal. The manual dexterity of an ape's hand is similar to our own.

However, this does not mean we -are- chimpanzees or gorillas. It means we came from a species of ape that evolved. All animals and plants evolve. It is a process that can occur quickly through a mutation, or slowly over a period of millions of years. The human evolution line is just one of trillions of evolutionary studies which cover aquatic life, insects, birds, mammals, lizards, flora and fauna etc. Look up nearly any animal and you can see records of the earliest findings in science journals or heck, even Wikipedia. The point here I try to make is that there is nothing wrong with supporting one side or the other in a debate, but it truly does help to actually have information on both sides of the fence instead of merely one. That way we can all talk about it. I hold nothing against those that wish to believe in Creationism. I have seen some good posts by some and they are fine. However...then I see posts like this which just shows you haven't bothered to look into it at all. If you aren't researching the topic and are just going with what you -were told- by someone else, and make nasty comments, it makes all people on that side look ridiculous. It just solidifies the view that there -is- no proof because the words come from someone who -sounds- very uneducated, whether it's true or not.

The post that followed this one was just fine. So please don't think I mean this to 'all Creationism supporters' because I do not. I just wish more would respond as that person that followed did, and some others had.

 

I have just thought of a possible way of explaining evolution to creationists. I remember seeing a diagram which showed the evolution of the Christian Church. I have just realised that it is in fact quite similar to biological evolution. The Church split into different shards, each with their slightly differing beliefs. Those that had a strong following survived, while those that couldn't speak to the people failed and died out.

Also, the modern day manifestations of the Christian Church are probably completely different to the original starting point.

I shall try to find this diagram ^^

EDIT: Found a diagram here.

 

You know, Bunterx, that's just a brilliant observation. Even the religion has changed and adapted to times, which would be an evolution of its own. So true. That just earned you rep.

 

I believe, more or less, that evolution did happen, simply orchestrated by God. While I do believe in God's existence, the theory of us simply popping into existence has always seemed ridiculous to me. Also, the evidence for evolution is far to much to ignore.

 

Not to be rude, but you said "logically", let me point something out.
When you REALLY get down to it, the beginning, in creationism OR EVOLUTION are both ILLOGICAL.
It just happens that I'm Christian, so I'm going to prove my said to the best of my abilities.
Now, when you look at the Law of Conservation of Energy, you'll see that Energy can NOT be created nor destroyed but what would that say about the world being exploded into existence and creating everything?
Now, not to say the Christian version makes sense, I'm not saying it does, I'm just saying, to me, it sounds easier to understand.
I have more points by the by.
Reply if ya want to hear 'em.

I have to agree with this person, he/she puts in a GREAT point!
I do believe we changed over periods of time, I just don't believe there was NO GOD in it.

 

It was not an explosion even though the theory is called the Big Bang. It was an expansion. All of the matter and energy in our universe was contained in one small space. Outside of this there was literally nothing. The edges of this space were the edges of the universe itself, there was literally "nothing" outside of this. No space, not time, NOTHING. All of our dimensions expanded into this nothingness and continues to do so to today and beyond.

 

But what was before that?
What started THAT energy?
What sort of FORM did that energy COME from?

 

The universe is, well, infinite. It is just there. There is no scientific explaination (as far as I am aware, please correct me if there is) as to where matter and energy cam from.

Although there are theories that state that universes are created when black holes are created, at the end of each one is a new universe. This could be how ours was created, but it still doesn't define a definite start of anything. There will be no way of knowing, it happened so very far in the past it would be impossible to discover.

Also I would like to point out that just because science has yet to explain something does not automatically mean that there is some form of higher power. Magic started out as unexplained science.

 

Yes, but can you, seriously, say for every miracle, there's scintific knowledge?

 

Miracles are supernatural meaning they are outside of nature meaning they are outside of the laws of physics meaning they are impossible. Also, yes quite often there is a scientific explaination. But there are also things out there that can't be explained which is why im agnostic and not full blown atheist. There is so much mystery out there, science is just a light to help us see through the mystery and try to make sense of it all, to add a bit of order to the chaos.

Really religion and science offer two ways to the same end, to try and explain everything around us. To try to make sense of it all. One uses a higher power the other uses scientific method.

 

and then there's a different road in the center that makes use of BOTH.
(Christian science for the win)
And, I've seen miracles performed at my church...I don't see how people can ignore it.

 

Define "miracle". Many people will interpret events differently, and that is where one of the problem lies with religion, people interpret it differently.

As for Christian science, is that the belief in God through the use of scientific method?

To make this at least a tiny bit on-topic, one thing that bothers me about creationism (the Christian theory) is that why did God decide to create life in the first place? He couldn't have been bored, curious, lonely or just being random as God does not have random thoughts. What benefit would he gain from creating life? Also, if God created the Earth, what was the point in creating the rest of the universe? All of this seemingly pointless and redundant creation doesn't seem like something created by a perfect being.

 

It would be very easy to just explain everything with God, but it is not something I personally believe.

I could be very pedantic right now and ask you where God came from :3


You have faith in your religion xD but I see little evidence in the creationalist theory, whereas I have SEEN evidence that supports the theory of evolution :3

For sure, we cannot explain everything with science, but we are still learning. Afterall a couple of hundred years ago we didn't even know oxygen existed.​

 

Evolution is scientifically provable.

Religion (almost 100% of the time) isn't.

They are entirely different in my eyes.

 

It wasn't so much that we didn't know it existed, it was more we knew something was there, we just couldn't explain it. We knew it was there because we could see its effects through the wind and feeling something come into our bodies when we breathe. That is the start of scientific method, the gathering of evidence through observations. Then empirical testing and experimentation can take place to gather more evidence. Unfortunately nothing can ever be proved, only disproved.

 

My my someone's changed their tune quite a bit since the last thread. I seem to remember that you thinking Evolution was an idea you couldn't grasp because it was 'ridiculous' that we came from monkeys and that the evidence Evolutionists had gained were 'forgeries' and 'frauds'.

I had a teacher who thought like this in High School. She believed in Evolution of life and the Universe but she believed that something set the ball rolling.

It's a nice compromise but you have to have some faith in the something to agree to it. Something that I presently don't have.

Moving on...

"Seeing is believing". It holds true here. You have seen these so-called miracles at your church but I may see it as people being influenced by suggestion. It's like when a hypochondriac reads an article in a newspaper about a new illness and thinks they have it because of the symptoms or when in a counseling session, the patient is being subtly influenced by the questions the counselor is asking them.

It holds true for any organized religion. The children brought up in the religion are influenced by their faith...which is not always a bad thing of course but I'm going off on a whole 'nother debate here.

 

Yes we knew something existed, but we did not know it was oxygen, the point that you just made trying to dumb mine down has only re-iterated the very point I was trying to make :3

Just because we don' understand everything yet, doesn't mean that we wont.

^^​

 

Actually, what I meant was, a tumour disappeared in front of my eyes.

 

And that is the only argument you can bring forth in response to my post?

Tsk tsk. I know you can do better than that.

Again, I say that this 'miracle' you saw was only a miracle to you. Someone else can interpret that miracle as something else. Be it mass hysteria, mental illness, force of suggestion, etc.